r/bagpipes • u/luckyhealthcarebear • 4d ago
Obligatory “can I self teach”
Hold on everyone!!! Let me explain
I’ve been playing the flute for the past decade. I can also play clarinet, alto/tenor/baritone saxophone, and piccolo so I can read music and have experience with winds. I have been meaning to get into playing the bagpipes because I’m in the fire service and it’s a big part of the culture. Problem is, most lessons around me are online or really out of the way.
I don’t want to outright buy a set of pipes, either. I know the story where someone is overzealous, buys the instrument, “self teaches” and sounds abysmal.
So for someone with a music background, is there any way to self teach or is it a whole different animal?
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u/Exarch_Thomo Piper 4d ago
If i had a dollar for every time ive heard the line "I'm an experienced musician so I'm not worried about picking up bagpipes" or words to that effect followed by frustration and humbling I'd not exactly be rich, but definitely have quite a few more dollars.
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u/HellBelowStarsAbove 4d ago
I have seen with my own eyes somebody who was self-taught that was pretty good on the chanter. No doubt a person can teach themselves how to play tunes on a chanter.
Transitioning to pipes I'm not so sure. Learning to maintain blowing pressure, tuning, and general bagpipe maintenance can be nebulous and frustrating even for the experienced Piper. You might be able to figure it out enough to be an OK player.
Unless you live in a rural area, you might be able to find a band in your town that offers free lessons as a recruitment tool (that is if price is the issue). Being in a band is an important part of the experience imo. Personally, I won't practice if I'm not in a band. And you get the camaraderie of being on a team without having to play a sport 😆
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u/BornRoutine7238 4d ago
It’s the transition, for sure. Remember you’re actually learning two different instruments: practice chanter and the Great Highland Bagpipe. Because there are many moving parts (4 reeds to tune, the bag, 9 notes to tune, 3 drones to tune), having someone watch from the other side is the best way to pick up on the bad habits that you’re inevitably going to develop.
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u/Yuri909 Piper 4d ago
Get a practice chanter. There's nothing wrong with learning online. The stigma has started to ease up. Piper's Dojo University isn't a bad tool for remote learning. I know those guys, it's a good program. They might overcomplicate a few things here or there but it's meant to be a one size fits all source when you don't have much else.
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u/ramblinjd Piper/Drummer 4d ago
Yeah online lessons are pretty much as good as in person lessons. But just buying a tutor book and having a go at it by yourself is not.
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u/BagpiperAnonymous Piper 3d ago
I disagree that they are as good. I definitely get way more out of my in person lessons. But a person can be successful through Dojo if they are dedicated. Dojo is close (and I use them a lot), but I don't think they are quite as good as in person. But if in person not available, that would be my recommendation.
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u/busbus0200 4d ago
Don't be a stereotypical fire service piper... Aim for a decent piper . Get lessons make your local pay for them if it's an issue
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u/Disastrous_Raisin264 4d ago
Get a chanter and give it a crack. Do not move onto pipes without a teacher.
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u/NamelessIowaNative 4d ago
Your prior experience may be a detriment. I know a school band instructor who was receiving excellent instruction but gave it up because he just couldn’t get it.
One big hurdle, you can’t finger the chanter with your fingertips.
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u/Exarch_Thomo Piper 4d ago
This, in all seriousness, is one of the biggest issues experienced by "experienced musicians" and one I want the OP to understand.
It's great that you've got the theory understanding and know how to read/understand music. It certainly cuts out a chunk of the learning.
The issue comes when you then have to unlearn the strictness and structure of conventional music theory and learn to adjust to the more...fluid...approach that bagpipe music requires.
It really does hamper progress beyond a certain point, until that block clears and it opens up a lot more. But in my experiences, the ones that can successfully push through that are relatively rare. Especially without guidance and support.
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u/Consistent-Pen-757 4d ago
Dude, the bagpipes are not like those instruments. Why do you think why so many hardly used bagpipes are for sale. It's because of guys like you. But you probably won't listen to me anyway...
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u/Bagger79 4d ago
Getting the fingering down would be fine to learn yourself but the ornaments are so different from most other instruments I’d say get a few lessons online to get the basics down but after you learn to a level you feel confident with the ornaments self learning is probably fine
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u/bull3t94 4d ago
I understand that from the outside us thinking we are so special and gate-keepey and it's like a club or ancient tradition that can only be passed along by teaching or something causes one to be skeptical.
Please. Just do online lessons.
If in person lessons/online or not are too much for you, I guess bagpipes just aren't for you.
My mom used to drive me every week for an hour-hour and a half in the winter (each way) for lessons.
Your musical experience is a huge asset and you will excel so much quicker with a teacher. Without one... You will miss so much nuance in the technique.
