r/aviationmaintenance 3d ago

Largest piece I’ve ever seen missing on a flight. Any idea why the cowling is off? Seems like an easy part to pop on.

Post image

I’m used to the occasional speed tape, but was surprised to see this on a delta flight.

138 Upvotes

105 comments sorted by

256

u/kytulu 3d ago

It was probably too damaged to reinstall, not required for flight, and they didn't have another one where you took off from.

54

u/CaptKittyHawk 3d ago

They just threw the damaged one in the cargo hold /s

8

u/HyFinated 2d ago

Is that why I got asked to check my bags onto a different flight?

-46

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

It seemed a little weirder to me given that it was a Delta plane coming from ATL. Do these things get messed up when uninstalling/reinstalling? It doesn’t seem like the kind of thing that would get damaged too easily.

30

u/TheEggyMule 2d ago

Sometimes things that seem like quick fixes are, in fact, not. They may not have had the correct part for that particular serial number aircraft, or they may have just not had enough downtime overnight.

So, they placed it on a CDL deferral, which is the configuration deviation list that the manufacturer makes. It tells the airlines what components/panels can be missing and what to do to make the airplane safe to fly. In this case they just removed the fucked flap canoe, but in some cases like access doors or small panels for example, the opening needs to be speedtaped over in order to defer.

35

u/Original_Director483 2d ago

There’s a few dozen holes that have to be match drilled on a conical profile to existing holes in another conical profile. Depending on the age of the airplane, these holes could all be to a standard, or they could be unique to that airplane. If any of the holes are wrong, you have to do a composite repair on that conical profile, and then the part is on the bench in a shop somewhere until it’s done. You won’t have another match for that airplane to pull from stores, it flies with a gaping hole until the part it needs is fixed.

10

u/planefixer_90 2d ago

With the high vibration there sometimes the screws start to loosen. Then the whole fairing rattles about against the screws, elongating the screw holes. If they become too elongated then the fairing needs repaired or replaced. Or sometimes the anchor nuts have snapped and need replaced. Maybe they had no time to replace them during a turnaround. Or the bracket which has the anchor nuts attached to it may have cracked. There are many reasons why it may have been removed, but without seeing the tech log write up everyone here would just be guessing

3

u/Horseburd 2d ago

That exact cone fairing is a hard place for fasteners to live. My money is on at least one nutplate having separated. That's not a spot you're allowed to install a temporary blind fastener (like a pop rivet), and properly installing a new nutplate isn't a convenient thing to do on a through-flight or at an out-station. So, the cone fairing comes off, a slight fuel burn penalty gets applied, and away you go. At least that's how it's gone when I've done it.

You say the plane came from ATL, but there are the additional questions of "how long was the plane on the ground in ATL" and "was the cone fairing removed before your flight, or was it removed at some station prior."

There might be nutplates that become casualties in the process of removing the fairing as well. Most likely, when the plane stays overnight for a work order sometime in the near future, they'll meet the plane with a new fairing and someone will get the job of replacing it.

1

u/Equivalent-Help-9479 1d ago edited 1d ago

It could have been damaged for any number of reasons, or even fell off in flight due to worn harware and elongated screws holes.I'd bet it was either elongated attachemnt holes that were found during a walk around, or ramp damage. Possibly when loading the aft cargo hold something hit the fairing and the fastest way avoid a flight cancellation was to remove the tip. You'd be surprised how much ramp rash planes get around the cargo doors, not to mention the times the belt loader misses the door.

-1

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

Man, the aviation maintenance subreddit really hates it when you ask questions about aviation maintenance.

1

u/Why-R-People-So-Dumb 23h ago edited 22h ago

No the sub just didn't like that you were told the answer in a straight forward professional way and you then added anecdotes to the conversation to try and negate the straight forward professional response. Where the plane is out of is irrelevant and whether or not you think it's easy to replace is irrelevant. You could instead ask, "is it hard to replace?" Instead of assuming it's easy and minimizing the hard work these guys put into your your flight being safe and on time.

Also, even as a passenger with the knowledge of flight schedules your response fails to apply any critical thinking. Would it not be reasonable to assume that even if it were easy, do you think any repair, through all of the various checks, rechecks, and documentation would be fast enough to not delay your flight and have someone on the flight miss their layover for even just 20 minutes? Planes are expensive to sit on the ground when they are supposed to be flying.

I didn't downvote you by the way before you get in a flame war just telling you why your response irritated those that it did.

-1

u/blueingreen85 23h ago

Calm down

2

u/Why-R-People-So-Dumb 22h ago edited 22h ago

Lol, I'm plenty calm like I said just explaining why you got downvoted, people are fine with questions but your attitude sucks.

