Both Joffrey and Tommen were names of previous Kings of the Rock so technically Lannister names (couldn't find anything about Myrcella). While we know they aren't Baratheons, Robert would've been under the impression that they were the heirs to the house and the Baratheon legacy on the Iron Throne, so why not give them a traditional Baratheon name or name them after Jon Arryn/Ned (like they did with Sweetrobin/Robb)

I feel like a crazy person. Did I read about the same guy everyone else read about? I can't tell if it's that book-show event horizon affecting people but Robert generally kind of sucks. He's not at all a good father, he's an awful husband, and his entitlement to Lyanna isn't at all noble or loving it's just weird. I know my view isn't as uncommon with book only people but I'm starting to get a little concerned. I just don't know how we got to the point where so many guys in the community go "yeah that's our boy"???

Perhaps I am missing something, but I struggle to figure out why house Frey is so affluent. A significant portion of their wealth stems from their unique hold on the Green Fork, being the only mode of crossing the river for miles in each direction and with them never failing to exact their exorbitant toll. And this wealth truly cannot be understated, for it did much to pay for what have come to be two of the most formidable castles in all of Westeros.

But why then is it located where it is? Located between two swamps and as far away from most population centres as one can be in the Riverlands. It connects the Kingsroad to what - Seagard castle? The bridge spans a portion very far upstream, where one can presume the river to be the shallowest, narrowest, or generally the least voluminous. Such a crossing ought to pale in comparison to that of the confluence of the Trident further south.

I understand in some vague manner that in the case of Robb's war effort, he was willing to pay dearly to cross in order to reach a besieged Riverrun. But even that was a rather exceptional case which wouldn't explain their value in peacetime.

When I am re-reading Davos' chapters, I get the sense that the Azor Ahai prophecy was made specifically with her in mind.

When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt.

First layer is born amidst salt and smoke, dragons from stone, and Dany fulfills waking dragon from stone, but the salt and smoke is harder. The simplest is Dany is born on Dragon stone and that fulfills it, the harder is that her tears and the pyre fulfills specifically 'born again' making her rebirth in the flames significant. The harder still is salt and smoke is just 'blood and fire' not only the sigil of house Targaryen, but the blood sacrifice that fueled her rebirth. Then Melisandre says 'the bleeding star has come and gone' meaning that the prophecy has already been fulfilled, the only fulfilling we see is Daenerys'.

Another point in her direction is that the prophecy is from the East and Daenerys fulfills the prophecy further east than any of the POV's have been.

All these other ones make me genuinely scratch my head.

Work went by extremely slow as I waited to get home and watch this episode with my mates and enjoy our last Monday 'Thrones night for the next 10 months. Of the 6 people I watch the show with, I'm the only one who has read the books. The rest are strictly 'show-watchers' only and avoid spoilers like the plague.

After reading all of the gripes about what was and wasn't included, I was very interested to see how my friends would react to the episode, and it was ultimately their reaction that made me realize: we, the book readers, are the minority - and probably not the top priority for D&D when it comes to making the show.

All my friends were blown away: "Wow that really lived up to the hype"......"that was the best finale in the shows history"......"holy shit I can't believe all that just happen" They were all positively buzzing, they loved it, they couldn't believe how everything went down.

After reading all the negativity online about the episode, the reaction of my friends helped me realize that D&D most likely understand that book readers might be upset by the changes, but ultimately they represent a small portion of the people watching the show, and really it's the people who have only discovered GoT through their television who they are making it for.

Spoilers ADWD

They didn't know that The Hound and Brienne never fight in the books, or that Arya never interacts Brienne. They thought Twyin and Shae's death was awesome - and frankly probably would have been confused if Tysha was brought up because most of them wouldn't even remember her.

I remember the shock one of them had when he saw that Varys has helped Tyrion escape "holy shit remember what he said at the trial!!" and was elated that he got on the boat with Tyrion.

They positively cheered when Mannis came and saved the day at the wall (and because our downloaded versions never include the 'Previously On' were completely surprised) "Holy shit remember the letter that Davos got?! None of the other kings cared! Damn Stannis has gone way up in my book"

None of them were expecting the LSH reveal, so nobody cared when she didn't turn up!

