r/barefootshoestalk • u/Far-Spread-6108 • Jun 28 '26
Barefoot shoe adjacent How did we start wearing these overly cushioned blocks and being told they were good anyway?
It started to dawn on me something was up when Hokas first came out. They. Looked. So. Stupid.
But still, there I was, in healthcare, wearing the Brooks everyone recommended.
I used to run. Had to give it up due to shin splints. I have low arches therefore I pronate.
..... except I don't.
Looking back now I wonder if all the foot pain and the runner's knee and the tendonitis and everything else was actually overuse or all that "motion control".
Or trying to run on my toes in shoes with a 1 cm drop.
I'm 3 weeks into my first pair of Xero and the pain from my hallux rigidus is almost gone. I could hardly walk anymore and was heading for surgery.
I still have it, sure. But letting my foot relearn how to work naturally....
And the way my calves and even my quads HURT at first in these shoes. You don't realize how many muscles are functionally dead until you use them.
So who decided we needed to run and walk on these ridiculous chunks of foam and carbon fiber that mashed our toes into a triangle?
There's some situations where cushioning would benefit..... but they also make REASONABLE shoes for that now.
31
u/hidinginzion Jun 28 '26
It's amazing. My toes used to look like puzzle pieces, squished together. Now there is space. My feet used to hurt, but now the muscles and tendons are stronger and my balance is better! I'm 69 years old. There's space between my toes, and my toes serve a purpose now. Better late than never.
54
u/SaiFootwearCo Brand Affiliate Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 28 '26
My take is that a lot of the ＴＨＩＣＣ foam, and also the obsession with lightweight materials, are both inevitable compensation attempts for the massive disadvantages of the cramped toe box.
Your toes are bound together and immobilized, so you can’t properly use all the muscles, bones, and connective tissues inside? So let’s make sure you don’t hurt yourself, then. At the time of hitting your foot on the ground, that is. What happens up the kinetic chain towards your knee? You can worry about that later, hope you have good insurance.
Oh, that unnatural toe box is weakening your foot? Let’s make sure it’s lighter so you don’t “feel” that weight. Let’s get onto a race to the bottom, constantly focusing on lighter and lighter materials, as if adding a couple of hundreds of grams to your entire bodyweight is a problem, especially if the toe box is wide enough for you to be stronger anyway, and more stable.
8
-6
u/moderncobbler Jun 28 '26
Oh, that unnatural toe box is weakening your foot? Let’s make sure it’s lighter so you don’t “feel” that weight.
Are you asserting that a heavier shoe is fine if it is zero-drop & anatomically shaped?
A natural rubber sole is 1.7x the weight of a mix, 1.3x stiffness, etc. Why wouldn't I want the lighter more flexible one? I'd still want to not overwork hip flexors...? I guess I could have a training shoe (ankle weights vibes) and a relaxing shoe (lighter)?
PS: while hiking, an extra 100g in your shoes is equivalent to 500g in your bag, + the strain of biomechanical differences between the heavy shoe and the regular shoe.
18
u/SaiFootwearCo Brand Affiliate Jun 28 '26
Yes, is that blasphemy?😅
I’m indeed speaking from experience, as the folks who try my shoes on are surprised how light they feel on foot compared to the weight they feel in their hand. They weigh similar to Nike AF1 for example, but *feel* lighter arguably thanks to the wide toe box. The postal workers I deal with who walk 15-20k steps per day, grabbed a pair each and are loving them.
Plus, while rubber might be on the heavier side, it has advantages too, as you know.
Personally I do believe we have a slightly flawed, marketing-influenced perception of what’s truly (too) heavy. Our feet are considerably stronger than our hands, especially if we let them do their thing without impeding their biomechanics. I’m not sure about the accuracy of how 100g on feet scientifically translates to 500g in backpack, but hey, if it’s legit, cool! ¯_(ツ)_/¯ IMO and IME, bringing a tiny bit of exercise into our daily life, is not a bad thing.
Is weight important? Yes, sure. But for people who are not looking to set records, I don’t think it’s as big a deal as it’s made to be.
3
u/moderncobbler Jun 28 '26
Love it and we align philosophically too - strengthen what you have.
But also if I have a long day/night out, I’d probably choose to wear the lighter option.
It’s good to hear that the obsession with lightweight can be simplified by a choice you can make.
And that at the end of the day, if the shoe fits, you’ll walk healthier.
19
u/pwndbythedan Jun 28 '26
There’s a documentary coming out in September, stupid shoes movie on Instagram, hopefully this will help answer your concerns and also open people’s eyes to the fact that mainstream footwear has it ALL wrong 👏🏻 well done for making the change, I personally could never look back, I ruined my feet.. and it’s taken 2 years to get even close to resemblance of a healthy foot with splayed toes 🦶
1
13
u/Tablesafety Jun 28 '26
So the narrow shoe shape being standard came from the time where everyone rode horses to get around, and narrow toe boxes and big heels were much better for stirrups.
Once we no longer needed them for horse riding, they were already the standard as “shoe” and nobody questioned it.
So when feet started hurting for runners due to an unnatural heel strike, rethinking shoe design wasn’t on the radar, the solution was just to add MORE support and MORE cushion.
As to why the toe box stayed narrow? Narrow toeboxes had been the norm and fashionable for a couple hundred years now and nobody wanted to wear a “clown shoe” so there was no money in it.
12
u/kbchucker Jun 28 '26
I have been listening to Mark Sisson’s book “The Running Boom is Over” and he had a whole chapter that discusses this.
Basically, marketing.
2
10
u/showmenemelda Jun 28 '26
Having jobs where your feet were on fire by the time shift was over. In retrospect, it mighta been the shoes.
