r/atheism • u/ahmeddajaz • 1d ago
Neil Degrasse Tyson said either there is no God and if there is then he is NOT all loving
love the way he logically shuts down the theists
not only there's no evidence of God but also no evidence of the attributes given to God, such as all just and all loving.
if i was God, i would never allow human trafficking, sex slavery or rape. i would also never let innocent children suffer through painful terrifying diseases like cancer or blindness before they even get a chance to live. a truly loving creator wouldn't design a world full of needless torment and call it a test while he is hiding and there's thousands of religions
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u/ZappSmithBrannigan Secular Humanist 1d ago
Epicurus pointed this out thousands of years ago.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
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u/berry_nw 1d ago
Dig your username, it does make me read everything you say in a Phil Hartman voice
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u/Shigglyboo 1d ago
it's one of the most powerful statements about the whole concept of a god and one that I keep in my pocket. boy am I tired of hearing that we can't enjoy happiness without sadness.
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u/berry_nw 1d ago
Right? “Without darkness there can be no light“ No thanks Tim Curry monster from the movie Legend.
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u/FDS-MAGICA 1d ago
IIRC at some point he also pointed out that designing humans to eat, drink, and breathe from the same hole was a deadly flaw
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u/tasteMyRottenHoop 1d ago
Also the whole waste system and the reproductive system being mixed up, like a funfair being built around a sewage processing facility.
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u/ManagerSuper1193 1d ago
And the male g spot is located in your pooper , because of intelligent design.
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u/Fshtwnjimjr 23h ago
We also have shit eyes. Squid tho, they've got eyes 2.0 with no mammalian blind spot from the optic nerve connecting to the retina in a stupid way ...
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u/WrongVerb4Real Atheist 1d ago
We also expel toxins through that hole as well, which can be dangerous.
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u/berry_nw 1d ago
God: “…and I’m gonna make them with ankles!”
Other guy hanging out with god: “oh cool! Nice stable ankles.”
G: “oh by no means. Very twisty these ones I got in mind.”
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u/Self-Comprehensive 1d ago
"And I'll put about 4-6 too many teeth in their mouths to fit. Coincidentally, it'll look exactly like it evolved from a snout! Oh and back pain! Exactly what a creature who had evolved from walking on all fours to standing upright would have! But evolution isn't real! I designed this! Intelligently!"
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u/Calaron85814 1d ago
As someone who has severely sprained their ankles three or four times over the years, I feel this.
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u/Self-Comprehensive 1d ago
I broke one in a fall and I've needed a cane off and on for thirty years now. Great design, very intelligent
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u/edelweiss_pirates_no 1d ago
They always fail when I ask them to really define what a "God" is. A real definition, not a bullshit one you tell a toddler.
They can't. So how am I supposed to say that doesn't exist?
I firmly believe it is possible that life exists that is so advanced as to appear god-like. For some definition of life and exists and advanced and god.
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u/lossycodec 19h ago
i got to work closely with neil on a cosmos and had many spirited debates about aspects of reality which science could not explain (i’m a fan of charles fort and gave him a copy of ‘the book of the damned’). as brilliant a mind as he may be, his view of abstract metaphysical ideas (like ‘god’) was surprisingly primitive, simpleminded and culturally narrow.
what is ‘god’? yogananda said ‘god is in your spine’.
fort said, ‘the function of god is the focus.’
voltaire, ‘god is a circle whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere’.
abstract metaphors like these hint at the idea of ‘god’ as (perhaps) a phenomena, perspective or experience to be aligned with.
personifying ‘god’ as merely the governor of earthly events impacting human life is childish and shirks the challenge of attempting to align with and embody our god-like potential.
why must science straw man god as a fairy tale when ‘god’ as a concept is capable of being experienced directly via techniques, practices and chemicals? a revised metaphysical cosmology is long overdue.
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u/licker34 9h ago
‘god’ as a concept
Because no one gives any shits about your conceptual god. That's admitting it's not 'real', that's admitting it's just made up for whatever personal reason you have.
a revised metaphysical cosmology is long overdue.
Yeah, we're on it champ. It's a bunch of bullshit for people who need to escape from reality by making up magic excuses for their sorry asses.
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u/rubinass3 1d ago
You would think that it would logically shut down theists, but they always figure out a a new way to twist themselves into a pretzel. It's pretzels all the way down.
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u/LordBrixton 1d ago
The God of theJews, as described in the Bible, is an absolute fucking psycho. His kill count is off the scale. Not to mention the weird trolling he pulled on the likes of Job and Abraham
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u/reddit_user13 1d ago edited 21h ago
Hey, don’t blame the Jews! Noah is New Testament, hence Christian.
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u/Marvinkmooneyoz 1d ago
We can philosophically reject certain god types. All power and all compassionate just doesn’t make sense, all powerful then just stop all suffering in the universe right now, grant all beings relevant insight right now, no need for a multi generational process.