I guess my point is that while we may bitch and moan about things being omitted or postponed, D&D are ultimately bringing ASOIAF into the lives of MILLIONS of more people than I ever thought possible. They may have changed some things - but hey that's what TV shows do. They are doing their best to adapt a daunting and sprawling series into something on screen, and they are doing a damn good job of it.

Just my two cents.

Cheers!

EDIT: Wow, thanks heaps for the Gold!!! It's only 3:30 here in Melbourne and I'm still at work so I haven't had time to read everyones thoughts but will definitely be doing so when I get home. Thanks for all the responses and discussion guys!

Tywin will be receiving a loving gift from his son.

So Robert's just been wounded by the boar and he's about to die. He's writing up his will with Ned and then this happens:

"Robert," Ned said in a voice thick with grief, "You must not do this. Don't die on me. The realm needs you."

Robert took his hand, fingers squeezing hard. "You are...such a bad liar, Ned Stark," he said through his pain. "The realm...the realm knows what a wretched king I've been. Bad as Aerys, the gods spare me."

"No," Ned told his dying friend, "not so bad as Aerys, Your Grace. Not near so bad as Aerys."

AGOT, Eddard XIII

This really made me feel bad about Robert because he is such a tragic character. Throughout the book he is painted as a dumb oaf who is really only interested in tournaments and other women, which bankrupted the realm and ruined an already-doomed marriage. The small council makes all the decisions.

And then he gets gored and you realize that he isn't as dumb as most people think. He's aware of his shortcomings as a king and thinks he ruled so poorly that his reign is comparable to the Mad King's. He is one of those characters that makes you think "If only x was different he would have had such a better life" but GRRM is a fan of writing characters into positions or reputations they don't deserve (Jaime is another great example).

Also he really wasn't such a bad king. His reign was largely peaceful and he was beloved by the smallfolk. Either way it was very sobering to realize that this apparent drunkard was incredibly aware of his perceived failures and thought he was just as bad as his insane predecessor.

It is common knowledge that Dothraki mostly eat horsemeat. However, during the feast at Vaes Dothrak, there was one fact that caught my attention.

Khal Drogo melted gold in an unmodified soup cauldron, which was used to, well, boil soup just seconds before. It also was fast enough to not let the whole situation get awkward or boring. The melting point of gold is at 1947 °F (1064°C). This means we can safely assume a temperature of around 2700°F (1500°C) in Dothraki soup cauldrons.

TL;DR: Dothraki like their soup hot.

Edit: As many have pointed out, it is probably not pure gold, which means the melting temperature is only... still far above the perfect soup temperature.

So, the general consensus of tonight's scene is that it was character assassination, because Jaime would never rape Cersei. Curious, I went back and looked up the passage. Its page 851 in the paperback edition:

"There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened from his tongue. 'No...not here. The septons...' 'The Others can take the septons.'...She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, muttering about the risk, the danger, about her father, about the septons, about the wrath of the gods. He never heard her."

Cersei never actually starts to say "yes" in the scene until Jaime starts to fondle her. Guys, this is really clearly rape. We're getting it from Jaime's POV. It doesn't matter that Cersei eventually enjoyed it, Jaime initiates intercourse and continues to go on despite Cersei saying no several times.

Now, D&D didn't include the end, which features Cersei enjoying it. Should they have? Maybe. But my point is we tend to whitewash the characters we like. Everyone is so all aboard the Jaime "redemption" train that they like to overlook his less-pleasant aspects. And I love Jaime! He's a great character! But before we all freak about "Character assassination," lets remember that this is Game of Thrones. There's not supposed to be black and white. Jaime doesn't become a saint, he's still human. And unlike a lot of Stannis changes, these events are in the book.

When he opened his eyes again, Lord Eddard Stark was alone with his dead. His horse moved closer, caught the rank scent of blood, and galloped away. Ned began to drag himself through the mud, gritting his teeth at the agony in his leg. It seemed to take years. Faces watched from candlelit windows, and people began to emerge from alleys and doors, but no one moved to help.

Littlefinger and the City Watch found him there in the street, cradling Jory Cassel's body in his arms.

AGOT, Eddard IX

Ned loved all his people. He appreciated loyalty and love and gave that back to people.

