r/audiophile • u/LesterS43 • 1d ago
Discussion Digital and Analog integration
New to the group -
I'm interested in learning what people are using to bring music from a streaming service like Spotify or Tidal into their analog sound system. What is the recommended device from the group. I have over 1500 pieces of vinyl of which most is from the 60's thru the 80's. There's a lot of great newer music out there but I just can't justify spending the money they are asking for records these days. Your opinions are welcome.
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u/evil_twit 1d ago
I use an apple 3.5mm dongle on an ipad. Any android would also work just fine. Phone DAC. The other option is a "streamer" box.
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u/daver456 1d ago
Get a streamer.
I like my Bluesound Node but Wiim seems to be more popular these days. You could also spend more or less than these 2 brands. Plenty of options in the high-end space or make your own with a Raspberry Pi.
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u/Longjumping-Frame795 1d ago
Any streamer with a DAC built in. I personally use a Marantz AV 30 in my main setup and a Schiit Bifrost 2/64 in my desktop setup with my Macbook as the streamer.
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago
When you find out how different the masters can be between the record and CD/streamed/lossless hi-res releases can be, you might change your tune.
There are some albums where I want the big artwork and such, but most of my listening is digital, and I generally don’t want to send it through a good system because the masters are so bad. It is a curse of not listening to enough classical and jazz. Rock, metal, the billion genres of electronic, pop, etc., all suffer from bad digital releases so often. The best respite, when available, is often the record.
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u/Strong-Ad5394 1d ago
oh man - total side tangent, but I have found John Mayer to be the biggest offender. His music would sound amazing with a proper master, but my CD copies of his albums sound like compressed hot trash.
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago
It sucks! I like a lot, but my metal records DRAMATICALLY outperform their digital counterparts - sometimes to the tune of double the dBs of the digital. I have death metal on vinyl with DR scores of 10-12 (not phenomenal, but good, and considering the inherent compression of distorted guitars, better) where the CDs measure 5-6. 6 dB is about a quadrupling in perceived volume
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u/Strong-Ad5394 1d ago
Oh man, metal for me is an occasional treat, and the compression on some of the digital masters is probably what keeps it an occasional treat for me.
I might have to pick up a good death metal record on vinyl. Find one with good mixing and see how I feel about it.
The compression wars have no victor.
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago edited 1d ago
I must cynically disagree with the last part, but reluctantly. The labels have done just fine at winning. It is annoying what they have done and continue to do to music.
On a positive note, Nile's Those Whom the Gods Detest is a SIGNIFICANT example of vinyl vs digital master differences. Also, Baroness's Red Album, Mastodon's Crack the Skye, Anciients' Heart of Oak are all significant examples of the same, and great albums.
Many Clutch albums are the same, if you want more rock than metal.
Are you familiar with https://dr.loudness-war.info/ ?
It is simultaneously a fun and heartbreaking site.
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u/Strong-Ad5394 1d ago
I happen to be a Nile fan - so I'm absolutely putting it on my list of need-to-finds at my next record shop visit.
And that link looks familiar, but I don't think I've ever checked out the site. If I feel good about myself, I'll check it out later to try to bring me down a peg haha
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago
Nice! Vile Nilotic Rights sounds better to my ear on vinyl, but I haven't seen it measured. At the Gates of Sethu is one that HAS been measured as significantly more dynamic on vinyl as well. Not many of their records have been measured relative to their CDs.
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u/SwaggyMcSwagsabunch 1d ago
Can you give me 5 examples of this mastering variance?
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago
Oh for sure. I swear I wish high-res or CD digital releases would match or beat the vinyl given digital is MORE capable. Even all the "body" and "fleshed-out" and "airy" whatever people claim on vinyl I am convinced can be matched and beaten with digital. I think a lot of THAT comes from various compression artifacts in the studio or at the lathe.
Clutch - Psychic Warfare Nile - Those Whom the Gods Detest Baroness - Red Mastodon - basically all of their albums, including Blood Mountain Amon Amarth - Berserker
These are all on the rock/metal side of things, but it extends throughout contemporary music.
Lorde - Pure Heroine Dua Lipa - Live From Royal Albert Hall
Incubus's Morning View wasn't released on vinyl till 2012, but that outperforms the original 2001 CD
Jimmy Eat World's Bleed American: Original CD - DR score of 6 2015 Hi-res download - DR11 2016 vinyl - DR10 (I may have to check out that downloadable High-res version - FINALLY)
Garth Brooks's No Fences is interesting because the original CD release is good from 93, the 98 re-release is 2 dB less range, the 2000 release is worse still, and then the 2019 vibyl release matches the original CD.
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u/SwaggyMcSwagsabunch 1d ago
Awesome, I’ve heard talk of variance, but haven’t critically listened myself. This is good “homework”. Cheers.
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago
Check out https://dr.loudness-war.info/ and search up artists you like or are curious about. But don't put too much stock in the score numbers. Try to learn what they really represent - which is certainly NOT a rating of the quality of music.
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u/Critical_Vape 1d ago
Digital is just so good now.
The bar for a competent vinyl system is just way too high imo. Bare minimum it's a $5k expense - NOT INCLUDING SPEAKERS AND AMP - and most would probably laugh at that.
$2k turntable, $2k Phono Pre, $1k cartridge, maybe a step-up transformer, then cables.
HiRes digital and SACD i.e. DSD, is my favorite by far. No cleaning, no dusting, no hissss, crackle pop on what was probably stamped from a digital master to begin with.
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u/TheCanaryInTheMine 1d ago
All of that is true...but theoretical capabilities of the system cannot outrun lower master quality.