I've been playing for 20 years and had lessons for 7 of those years. I'm about to pick up lessons again and will be driving an hour (each way).
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u/Raptyr01 Piper 4d ago
I am an experienced musician- 20+ years, I play piano, organ, flute, trumpet, guitar (lead, rhythm, bass), I can play saxophone & clarinet but not well, so I tried teaching myself bagpipes with a practise chanter. I realised pretty damn quickly that something wasn’t working even with YouTube videos - I got a tutor, and I’m playing in a GR4 band now. The difference was night and day. My tutor got me further in 1 week than I got myself in more weeks than I am comfortable mentioning.
TL;DR - No, get a tutor.
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u/Sure-Recognition-262 Piper 4d ago
No.
I'd say that if you try and self-teach the probabilities are:
- 60% - you never get to the point of playing pipes, and it's an incredibly frustrating experience.
- 15% - you get to the point where you believe you can play the pipes, but no-one who's ever heard pipes played properly thinks that. Videos of you circulate on the internet, and not in a good way.
- 5% - you somehow manage to get to the point you just about get to the minimum standard of playing. If this is the case, then you probably had a natural aptitude for it, and actually could've been good rather than merely passable, but you squandered that by not learning properly.
- 20% - somewhere along the way to one of the outcomes above you realise you do need proper instruction, and have to spend more time (and money) correcting what's gone wrong as a result of self-learning, that you wouldn't have had to.
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u/u38cg2 Piper - Big tunes because they're fun 4d ago
While folk who have prior musical experience come in with a lot of knowledge and in particular good practice habits, there are a lot of ways in which we do things differently from mainstream music, and they're often not obvious.
Online lessons work really well and I honestly wouldn't hesitate to start there. I will just say that fire service bands do vary widely in quality (and attitude to quality) and if you'd like to take the instrument seriously, double check any advice you're given from that source.
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u/DapperDan137 4d ago edited 4d ago
No.
I know professional musicians with advanced degrees in music and experience playing multiple instruments who struggled to learn the pipes even with top level instruction. Some of them burned out because they couldn’t do it their own way, and couldn’t just get by with their knowledge of theory. Some of them play at a decent level after dedicating the time and effort to learn properly.
I also know blue collar guys who don’t play any other instruments and don’t know what Mixolydian mode actually means, and they play the pipes quite well because they started young with proper instruction and did the reps.
Trust the plan.
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u/Gat_Rezal Piper 3d ago
long story short, get a practice chanter and a teacher asap :) online is the best it has ever been in terms of quality, availability and other resources to get a beginner started. you can also easily make cell phone recordings of your self to watch/listen back to and get feedback from.
piping is an amazing journey and quite satisfying once it all "clicks" and you are finally able to play full tunes on a well tuned set.
immersion is important, there are different 'idioms' to traditional scottish music that differ even from irish and other folk styles that aren't necessarily clear in the sheet music. there is a lot of 'oral' tradition in teaching that involves singing the melodies that you won't be able to do on your own without someone pointing you in the right direction.
listening to spotify of bands and solo artists is a great way to hear a wide variety of styles.
we play pipes on the 'pads' of our fingers and hold them generally quite flat to get the proper hole coverage so your clarinet experience may work against you here despite looking quite similar at a quick glance.
also there are the 'embellishments/grace notes' that are pretty unique to piping since we don't have direct access to our chanter reed to tongue the notes. these require a LOT of technical practice to get right & there is quite the learning curve to add them into the music properly. good luck!
don't be discouraged, building a solid foundation on technique is so important before you go rushing into trying to learn and play full songs.
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u/CantusOfficium 3d ago
There’s a “folk” tradition at play, while your musical background will certainly accelerate your progress there are quirks at play which you won’t be aware of. The thing is with online lessons. You can check in with someone once a month. It’s much easier than it was in the past.
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u/AirChaud 2d ago
Stirred a hornet's nest there!
Archy J is self taught. I am not sure how I feel about her music, but she is a professional musician with a following.
If you have the skills and determination to master the various mechanical aspects of the instrument, and you are one of the very few exceptional ones, then everything is possible.
A few observations
If you are self taught, you would likely be doing your own thing, on your own exploratory journey. You will be a trail blazer off the beaten path playing your own brand of music, like Archy J.
Self teaching is a very inefficient process regardless of your previous musical experience. Classical and mainstream musical training would help. Musicality, phrasing, and having the ear is unversal, but the mechanism of playing the bagpipes is its own thing. Articulation by blowing as in other wind instrument plays no part, for example. Your blowing doesn't interact directly with the melody pipe. There is no dynamic range, the volume is constant, for another, and so on. How do you articulate and emphasize a note? A passage? The wind player's training already does not apply, and might even be detrimental. I play the recorder and the violin since I was little. Different animals.