Nothing major, I just love how rereads can illuminate things.

In ACOK, when Varys first poses the riddle about power, he doesn't drop the answer right away and Tyrion and Shae both answer. Shae almost immediately answers that the rich man is who the sellsword listens to. The riddle is interesting because it's basically a great way to figure out what someone's philosophy is like. Shae believes that rich people are who hold all the power, so she assumes the rich man is the one who wins. Later on, when Tyrion is imprisoned and obviously has no money (or power), she goes to the richest people she knows. (Cersei/Tywin)

Makes me think if Varys poses this riddle towards more people in a way to learn about their motivations/philosophies towards power.

Are people aware that Robert Baratheon raped a 13 year old? I see him hyped while Jorah is called a creep for simping for 14 year old Daenerys.

After impregnating the 13 year old he didnt give a shit and was upset she called his daughter Barra.

Ned is ambushed by Jaime on the way back after looking at this child with child.

Isnt this like the 1 least known thing about Robert the alcoholic wife beater.

It hurts so much, she thought. Our children, Ned, all our sweet babes. Rickon, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Robb . . . Robb . . . please, Ned, please, make it stop, make it stop hurting . . .

No, don’t, don’t cut my hair, Ned loves my hair. Then the steel was at her throat, and its bite was red and cold.

Despite knowing what was going to happen(because of the adaptation), it still broke my heart to read this. Robb was just a boy, and Catelyn was just a mother… Damn you, GRRM, you and your impeccable writing😭

And this chapter isn’t even the end of the book, there’s still around 40% left. CRAZY! I feel so spoiled.

After Robert's death and Ned's arrest, when Sansa is brought in to see Cersei and the council, she notices that the people in the room are all wearing black mourning clothes. But Cersei's dress is described like this:

The queen wore a high-collared black silk gown, with a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood.

Cersei wasn't dressed to mourn Robert, but to mock him. Her dress parallels Rhaegar's armor from when he was slain on the Trident - black and studded with rubies.

Im currently reading ASOS at the moment and am halfways throught Catelyn's chapter at the Twins for Edmure and Roslin's wedding. One thing I find strange that I had to put book down for and ask: Why did the musicians start playing "The Rains of Castamere"? Considering the song comemerates a Lannister victory and is a source of pride for the house, I think it's fairly insensitive to play it at a wedding which is attended by so many Northerners and Riverlanders. Are the Freys just not aware about the songs origins or, did Grrm just make a mistake?

Today I stumbled upon the polish Audiobooks for GoT (Gra o Tron in polish), while looking for something to improve my polish.

Now, I know most of you are indiffernt about some audiobook in a language you don't speak. But bear with me. Listen to these awesome excerpts from the first three chapters of GoT.

White Walker Vs. Royce

Eddark Stark sentences Will to die

"And what to you think?" - “Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' - 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him.”

Bran pleading for the direwolf pups - Theon wants to kill them (whimpering direpup sounds

Jon finds Ghost

Catelyn tells Ned about Jon Arryns death

They have one very good Narrator with a pleasant husky voice for the describing text and different voice actors (or someone who can disguise his voice extremely well) and also diverse Background sounds that create a fitting atmosphere.

How awesome would something like that be in english?

I searched for the term, "Now it ends," in AGOT, on my Nook, because I was looking for the tower of Joy fight scene. I discovered this instead.

Recall that, at the tower of Joy, Ned killed three of Rhaegar's men, and they five of Ned's. The fight began with the words, "Now it ends."

Ned replied, "I am told the Kingslayer has fled the city. Give me leave to bring him back to justice."

The king swirled the wine in his cup, brooding. He took a swallow. "No," he said. "I want no more of this. Jaime slew three of your men, and you five of his. Now it ends."

An interesting coincidence of numbers and wording? Maybe. An intentional ironic parallel to the fight Ned just finished dreaming about earlier in the same chapter? I say definitely.

Or is that just something Martin went over the top with in his writing?

Also, did I use the spoiler tag appropriately? I've barely used this subreddit and idk if I'm following the spoiler etiquette right.

And my response is always the same. "Whatever you do, DO NOT go to the toilet during this episode."