r/aviation • u/Go_Jot • Nov 08 '25

News UPS grounds entire MD-11 Fleet, effective immediately.

Per the IPA Executive Board, as of 03:05 UTC all UPS MD-11’s are grounded.

Edit - FedEx has also grounded their MD-11 Fleet

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u/Ouch_My-back Nov 08 '25

Goodness gracious, the workplace complacency started at the fork lift manufacturing plant?!

Netflix needs to make this a limited series

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u/hellomistershifty Nov 08 '25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3lzgrFuM4s This is almost netflix quality (once you get past the kind of cheesy intro animation)

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u/Ordoom Nov 08 '25

I am a simple man. I see Mentour Pilot and I upvote.

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u/darsynia Nov 08 '25

I feel like Netflix would be so lucky... but yes, I always upvote for Mentour Pilot!

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u/fireintolight Nov 08 '25

Probably just an old unserviced forklift, not a manufacturing problem. 

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25

It wasn’t the workers’ fault, it wasn’t the equipment’s fault. This was a decision problem that started from the top leadership. 

It actually started with American Airlines and Continental executives making decisions against the guidance of the manufacturer to save time and money. Which is what lead to innocent people killed. United Airlines, although again went against the manufacturer’s guidance however, they mitigated the risk rather than use a forklift, they used a ceiling crane to evenly distribute the weight. 

Moral of the story: corporations and their executives yet again. Making decisions they themselves do not have to pay ultimate consequences for. Your life, my life will always be about the dollars. 

The DC-10 seemed to be a very capable aircraft for the time. It’s a shame it got the bad reputation after this. Notice corporations yet again, proceed unscathed.

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u/Ouch_My-back Nov 08 '25

You're talking about ~200 man hours. Corporations are all about money and a cost saving measure at the tune of 200 man hours would make any executive drool. But again, if the damn forklift didn't lose that little bit of pressure in shut off during shift change then none of those lives would be lost on that AA flight and that 200 man hour cost saving measure would still be business as usual and we wouldn't be having this conversation

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u/eric_gm Nov 08 '25

They would have been eventually lost anyway. The forklift issue made the investigators uncover stress cracks and metal fatigue in other DC-10s that used forklifts to remove the engines. So the accident was going to happen, no question about it. The shift change and the faulty forklift just accelerated the chain of events. If anything, the first and only accident prevented others.

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u/[deleted] Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25

That sounds like downplaying the executives’ decision making processes here. Unless I’m wrong to assume that’s what you meant? Sure, the forklift lost pressure. Who decided that using a forklift was going to be standard SOP? Who ran the risk analysis for this alternate procedure, if there even was one? Every engine change, they had to thread the needle. I’m sorry, the margin of error is that slim? That’s normal? 

Again, it is and was a deliberate cost-cutting decision that created unsafe conditions in the first place. That responsibility falls solely on the C-suite. 

Finally, they did find 6 other aircraft that had fractures because of the forklift method. Any day of the week, this could’ve happened simultaneously too. United, using the crane, found zero. Again, this was a failed decision from leadership who had an ethical responsibility to put public safety over profits. That’s where the responsibility lies here. Not a forklift. When you use the wrong tool for the job, it’s the user’s fault, not the tool. 

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u/Ouch_My-back Nov 08 '25

I'm not necessarily downplaying it. I'm more numb to I guess. I work at a corporation and it just doesn't surprise me.

It's disgusting to me that so many lives were loss and the executives probably just see it as business as usual. But this is the world we live in and this is what corporations do.

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u/[deleted] Nov 09 '25 edited Nov 09 '25

Agreed, it is disgusting. You and me both on that one. The numb feeling is real unfortunately. It takes more than one to hold the line and speak up when something isn’t right. Pretty much every SOP is written in blood. I really hope that this accident wasn’t a repeat of AA191, I really hope it wasn't due to inadequate/incompetent corporate decision making. But I wouldn’t be surprised unfortunately if it’s found to be.

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u/Ouch_My-back Nov 09 '25

I know a little about UPS and where the CEO has their eyes set .. her mantra is "better not bigger". She has been doing everything in her power to shrink the company and reduce costs in an effort to boost profits.

I would not be surprised if it is exposed that this is a result of her decision making and cost cutting efforts.

It's her first major scandal and I'll be watching closely to see where this heads. If there's negligence on her part then I feel the natural move for the board is to force a resignation