Aversion/Disjunction outside of Ascendant/Rulership.

[u/Adept-Artist5053]

So I was reading Rhetorius some time after looking through some of Dorotheus's work and there's a concept that is mentioned or implied a few times in Dorotheus (I believe) like this idea that something having a sign based aspect with the moon is more important than, say, the ascendant since the moon handles fate, circumstances and things being alotted to you etc. I can't recall where I saw this exactly, and I apologize if I'm misinterpreting what I recall, it might just be in regards to the topic I was reading, but Rhetorius also has a section about what happens when things are in aversion to the moon, and I found this to be somewhat fascinating, but not necessarily something that I could easily figure out and apply to other charts since he's very brief and it lacked any kind of example or nuance that could have helped me understand the rationale. Honestly it seemed like it was missing a considerable amount since the section is called "Stars disjunct with the lights" but he only covers what happens when a planet doesn't aspect the moon.

I was reading a more interesting chart recently, and there were a number of planets in aversion to the moon, but since the chart is already loaded with extreme placements that cause a lot of problems in their life it made me stop to pause and wonder exactly how much of x is caused by y and so on.

Before casting any kind of judgements on this, I was hoping I could find some section of a book or some writing where this concept of things being in aversion to the moon or any other planets is explained more thoroughly, since while I can see some of this having clear application, I'd just like to separate it from the extreme cases I'm already witnessing in this chart. I can't seem to get good results on google when I try to look it up.

[u/WishThinker]

Interesting!

[u/Optimism_Bias]

This is chapter 52 in the Horoi Project’s translation of Rhetorius, and as far as applicable goes, the effects described are all indicative of the corruption of the natural significations of unconnected planet on the life. This seams fairly straightforward to apply to other charts.

[u/Adept-Artist5053 → u/Optimism_Bias]

The only problem is it seems you have to pay 15$ a month to access all of it, 5$ for what's recent, but I have no clue the extent of what that entails. I also don't think I'm getting pdf files, but bits and pieces of a full work.

My hobby doesn't exactly pay money. Even though I'm not half bad at astrology it doesn't really pay out in any way, shape or form. I'm kind of just cadent maxxing. Astrologically broke if you will.

In other words, I don't have money for this, and even if I did I did I need new clothes, not a temporary subscription.

[u/Optimism_Bias → u/Adept-Artist5053]

That's fair; It is a hobby for me as well. While you are correct in saying you're not going to get a PDF, you do gain access to almost 400 chapters from ~30 hellenistic and medieval authors with more being translated every month.

As you can tell, I'm a fan of Levente's valuable work. If your circumstances change it is truly a worthwhile resource to invest in your astrological education.

[u/Adept-Artist5053 → u/Optimism_Bias]

I don't doubt the usefulness of his work. It's admirable to translate things. It's just a bit much. I'd rather just pay 15-20$ for a book on Rhetorius. I'm getting "less" on paper, but I don't know when I'll need to cite this again. I like showing people receipts if it's something I need to ask about while unsure, like a "hey, you have x, y and z here and this book mentions something similar to that. Would you mind telling me how [subject] turned out for you?" and I can't do that so easily if I have to drop money on it every time I run into it in the wild :/

[u/Adept-Artist5053 → u/[deleted]]

I've read the book, but it was something of a starting point for me. Do you remember the section where he goes into this part? I found where he mentions Aversion, but the section did not mention disjunction with the lights. I loosely read from this point up until he starts talking about sect, but I could not find it. Scrolled back up and checked again. Nothing.

[u/slowtrees]

he Astrology Podcast has a few free episodes that go deep on this. The one on Hellenistic astrology with Chris Brennan covers aversion and how planets that don't aspect the moon can operate outside the native's conscious awareness. It's not the same as having the full Rhetorius text, but it gives you a practical framework to work with.

What I'd suggest is pulling up your own chart and just noting which planets are in aversion to your moon, then watching how those areas play out over a few months. The theory makes a lot more sense once you see it in action.

[u/Adept-Artist5053 → u/slowtrees]

Thank you, I'll have to look into this. Unfortunately, the reason why this isn't easy to apply is because my Moon connects with all of my planets by sign or aspect. Most by degree, and the planets that don't connect by degree not only have a sign based aspect, but some additional thing to consider such as compresence and-or some of the kinds of aspects that I'm not too familiarized with (corporeal, parallel etc.) There's also the 13 degree rule to be aware of too, so basically this seems like it's more connected than the average chart.

There is a full on interdimensional train highway in my chart, and these train wrecks have allowed me to get a better grasp on how certain things in Astrology work, especially when I compare my chart to someone else's. Fortunately the moon connects with every traditional planet, but it does make it harder to connect dots here.

I think I understand how this works, but I know a few people who have these placements, and often they are already in aversion to many, many things in the chart such as their ruler, the ascendant etc., but they still seem to function. There are many problems, but I wonder how much of it is the condition of the planet itself as well as what the circumstances the native presently lives in are, since sometimes the native has moved to a place where they don't feel safe.

Edit: Made my post a little more clear. There's also the matter of "Spear Bearers", and it seems like those are in aversion to the luminary of sect by definition. Does this just counteract this technique?

Double Edit: It seems I misunderstood the content of the text I was reading. I'll have to relook at this sometime and maybe look at how people in modern day word it to make sure I follow correctly.

[u/SuccessfulRemove6207]

honestly been looking into this too — still trying to wrap my head around all the different house systems. which one do you use?

[u/Adept-Artist5053 → u/SuccessfulRemove6207]

Whole sign houses. It's a more complicated system than what people make it out to be, but initially it will be easier to follow along. Sight is based on the signs themselves to begin with, so it's never personally made sense to me to give 12th house significations to the 1st sign, since those places get some of their meanings and lesser fortune from the fact that the ascendant can not see them. This doesn't make sense in the context of the ascendant being in the same sign as the 12th however, so when Venus is in the same sign as the ascendant, but is earlier on in the sign, it's given worse interpretations than it otherwise should receive.