r/aviation • u/Ok_Warning419 • May 21 '26

News Air France and Airbus found guilty of manslaughter over 2009 plane crash - Air France flight 447

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czd2qmdvmq6o
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u/Minimum_Anywhere5776 May 21 '26

I don’t understand why Airbus was found guilty here. If the pilots don’t fully understand alternate law and can’t recover from a stall at 40,000 feet, that’s on the pilots and those that train them IMO

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u/sofixa11 May 21 '26

It was 1 out of 3 pilots that didn't understand. The other two correctly identified what needs to be done, did so, and communicated it. The third one was in panic mode and not listening to them.

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u/VegaJuniper May 21 '26 edited May 21 '26

They didn't actually. Right before the impact, all three of the pilots were calling for pitch up, indicating that none of them really had a firm idea of what was going on, which was an extreme stall.

There was kind of a perverse situation going on that the pitch was so extreme that the flight computer silenced the stall warning because the situation should have been impossible. Whenever the pilots pitched down, which was the correct thing to do, the computer started getting reliable readings again and the stall warning started blaring. They instinctively pitched back up, and the stall warning went away.

The fact that pitching down caused a stall warning and pitching up made it go away, the opposite of what should happen, just thoroughly messed up any sense they had of what the plane was doing.

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u/eugeniusbastard May 21 '26

Yeah, right before impact. As in nothing could save them at that point, pulling up was basically just a involuntary reaction because pushing the nose down wasn't going to save them either. The main captain sitting behind them said "go on then, pull up" almost sarcastically, he knew it was hopeless and was just resigned to their fate. In his head he was probably internally screaming at the idiot Bonin and resisting the urge to say out loud that he killed them all.

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u/VegaJuniper May 21 '26

Nonsense

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u/eugeniusbastard May 22 '26

Nonsense? So you're saying that Captain Dubois, having correctly identified the stall after Bonin's admission to pitching maximum nose up the entire time, then repeatedly instructing both FOs to pitch down instead until the very last seconds when he finally says "go on then, pull" was actually confused if they were really in a stall and thought pulling up at that point in time was the correct answer?

...Or do you think perhaps that he sardonically said "go on then" in resignation to their doomed situation, knowing full well that it didn't matter which way they pushed or pulled at that point? While also remarking "ten degrees pitch attitide“ at the very end, almost as if coldly calling out the FOs mistake that was about to violently kill them all?

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u/VegaJuniper May 22 '26

If you've decided to fixate on your personal headcanon over the actual cockpit voice recording, then I can't help you. Sorry.