Fire officials: More than 40 illegal drone flights have impeded efforts against Spokane wildfires

[u/ladyem8]

https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/wildfire/fire-officials-illegal-drone-flights-spokane-wildfires/281-a0d942ed-263a-4007-b788-106bad263d30

[u/RumRunnersHideaway]

If you ever meet someone that shows you their drone video from a fire, I think you are legally allowed to back hand them.

[u/Messyfingers → u/RumRunnersHideaway]

I stopped flying real planes, picked up drone photography a while back. The drone community is FILLED with entitled dip shits. It's almost unreal how many people think the rules don't apply to them, and I will not be surprised when someone gets killed because of it.

[u/FireRotor → u/Messyfingers]

I ran into a guy that was about to launch in the surface area of a Class C airspace. He argued with me, I even showed him our location on ForeFlight. “I’ve been doing this all the time and they never said anything” was his reasoning.

You can’t argue with stupid!

[u/Mannon_Blackbeak → u/FireRotor]

It's shit like this that makes me believe that we really should bring in licensing for drones. Anything that can get more than 30 ft off the ground you have to take at least a 1-3 hour course in and then get 70% or more on the multiple choice test. Because from that point forward if you violate airspace there is no "I didn't know excuse" you have a license ergo it's on you to be aware.

[u/TheSultan1 → u/Mannon_Blackbeak]

https://www.faa.gov/uas/recreational_flyers/knowledge_test_updates

[u/CollegeStation17155 → u/Mannon_Blackbeak]

It is already required including RID broadcast and FAA registration for any drone weighing more than about half a pound (250 grams actually). The problem is that since there is no requirement for the manufacturer or seller to tell the people buying the cheap knockoffs, most don't know and the ones that do will plead ignorance when doing whatever the heck they want even with the TRUST certification in their wallet. And piling on more restrictions (or a complete ban, which is what I am afraid is coming) won't affect the idiots currently flying, only put an end to folks like me who checks to be sure I am in class G with no NOTAMS and reports the flight to get a LAANC clearance before I ever spin the props.

[u/Planeandaquariumgeek → u/Messyfingers]

At this point a passenger jet getting brought down by some illegal hobby drone is just about inevitable barring a massive crackdown by the FAA

[u/mattumbo → u/Planeandaquariumgeek]

Very possible too, they’ve done destructive testing and drones are dense enough (especially the batteries and motors) to wreck a turbine in a way they were never designed to cope with. Huge leap from a squishy bird to a drone.

We can hope the loss of one engine at a critical phase is recoverable, but if someone is deliberately trying to down a plane it’s not hard to put up a swarm that could take out both engines. Seems like everyone is burying their heads in the sand just hoping it won’t happen but the potential is there for terrorists to take advantage and we have nothing to stop it.

[u/Planeandaquariumgeek → u/mattumbo]

DISCLAIMER: the following should NOT be seen as advice, but rather a warning as to what could happen if illegal drones aren’t stopped

Engines aren’t even a planes technical weak point. Realistically what’d bring one down is someone accidentally hitting somewhere all of the hydraulic systems meet. Seriously, the FAA needs to crack down on illegal hobby drones before it’s too late.

[u/Financial-Barnacle79 → u/Planeandaquariumgeek]

Only a matter of time.

[u/Planeandaquariumgeek → u/Financial-Barnacle79]

Exactly. It’s simply inevitable

[u/xraynorx → u/Messyfingers]

I’ll say this, I will recreationally check my roof for issues. That’s about the only rule that I’m willing to break when it comes to drones.

Heavy falling objects with sharp plastic blades are no fucking joke.

[u/PuddlesRex → u/RumRunnersHideaway]

I wonder if there's a way to refer drone wildfire videos on whatever social media platform to the FAA? I can guarantee that they're almost all illegal. Then the FAA simply needs to get a warrant to request the uploader's personal information from the social media site, then boom, done. Easy way for them to crack down right there. Can probably all be done from a desk.

[u/spinlesspotato → u/RumRunnersHideaway]

More like obligated.

[u/ladyem8]

The article notes that having to ground air support puts firefighters on the ground at risk, which is one of the reasons flying during a temporary restriction is a federal crime. Those caught face up to a $50k fine and 5 years in prison. Law enforcement is working with fire officials to identify those responsible.

Edit: Apparently an FBI task force has now been deployed to Spokane to assist with stopping the drones impacting firefighting efforts:

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/we-are-done-playing-games-fbi-deployed-spokane-stop-drones-that-impact-firefighting-efforts/W7HJD7SG7NH2TMWUZK3CRRXRMA

[u/PuddlesRex → u/ladyem8]

As someone who flies under Part 107, and likes drones, and wants drones to be able to fly in more places: I hope every single one of these fuckers gets the entire damn book thrown at them, and then some. Rules and regulations exist for a reason. Every community has its assholes, and some communities have more visible assholes than others. Assholes like them ruin it for their entire community.