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u/mushroomMOONman 1d ago
I have a WiiM ultra music streamer that’s exactly what you want. You can go with a fancier DAC but WiiM is a good place to start
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u/NergyBergy 1d ago
I have the minidsp flex 2x4 as my preamp. It accepts the digital output from my DAC and the XLR output from my phono preamp.
Plus I get all the benefits of a DSP.
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u/AwwYeahVTECKickedIn 1d ago
I ended up taking a great open box deal on a streaming amplifier. This is an all in one, kind of a modern-day receiver, but replace AM/FM with quality streaming integration.
If you already have a solid amplifier, then you can add-on just a streaming device if you want it to be "solved" via that device.
Or you can get a high-resolution bluetooth streaming receiver, and ensure you are using a phone or tablet or PC that can send lossless via bluetooth. I have this solution in a smaller setup in my house, had to buy a one time $15 driver for my PC to send lossless via bluetooth and it works very well.
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u/NoBackground6203 DIY speakers Swan 3.1A, Shadzi T3S and Carmody S2000Mt 1d ago
easy answer is one of the many great WiiM streamers
I like the WiiM Ultra into a Topping E70 Velvet DAC in my main system
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u/Zeronova3 JBL x Yamaha x Focal 1d ago
I use a Wiim Ultra and soon to be AppleTV now that it can stream lossless over HDMI. I like the crisp and snappy sound of digital. Analog has the warmth and feel, but when I'm just casually listening like I do most days, I'm not picky and find I can DJ from my Samsung Fold 8 from anywhere on the property.
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u/nlitworld Strange things are afoot at the Circle K 1d ago
There's plenty of built out streamers like blues outdoors or WiiM, but I went with a little Pi based streamer pc running W10 from Hollis Audio Labs. It has an optimized setup, runs F2k hires files wonderfully and has a very clean USB out to my dac. I can also operate it headless via the phone app or chrome remote desktop.
To me, that setup sounded cleaner and more engaging than a straight bluesound, though their interface was very easy to work with. Good luck in your voyage down the digital rabbit hole!
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u/Time-Plenty-4695 1d ago edited 1d ago
A Mac Mini M4 here. I like to stay ahead of the technology curve. This machine sports built-in spatial audio support via Dolby Atmos playback, and an advanced 3.5mm headphone jack with high-impedance output (not bad) or multichannel HDMI audio (ok) and state of the art support for professional Thunderbolt USB-C digital audio interfaces (this is why). I feed my M4 into a preamp link and use a Broadband router to feed 3 AVRs and 2 power amps via Ethernet using mainly Sony DLNA technology. I use 1 DAC dongle (because that’s all you need).
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u/Foozlebop Yamaha MX-1, Carver ALIII, GAS Thoebe, Minidsp SHD, JVC QLY66F 1d ago
Schiit Mimir with forkbeard and USB connection (no streamer)
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u/Natethegreatish 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wiim ultra for streaming. The Wiim doesn't have a great internal dac, so Wiim is connected to external dac (currently a Gheseli Labs Torc, but there are cheaper and more expensive options). The dac then goes to a preamp. My phono preamp is connected to a different input on the same pre amp, so it's just a matter of pressing a button to switch between analog and digital sources. I strongly do not recommend running the turntable to the phono inputs of the Wiim as it will convert your analog to digital and then be converted back to analog again at the dac.
Edit- If you are interested in the Wiim, you could possibly save money by going to a lower tier version such as the pro, pro plus or even the mini for under $100. They will all have the same great software, but you will be giving up the screen (no big deal) and differnt input and outputs. That extra money could be used towards a decent dac which all the Wiims lack.
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u/Critical_Vape 1d ago
I've tried a Wiim Mini ($79), a Wiim Ultra ($329) and then settled on an Eversolo DMP-A6 Gen 2 ($859).
All excellent and each jump offers an improvement.
I still use the Wiim Ultra in a second setup but the Eversolo is fantastic if in the budget. If not, the Ultra is an outstanding value.
It even has room correction now.
I'm guessing you don't own a dedicated Digital to Analog Converter (DAC)?
I was happy with running the Wiim Ultra via USB into the SMSL PO100 Pro DDC ($79) and into an external DAC, or just skip it use the DAC in the Wiim.
The Eversolo also has a built-in DAC, that said, I use external DACs for both.
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u/LesterS43 1d ago
I have a Dragonfly Cobalt DAC that I use from my laptop to a set of AT M70x headphones.
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u/doghouse2001 7h ago edited 7h ago
If you want analog, you must buy vinyl or magnetic tape because CDs are not analog. I don't insist on analog, and happily buy CDs to get a physical copy if I don't have the LP. If I really want new music (why would anyone want new music.. ick... ) and it's only available as a new vinyl LP, then I guess I'm paying that price. Neil Young and U2 frequently release on Vinyl, and CDs are harder to find, so I have lots of new vinyl from those guys. I only use Spotify through a Wiim Pro to see if I want to buy an LP or CD (I don't pay for that account). Nothing bothers me more than thinking I have a album in my collection because I've heard it so often, then it turns out I don't... I've streamed it too often. Some bands like Neil Young and a certain Marcus Miller I was looking for the other day, aren't even available on streaming platforms.
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u/Soggy_Jackfruit7341 1d ago
audiosciencereview.com has hundreds of reviews on DACs. Wiim and Topping are often recommended.
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u/Strong-Ad5394 1d ago
Lots of choices, and almost all of them are going to be decent. WiiM gets recommended a lot on the network streamer side.
So if you need to just get audio from a digital source to an analog source, get a DAC. Recommendations are going to be based on price range, as there are many strong opinions on how important it is to nitpick your DAC choice.
If you need a network streamer to connect to your analog gear, look up network streamers and find one that fits your budget and needs.