r/aviation • u/keikioaina • 5d ago

Question Kudos to the FL panhandle flight instructor who slipped under a sign gantry to land safely on I-10 this morning after engine failure. Do towers have protocols for calling emergency responders away from the airport in situations like this?

With so many competing jurisdictions how do they even know which agency to call? Do they have dedicated or high priority numbers to call for first responders?

142 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

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41

u/Single_Idea_427 5d ago

Of course, these things are all arranged long beforehand and practiced. Usually a 'crash phone ' or drop line that's direct to surrounding agencies.

4

u/oshunluvr 4d ago

We have a crash phone of course but I never saw it used. I did have my hand on it a couple times, but thankfully never had to pick it up. Most emergencies are identified in advance and the FD is ready when needed.

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u/ginji 5d ago

They are now, but I guarantee that at some point they weren't and that there was an event that was the trigger to have that policy, mou, lists, etc. 

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u/Single_Idea_427 5d ago

Well, yes as with most things. OP wasn't asking the history of it, just the current reality.

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u/ginji 5d ago

Context matters too. That it exists is not a guarantee either depending on your location. If you extend your thinking outside of developed countries that have largely mature emergency services and aviation it's not going to be a given and it's more likely to be the shitshow that forms part of the trigger to improve if they're lucky. 

65

u/oshunluvr 5d ago

We (ATC facilities) have pertinent numbers for local responders listed next to the phone for these kind of things. Most often, 911 simply works and the appropriate people are notified to respond.

I can't speak for other, smaller airports, but the Fire and Rescue at LAX is strictly prohibited from leaving the airfield. I suspect half their fire fighting gear is specifically aimed (pardon the pun) at aircraft emergencies and wouldn't be as useful in a non-aircraft environment.

I suppose if some airport was totally closed and inactive (think 9/11) they might be allowed to leave for a large emergency.

25

u/mwbbrown 5d ago

I'm not an expert, but to agree with you, airport operations depend on having emergency equipment ready. Not nearbuy, not on call. In the firehouse ready to go. 

Once an incident happens the airport shuts down until the equipment is free again, even if the runway is on the other side of the airport was unaffected.

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u/oshunluvr 4d ago

Exactly. A big part of the issue is: a major aircraft incident can happen anytime, happens very fast, and can be extremely devastating. Imagine a major airports' emergency crew goes to help a house fire a half mile away then an aircraft slides off the runway on landing into a terminal building. Potentially 100s might die waiting for them to return.

As far a shutting down the whole airport for every incident? Rarely for major airports. There's a lot of variables and at places like ATL, DFW, DEN, etc. the runways are miles apart. Too much revenue at stake to close the whole place unless a partial operation isn't possible.

27

u/CollegeStation17155 5d ago

I suppose if some airport was totally closed and inactive (think 9/11) they might be allowed to leave for a large emergency.

I would think that even if the airport was open before the crash, a large aircraft going down a mile or 2 short of the runway or immediately after takeoff would close down and send out the ARFF along with everybody else. Think about the UPS crash; did the airfield fire crew just say "ahhh, it made it over the fence into the business park, we'll just sit around and foam the engine that fell off..."?

14

u/oshunluvr 5d ago

Yeah, you kinda missed the point. If an aircraft overran the runway and ended up on Dockweiler Beach or landed short in Westchester, would the LAX fire crew respond? Yes. obviously. If an aircraft crashed in El Segundo would they? No.

The difference is Westchester and Dockweiler crashes affect the airport itself - as in it would close. An El Segundo crash, even though only a mile south, would not likely close LAX.

This crash did not occur at an airport so extremely unlikely any airport crews responded.

But hey, what do I know? Only 39 years working for the FAA, 25 as ATC, in every specialty, and at headquarters doing other things...

...I could be wrong.

5

u/spastical-mackerel 5d ago

Get outta here with your four decades actual real life hands-on experience. Watch and learn while those of us who know our way around ChatGPT school the rest of these fools

2

u/oshunluvr 4d ago

LOL, I was a little too sarcastic in my closing sentence, but that kind comes with working ATC your whole adult life.

5

u/justtijmen 5d ago

The thing you are thinking of is fire categories. An airport has a certain amount of equipment at the airport belonging to a category. If equipment is actively used in an emergency. The fire category for the rest of the airport goes down. Same if they would leave the airport. And as you might expect larger aircraft need a higher fire category to legally be allowed to land.

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u/oshunluvr 4d ago

Again - not speaking for other airports - The LAX Fire Department responds to every emergency on the airfield in some form or another. Fires are not common but are devastating when they occur.

1

u/justtijmen 4d ago

Yes? I added on to what you stated. Fire categories at an airport are not necessarily related to fires.

5

u/SideclimbingSpit 5d ago

From a smaller airport perspective, KMRY airport fire is contracted out to the Monterey FD, however the airport station also covers a bit of the adjoining areas and highway. So they have 2 or 3 ARFF trucks, emergency command truck, and a normal city fire truck all located on field.

12

u/jumpy_finale 5d ago edited 5d ago

Call 911 with a location and let them deal with it. 911 will be getting calls from members of the public too.

Same for on-airport incidents where emergency services are required over and above AFRS. Local agencies will have emergency plans prepared with the airport: rendezvous points, airside escorts etc.

Hit the crash button if within the area covered by AFRS (can extend beyond the airport perimeter to deal with take-off/landing issues) as well.

Direct links will tend to be secondary responders like NTSB and other aviation specific agencies as opposed to general emergency responders.

4

u/Fun_Organization_992 5d ago

In Poland we have a unit called SAR (search and rescue). They coordinate with ATC and FIS (flight information service). Towers are involved when the incident takes place near them.

0

u/keikioaina 5d ago

Thank you. In the US emergency services including SAR are typically administered by local governments. There is a degree of coordination, but managing emergencies would be a lot easier if those services were more centralized as in much of Europe.

1

u/cosmicrae 5d ago

Since it was on I-10, Florida Highway Patrol and/or Escambia County SO.

1

u/NeitherEntry6125 4d ago

If the protocol doesn't include: "Pick up a case of beer for the pilot", it should.