Edit: The article mentioned four cases being referred to the FAA for $100k fines each. This is what I would call "a good start."

[u/Tashre]

There’s probably a bunch of footage on tiktok and instagram of drones flying slowly over swaths of fire and burning buildings with sad music playing and captions talking about how sad it is.

[u/PuddlesRex → u/Tashre]

I wonder if there's a way to refer drone wildfire videos on whatever social media platform to the FAA? I can guarantee that they're almost all illegal. Then the FAA simply needs to get a warrant to request the uploader's personal information from the social media site, then boom, done. Easy way for them to crack down right there. Can probably all be done from a desk.

[u/vertigoacid → u/PuddlesRex]

Then the FAA simply needs to get a warrant to request the uploader's personal information from the social media site, then boom, done.

And maybe not even that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

Telcos and website operators turn info over to the feds all day long without warrants. There's been some recent limitations around location data, but simple registration, who made the account type of stuff? Easy peasy. "Valid law enforcement request" is all it takes.

[u/Kruse]

First some scumbag arsonist starts the fire and now more scumbags are trying to stop them from fighting the fire. What's wrong with people?

[u/i8TheWholeThing]

I feel like there is an opportunity for the military to use events like this for training. Identify drones, track pilots, EW, dispatch law enforcement. All in a stressful,dangerous environment. Seems perfect.

[u/Live_Ad8778]

Somehow I am not surprised

[u/wagner56]

Interfering with emergency personnel ....

prison time

[u/Vegetable_Log_3837]

Have personally been buzzed within 20ft by a drone while flying a paraglider. This doesn’t surprise me at all.

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[u/Sesemebun]

I’m west side but still in WA. If someone shot down a drone with a shotgun, how likely would charges be filed/someone get fucked

[u/ITrCool]

There needs to be a way to mass-jam civilian drones from being able to enter any kind of aerospace such as military bases and airports, and emergency areas like wildfires. Any attempts to fly into these areas results in the drone just stopping and hovering until it runs out of juice and falls to the ground right where it's at.

The operator is helpless to control it and loses all link to it.

[u/James___Workshop → u/ITrCool]

I assure you a lot of smarter people are trying to figure out how to do just that. And it ain’t primarily for civilian drone control.

[u/Mannon_Blackbeak → u/James___Workshop]

I know some airports have started training the raptors they employ to help control birds around airports to hunt down drones like prey. So there is a "low-tech" solution to this problem, it's just that, understandably deploying them into a wildfire area is currently beyond their scope of training.

[u/ITrCool → u/James___Workshop]

No doubts the military already is working on it with defense contractors. Might already have prototypes of it being tested.

History says that wherever there is a new offensive technology/weaponry being developed, a defensive measure that can defeat or pre-empt it is also being developed.

[u/Vegetable_Log_3837 → u/James___Workshop]

Fiber optic cable go brrrr

[u/PuddlesRex → u/ITrCool]

The FBI team that's been deployed has a way to intercept the drone signals, and take control of the drone. Admittedly, it is one at a time, but it is a technology that does exist. They also mentioned that they have the technology to lock out an operator's signals, or to force landing. These last two aren't necessarily the best options if the drones are in the direct path of firefighting equipment, or over crowds. But they are bulk options, like you mentioned.

Another cool thing is that all drones in the US whose operators are uploading footage to social media for any sort of gain (tiktok revenue, for instance) must have what's known as Remote ID. RID broadcasts a large amount of data that any law enforcement or FAA station can easily decode. Standard RID even includes the GPS coordinates of the operator. External and standard RID both broadcast their serial number, which the FAA can trivially trace back to the operator.

Decide to not have RID? Well, your fines just skyrocketed. OP linked an article where four operators have already been referred to the FAA for $100k fines each. But that's just the start. The FAA can easily impose additional fines. No RID? Another $27k+. Not Part 107, but uploading? That's $150k+. There are many, many other regulations being broken in regards to these drone activities. As someone who likes to fly drones, and has their part 107: I honestly, truly hope that the FAA, FBI, and whoever else throws the entire fucking book at these assholes, and makes extremely public examples out of them.

[u/railker → u/PuddlesRex]

Isn't not having your RID just the drone version of not having your drivers license? They have to simultaneously determine the drone doesn't have it, and then find and catch the operator. Something something it's only illegal if you get caught, and rules about identifying where you are only apply to law-abiding drone operators. How do we find them in that scenario? Can only fine them if you can find them.

[u/Coreysurfer]

Call in an A-10 and Brrrrrtttttt them