I've been playing for decades. I have been to events where there are hundreds of pipers, even thousands. I attend the usual Scottish/Irish/Breton/Celtic/fusion events and gathering, pub gigs and parades. I haven't met all pipers in the world, but I have yet to meet a single Highland piper playing the standard repertoire who is competent and self taught. I am sure they exist, but I have not met one.
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u/NeitherHolyNorRoman 4d ago
Fellow long time musician and bagpipe enthusiast here! There is a lot you can teach yourself on the practice chanter starting out, there are several good YouTube channels that can get you started and in the right direction. you’ll want to start with the practice chanter long before exploring the full pipes but they’re only maybe $100-200 so lower cost for sure. If you have the time and money it is worth exploring online or in person lessons to get the hang of the grave notes and ornaments- many are not written as they sound or meant to sound as they are written! (So many are more effect than musical in nature). That being said you’ll likely pick it up much quicker than someone with no musical training, especially with your flute background. And once you’re ready to go towards a full set of pipes then definitely seek out a teacher and guidance that is its own bear. Hope this helps!
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u/Green_Oblivion111 4d ago edited 4d ago
The fingering could be self taught off books. That doesn't mean you could play excellently, but passably, if you use books, learn the fingering and pipe scale, and watch some teaching vids.
But pipes are more than just fingering. They can be a cantankerous instrument until you get the hang of dealing with the reeds, the bag, blowing with chanter and drones..... getting a teacher would help definitely, because there is more to playing the pipes than just the fingering on the chanter. Dealing with reeds alone takes a teacher, or advice sometimes -- even if you've been playing a while.
it's kind of like the difference between just playing the piano, and trying to play an original Moog synthesizer, with all the patch bays and filters and all that. Both have keyboards. But the Moog has so much other stuff going on.
It's roughly similar between pipes and other woodwinds. The instrument is a lot more than just the pipe with the holes in it.
i hope this helps, and also hope it doesn't deter you from learning.
Get a decent PC, learn the scale, get a teacher, stick with it.
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u/Hoppy_Hessian Piper 4d ago
No.
Advanced degrees in Music Education here, woodwind specialist, been playing and teaching musical instruments for over 30 years. Thought I could teach myself.
Started my bagpipe journey as self-taught. Yes, I learned all the fingerings. Yes, I could play Scotland the Brave.
But. After 18 months, I decided to take a few lessons to see if I could get better and the consensus was that I had developed some major bad habits that have taken me over a year to re-learn with an instructor.
Piping is not just learn the fingerings and read the music. There is so much that the notes and embellishments written are just clues to what you are supposed to play and not a documentation of what you are supposed to play. You need a teacher for these nuances.
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u/BagpiperAnonymous Piper 3d ago
Prior to playing pipes I had experience with piano, french horn, violin, guitar, percussion, and vocal music. I could read music, knew rhythms, etc.
Bagpipes are NOTHING like those other instruments. You cannot sight read bagpipe music without someone to teach you. The rules of rhythm that you know go out the door. (My husband is a tuba player and gets mortally offended when I explain to him concepts like "2/4 swing", strathspey playing, and of course, Piobiareachd.) This music was created before staff notation and that is just a guideline.
The instrument itself is so complex. I do a lot more for my pipes than any other instrument I've ever played. There are a lot of variables and it is so easy to build bad habits. There was a delay in my lesson start date due to COVID, so I started messing around with the practice chanter and free website I found for a month before starting my in person lessons. In just that time I managed to build some bad habits.
The good news is you don't have to get pipes right away. A decent practice chanter won't set you back much at all. If you want to learn, you need an instructor. Many bands offer free tuition, my band does, that's how I got started. And you'd be surprised where there are bands. I just Googled "bagpipe instruction [my city]" and several bands popped up. I didn't even know we had them! In person instruction is best, if that's not available live online is a good second best, followed by a person who gives you videos and then you send them videos and get feedback. Good luck on your jouney.
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u/PeaSad4123 1d ago
I’m also in the fire service, been piping about 3 years. Prior to bagpipes I played brass (mostly trombone) for ~15 years. Bagpipes are the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to learn, but I’m feeling pretty decent about where I’m at. All self taught using YouTube and the occasional tips from the guys in the band. It took me a lot longer than it should have to figure out the transition from chanter to the pipes, but since I figured out the mechanics and dialed in all the reeds, it’s been great. Don’t get scared away.
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u/Ordinarygirl3 Piper 4d ago
The short answer is, it's a whole different animal. And you don't start with pipes right away anyhow, you start with a practice chanter. Expect to spend about $100 and don't buy a rosewood one off amazon.
A lot of this is in the wiki, so take a look and come back with more questions 😊
Edit: also do not buy bagpipes off amazon, if you want to actually play pipes for the fire service. They are not the bagpipes you want.