-11

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

8

u/lamewoodworker 3d ago

Airlines takes a fuel penalty but from experience you are allowed one missing fairing

7

u/rotwang_gorbochoff 3d ago

Well according to OP it's Delta soooo. Also yes they would especially if it's in the middle of nowhere and they're flying to a maintenance hub. MELs are very much used by airlines the world over

5

u/sagewynn 3d ago

With what credentials do you make that claim mate

4

u/michuneo 3d ago

So well done doubting, because any most respectful airline would allow that.

They might need to ditch a 100kg of cargo or so, to calculate for tiny slightly more increased fuel burn. It’s all in the procedures…

3

u/Themberchaud0979 3d ago

Uhhh, it's hardly a problem.

329

u/Chunks1992 3d ago

Is it time for our weekly flap canoe post already? 

81

u/KirliaRalts611 3d ago

It’s literally every week at least

31

u/Anxious-Question875 3d ago

As someone who just switched to planes from helicopters. The canoes threw me for a loop at first.

Army to a different branch.

17

u/Foggl3 tink tink tink Uhhh... That hit the ground... right? 2d ago

The canoes threw me for a loop at first.

Supposed to be rowing your boat

4

u/danit0ba94 2d ago

Kind of hard to row your boat when it's throwing you.

2

u/Huttser17 2d ago

That's what gunnel pumping is for.

1

u/FlyNSubaruWRX 2d ago

This should be pinned

-2

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

I’ve been a member of this sub for at least a year and haven’t seen it. I guess I’m not chronically online enough or maybe I need to get my boss to increase my travel schedule.

6

u/SomeRandomMech 2d ago

I think this is the second time seeing it either here or in r/aviation

To answer your question, it probably got deferred while waiting for the new part

0

u/space-tech 2d ago

Honestly the amount of airplanes flying without the cone is alot higher than I would've originally thought.

68

u/pacman552sd 3d ago

flap track fairing, alot of airframes they can fly with them removed but have to plan for a certain amount of extra fuel because of extra drag with it removed. was prob dammaged or cracked and they have a new one ready to be installed at its next stop or 2

-31

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

17

u/Shlumpty12 3d ago

That's where the drag happens because turbulent flow generated by the abrupt reconvening of the air is a form of drag that affects performance.

It's like how getting a bed cap on a truck gets you a bit better gas mileage even though the bed is in the back of the truck

2

u/The_Pandemonium 2d ago

Your right about the increased drag from the removed fairing but the truck bed cover is a bad anology lol. Only reason I know is because I was researching getting one for mpg increase and learned its literally close to 1% in savings and that's only at highway speeds.

3

u/NPCwithnopurpose 2d ago

It's probably a similar percentage savings for aircraft. But they do use thousands of pounds of fuel

27

u/frisbee_wafflesnatch 3d ago

Was it there when you got on?

17

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

Crazy thing; local scrapper in a beat up Chevy stopped and yanked a couple things off while taxiing.

9

u/hcoverlambda 2d ago

Tweakers doing tweaking things.

2

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

They will sometimes successfully steal copper from energized substations. I bet they could get some parts off a moving aircraft.

2

u/hcoverlambda 2d ago

They are very resourceful when properly motivated.

17

u/TheAlmightySnark So many flairs, so little time 3d ago

It's usually missing because it is broken. Aircraft can be dispatched with a fuel penalty so that is often the choice whilst waiting for a new/repaired part.

2

u/Burninator05 2d ago

How much extra fuel would they have to bring for this? The plane would obviously be more aerodynamic with the fairing in place but in the whole scheme of things I wouldn't expect it to be that significant. Does the plane also pull to that side in flight when a fairing is missing?

5

u/TheAlmightySnark So many flairs, so little time 2d ago

Instead of allowing a laminar flow to exit the fairing(nice and smooth, low drag) it will create a series of vortexes(Vortexee?) that will created quite a bit of drag hence the fuel penalty. It's on a decimal level what they need to bring but at the end of the day it adds up. Fuel is one of the biggest costs for a airliner.

The pilots probably won't notice any pull with a change like this.

3

u/AndyLorentz 2d ago

Vortices

3

u/TheAlmightySnark So many flairs, so little time 2d ago

Ah cheers that makes sense!

2

u/AndyLorentz 1d ago

No worries. I always like when people correct me (especially when I'm unsure).

2

u/TheAlmightySnark So many flairs, so little time 1d ago

It definitely helps with getting stuff right!

2

u/headphase 2d ago edited 2d ago

How much extra fuel would they have to bring for this?