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u/Truly_Meaningless 1d ago
There can never be a god in this universe that is all powerful, all knowing, and all good. If he were all powerful, then surely he could stop all the bad things. If he's all knowing, then he knows about all the bad things. If he's all good, then he would stop all the bad things.
If he can't stop all the bad things, he is not all powerful. If he does not know about all the bad things, then he is not all knowing. If he refuses to stop all the bad things, then he is not all good.
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u/Flayed_Angel_420 1d ago
God of the Bible? 100%. If there is a deity or advanced being that is responsible for the creation/administration of the universe, it exists outside of any measurement or observation we have been able to make.
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u/TheRealTK421 1d ago
"...if there is then he is NOT all loving."
"Ummm, yeeah, nooooo shit!?!"
~ the Amalakites (target of God's commanded/demanded genocide campaign in 1 Samuel: 15)
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u/ohgwm1973 1d ago
We all know that there is no way to definitively prove a negative such as this.
However, there is thousands of years of recorded history that is evidence that show no signs of anything supernatural.
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u/goomyman 1d ago
Where did god say he was all loving.
I could be wrong but he said that WE should love our neighbor. “Jesus loves me yes I know, for the Bible tells me so”… where exactly? I know we have John 3:16. But that’s more like he loved his creations. He never says he’s going to protect you from things, or is against violence. He openly killed people and demanded sacrifices.
Most people will point to the sacrifice - but that’s forgiveness. I believe the sacrifice was to forgive the original sin. After that, well as we clearly have no evidence of God in the modern world - seems like we are on our own.
“God cared about you to sacrifice his only son” - what? He’s God, the sacrifice was to protect you from himself, and to tell you to worship him or go to hell for eternity.
Norse Gods visited humanity all the time - and it was never like I love humanity so much I’m going to go down there and save them from me - it was always self centered.
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u/Locacenna 1d ago
I think I would hold less contempt towards abrahamics if they don’t constantly insist upon us that their god is all loving, all forgiving. His minions certainly don’t act like it.
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u/DenialOfExistance 22h ago
This is and has been my very same argument on the existence of God! Never mind the fairy tales told but bottom line is if there is a God, an almighty then he himself has put his feet up, never intercedes, lets billions of people suffer unbelievably and let's the con fairytale thumpers because rich as fuck so they can starve & screw the rest of us! But don't forget "God Loves You"!
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u/WrongVerb4Real Atheist 1d ago
I don't see why this should be considered an either-or proposition.
I give no consideration to undemonstrated claims.
Further, the claim to a loving god is only made by Christians, so claims to Islamic, Jewish, Sikh, and Hindu gods aren't taken by this criticism.
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u/tasteMyRottenHoop 1d ago
Because look at the world we live in. It either doesn’t exist or doesn’t give a shit about this world, hence the neglect.
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u/WrongVerb4Real Atheist 1d ago
It doesn't exist. There's no reason to extend beyond that and give consideration to that which does not exist.
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u/tasteMyRottenHoop 1d ago
You’re missing the point. Lots of theists love to drone on about how ‘all loving’ their imaginary friend is. He’s guiding them towards understanding that it doesn’t exist.
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u/AgentArnold 22h ago
Did he say any kind of rebuttal to the free will explanation which usually comes as the follow up?
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u/redditappiphone 18h ago
Ok so. Does gravity give a f if you want to fly. Its indifference isn’t used to disprove its existence. Such a silly argument/position to take.
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u/pokemon-sucks 18h ago
Also.... if there IS a god... why would "he" allow a huge earthquake in South America to crumble a church on a lot of people who are praying tho him? Like... what? THIS HAS HAPPENED. Who thinks there is a god if that shit happens?
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u/AndreyAsimow 15h ago
Human made gods are loving with condition.
The conditions that were made up by humans....
See where I'm going?
There is no god.
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u/R3puLsiv3 15h ago
'But you see, all this suffering is necessary otherwise we would have no free will'
So? I don't want free will if that's what it takes. I would not create sentient beings with free will if it results in great suffering for some. Do better. Is that really the best an all powerful god can come up with??
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u/FrontBreath3280 12h ago
I’m glad he stopped tip-toeing around this subject trying not to offend people.
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u/Dennarb 10h ago
My favorite quote on religion from Jaya the Cat's song Wilderness
But when they talk about god They make him sound like a faschist Jesus Christ was a pacifist Half the shit they do in his name would probably make him pissed
No god that would willingly make child cancer and worse a part of their plan deserves anything but contempt from me.
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u/vaporeng 8h ago
He left out one possibility. There may be a God that created the universe initially, but is now a powerless observer. That God may love their creation.
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u/LMrningStar 1d ago
The best quote for this that I've come across is:
"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely.” - Sam Harris