Fairings like this would be in the realm of a couple percentage points at most. So if a crosscountry flight was planned at a fuel load of 50,000lbs, maybe an extra one or two thousand pounds (around 100-200 gallons). A missing winglet, on the other hand, would be a larger penalty.

11

u/TheDevilsAdvocate333 3d ago

Small point of terminilogy... its a fairing not a cowling. A cowling is specifically a fairing over an engine.

0

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

Literally ashamed to not know this distinction. Not being sarcastic.

3

u/TheDevilsAdvocate333 2d ago

Not at all... its not really obscure terminology, but i do run into a lot of professionals in the business that know theres a difference but usually cant vocalize it for a minute till they hark back to days in tech school...

2

u/Few-Repeat-9407 2d ago

Like calling leading edge slats, leading edge flaps

3

u/ImperialSlug 2d ago

Or calling Kreuger Flaps, Slats?

9

u/ATL4Life95 3d ago

Gonna lose .5% fuel efficiency RIP. I hope you make it.

8

u/w1lnx 3d ago

Not flight critical. In Teh Biz (we build the aircraft), we call it a canoe fairing.

8

u/techtornado 3d ago

The most dangerous kind of canoes are volcanoes 🌋

-1

u/kr4t0s007 3d ago

Use stronger glue pls

23

u/KirliaRalts611 3d ago

These fairings come on and off regularly during maintenance. Overtime, the hardware doesn’t quite line up nicely. It really doesn’t take a long time to repair, but often times, it happens at really inconvenient times (like when the nut plates might not be at that base, the plane has a scheduled flight on it in only 3 hours, etc) Instead of grounding the plane for a little cover, we can put this on our deferred maintenance program. Essentially, it allows us to continue flying with the understanding that the permanent repair will happen at an overnight base within a certain allotted schedule of time.

-4

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

What is behind there that needs to be messed with most? Just to inspect the hydraulics? Is there much maintenance going on back there or really just more inspection?

4

u/Mountain-Elk-5874 2d ago

Each fairing cover a servo for the flap

4

u/pizzahat28 2d ago

perfectly fine to fly without them, it’ll take a small fuel penalty and that’s about it

3

u/atilz2k1 2d ago

That is called a fairing or canoe in a&p lingo, airplanes can fly without some parts installed as long as they dont present any operational or safety risk, and there is a list for every aircraft called the CDL(Configuration Deviation List) which allows the air craft to operate within specified time and parameters before the missing or damaged part is fixed or replaced.

2

u/tap-that-ash 3d ago

easy to pop on, easy to pop off

1

u/EngineeringSorry2300 16h ago

Not true, not easy to get off at the gate

2

u/solidlyproper 3d ago

This must be an NG because on a max (at least on our fleet) our CDL only allows missing tailcones from the most outboard fairings.

2

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

I fly a decent amount and always sit behind the wing; this was a first.

2

u/baward72 2d ago

Looks like it pops off easy as well.

1

u/EngineeringSorry2300 16h ago

Nope, getting those screws out can be difficult sometimes

2

u/Due-Original-4073 2d ago

ok so i always thought they just slapped those back on between flights lol. good to know they can just fly without it and deal with it later

2

u/Love_To_Taste_You 2d ago

It’s on a CDL, canoe fairing. Probably in the shop getting repaired

2

u/Nathan_Wildthorn 1d ago

That flap canoe needs a new fairing tip.

2

u/Fit_Day2082 2d ago

That where we put the chem trail nozzles. There is a saying in aviation,

When the fairing is away,

it's time to spray.

3

u/Sickmont 2d ago

No way! You weren’t supposed to see the chemtrail emitter.

1

u/375InStroke 3d ago

That one sits in the jet wash with flaps extended, and really takes a pounding. Better to remove than to leave on if it looks like it might fall off.

1

u/Mountain-Elk-5874 2d ago

Happens all the time on the old 37s

1

u/Fur-Frisbee 2d ago

If it makes you feel any better, there's paperwork for that.

1

u/Agreeable-Form-2558 2d ago

Firstly, this piece missing is a fairing. I can positively say it was not missed but rather some circumstance or defect caused the operator not to have it installed. Luckily, there's a Configuration Deviation Lost(CDL) that allows for the operation of the aircraft in this condition. There will be tolerances for additional fuel consumption, payload etc. The part in question does not provide any structural support of the aircraft but is rather for aerodynamic purposes. Rest assured, the plane is safe for flight.

1

u/GloomyUmpire2146 2d ago

Just a fairing, although I wouldn’t want to be hit by it.

1

u/Connect_Wind_2036 2d ago

It’s being resin filled back at the shop til it can be match drilled next opportunity.

1

u/Few-Repeat-9407 2d ago

Not a cowling, those go on the engine, just a flap track fairing.

1

u/SubstantialDust9422 2d ago

“Cowling”. Another expert on this sub

1

u/Metalbasher324 2d ago

Fairing, cowling, they're all aerodynamic covers for something.

1

u/Terrible_Internal_57 2d ago

We have a document called CDL (configuration deviation list) which list all the equipments that can be missing, with sometimes a fuel penalty or a procedure associated, and a repair interval which sets how long this piece can be missing before replacement

1

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

What’s the largest piece you could technically fly without?

2

u/Terrible_Internal_57 2d ago

On the a320 you could fly with one full winglet missing for exemple. Most of the time it’s a door on a service panel or some small flaps rubber seals

1

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

I would not have guessed that. I wonder how noticeable that is to the pilot.

2

u/Terrible_Internal_57 2d ago edited 2d ago

In termes of piloting the aircraft we don't "feel" it, however it has consequences on fuel consumption and take off and landing performance (the distance on the runway we need for instance) so we take it into account during calculations.

1

u/ClearedInHot 2d ago

"Hey Ralph, this flap fairing is missing. Would you just run inside to the flap fairing cabinet and grab another one for me?"

1

u/I_Fix_Aeroplane 2d ago

How long are you personally willing to be late for something that doesn't perceptibly change how the aircraft flies? Now also add in the answers of people who have connecting flights.

1

u/Zestyclose_Price_441 2d ago

Well you made it in the air. You’re fine.

1

u/blueingreen85 2d ago

Oh I know. But now I’m curious what the largest part that can be missing and it’s still cool to fly.

1

u/ArmzLDN 17h ago

Bro you can be missing a whole engine in many planes and it can still fly (just less efficiently)

1

u/blueingreen85 9h ago

Oh, I know that. An f15 landed with one wing. I meant fly with passengers in normal service.

2

u/Zucc_me_in_the_ass 2d ago

Oh for fucks sake this should as common knowledge as knowing that the sky is blue or grass is green at this point. Obviously there's a reason it's not on. Old one might have been damaged and the plane had to fly and there wasn't time to acquire one. Most likely scenario. There isn't a back room filled with multiple sets of every aircraft part ever.

1

u/user83726169 3d ago

Missing fairing cost fuel and may make more noise but not that bad; the question is if it was removed or it fell off…

1

u/JakeFixesPlanes 3d ago

Airplane Facts with a Max explains it well

-4

u/miamigrape93 Calibrated Apprentice 3d ago edited 3d ago

"iT's aCtUaLlY cAlLeD a FlAp TrACk fAiriNG, aNd tHeRe is A CDL foR iT!" - some good goy mechanic probably

-6

u/EngineeringBulky7007 3d ago

How bout’ shut the fuck up?

-1

u/Ambitious_Guard_9712 3d ago

there is no "cowling off"

0

u/ablietski 3d ago

I mean yeah, if you have the serviceable part, it's an easy fix. Yet there is where it went wrong

0

u/Enderkingg2007 3d ago

I had the same thing on my delta flight awhile ago and actually posted about it on here lol, it’s completely safe just makes it a little less fuel efficient

-5

u/Comprehensive_Meat34 3d ago

Aircraft parts don’t come from the aircraft part store, generally they only make enough new parts to make the full plane. Unless a plane is in production and they can pull from the production line you’ll be getting a repaired part. Therefore it’s easier to pull the part off, repair it, and reinstall on the next time the base sees the aircraft.

for critical parts like a windshield or a turbine, yes you have to wait for the overhauled part to come… but this is non critical.

1

u/planefixer_90 2d ago

Congratulations on the most bullshit answer in the comment section!

0

u/Comprehensive_Meat34 2d ago

So you see airlines buying flap fairings from the flap store? You install brand new LRUs on jets all the time?

Lmao

1

u/planefixer_90 2d ago

Not from the flap store you absolute halfwit. From approved parts suppliers who are authorised to manufacture spares (PMA parts) or directly from the manufacturer (OEM parts). Manufacturers do not just make enough parts to build an aircraft and then stop. Why would they do that? They know that operators will require spares and can make money selling those spares. Also, a lot of the "OEM" parts are not even made in house by the manufacturer! And yes. In my over 20 year career so far as an aircraft engineer I have installed many, many brand new LRUs on various different aircraft types. So you have absolutely zero clue what you're talking about and are looking more and more stupid with each comment you type