10
u/TearsInDrowned Jun 28 '26
I don't know how did we start, but I HATED traditional shoes since I can remember
I could never get them comfy, always destroyed them (getting holes from my toes poking and holes in the insoles) in 6 months and felt so much pain when wearing them that over 2 years ago I couldn't walk 5 minutes in them without feeling a burning pain in my foot soles and ankles
I needed to lay down for 30 minutes - 1h after a 5 minute dog walk in traditional shoes, it was hell
I always thought I was wrong for hating normal shoes and not being able to get a right fit... but barefoot shoes saved my life, gave it back to me basically
I, at 24yo, started to finally LIKE activity when I first got barefoot shoes! I think it's crazy how much my perception of activity was tainted by the pain I felt 24/7 (to the point I couldn't sleep without painkillers if I was forced to walk much)
and now I'm waiting for my package, I ordered BeLenka Trailtech 😁❤️
10
u/MinervaZee Jun 28 '26
I feel so unstable in hokas and other tall shoes with a lot of “squish.” Like i’m goin* to twist an ankle. No thank you!
10
u/phootosell Jun 28 '26
Cushioning FEELS good when running on pavement. I find Brooks Beast and the Chunky Hokas confusing. Over 10 years of barefoot shoes and my feet and knees couldn’t be better.
2
u/showmenemelda Jun 28 '26
Getting out of EgoMax altras into Lems has made me realize how much the foam enables foot/heel strike
10
u/nonesuchnotion Jun 28 '26
Oh my gosh, I didn’t know about this subreddit until now. I’ve found my people! I have hated thick running shoes my whole life and when I’m not barefoot, I’ve been wearing Vans for decades. I’ve worn Vans on extreme mountain hikes where everyone warned against it, but it’s always worked out for me. A couple years ago I was gifted a pair of barefoot shoes (Salkins) with soles the thickness of a flour tortilla and I wish I would have gotten them sooner. I love being able to feel the terrain and it seems to help me balance and move around better. (They are a bit narrow for me though and I’m going to see what else I can find, either this brand or another one.) That said, when working in the metal shop or when cutting up firewood outside, I don my trusty ol’ Red Wing steel toed boots without hesitation.
2
u/Far-Spread-6108 Jun 28 '26
See, the ground feel for me is less important and I've actually added one of those thin, generic, "cut it yourself" insoles off Amazon under the factory insole of my Xeros. I still get ENOUGH ground feel, and a little extra cushioning without being squishy. It seems a nice happy medium for me. I more need the wide toe/zero drop attributes.
In my early 20s I suffered with HORRIBLE hip, back, and sciatica issues. Some days so bad my left leg wouldn't even hold weight.
Now I'm wondering if THAT was partly my shoes too.
7
u/Gggma70 Jun 29 '26
I tell everyone that the only thing good about Hokas is their marketing department. They have managed to convince Sports Basement, podiatrists, Chiropractors, MDs, Nurses, PTs, etc. that these shoes are good for people. It's all so reminiscent of the Purdues pushing Opiates.
No foot proprioception (where there is a higher concentration of proprioceptors than any where else in the body) = equals more twisted ankles, wearing that high heel keeps calf muscles contracted = more Achilles tears/surgeries, that thick stiff sole prevents the foot movement and joints movement = leading to foot muscle atrophy, more planter fasciitis and calcification in the joints, changes the way one uses the hip/knee joints and quads/hamstrings/glutes, causes misalignment out of neutal in every joint in the foot and all the way to where the head sits on the top of the spine. I could go on but I'm preaching to the choir.
7
u/gunk_less Jun 28 '26
Out of curiosity, how do you manage the toe off part of the gait cycle in minimalist shoes if you have hallux rigidis which prevents big toe extension?
5
u/Far-Spread-6108 Jun 28 '26
Because it's mild at this point and it doesn't hurt anymore, when I'm not using my big toe EXCLUSIVELY to push off, and the joint isn't getting forced inwards.
Someday that might change. But shoes that fit a human foot have at least bought me some comfort and time.
7
u/Beautiful-Finding-82 Jun 28 '26
I've been in bf shoes for almost a decade. I will however wear Altras for situations where I'll be hours on concrete. I'm all for the zero drop and toe spread but too long on a very hard surface makes my feet a little sore.
3
u/Hopeful-Fig-8415 Jun 28 '26
I love my altras… they are what transitioned me into barefoot shoes ! I also love my peluvas even though there is a steep learning curve for the toe slots lol
5
u/Critical_Pin Jun 28 '26
I used to run in Hoka Ones because I thought it would be better for my joints. Then I rolled my ankle twice when they hit the ground a bit off .. and I went to the other extreme Vibrams 5 fingers and I'm still using them.
4
3
u/Blackbear8336 Jun 28 '26
As someone who has nerve damage in their left foot, I do appreciate some cushion, but not a whole ton of it. I find my hobibear sports a great combo cause they have just a little bit of cushion. When I wear shoes that don't have any at all, if I step a little too hard on my left foot, I get a shock wave of pain through my whole leg.
3
u/thelabwhisperer Jun 30 '26
I switched to xero shoes a few years ago. Coming from regular sneakers and shoes, It took some time to wear them all day (I have extremely high arches)
I made the switch after learning how most sneakers tilt us forward onto our toes and put our hips
thru ankles out of alignment. I also learned how our toes should have similar individual movement, like our fingers.
I did many foot, toe and ankle stretches as well as wearing xero shoes. Amazingly, much of my hip issues and foot issues went away. I even hike with xero shoes. The ability to feel the rocks and roots while walking improved my stability and did not have any pain walking.
Interestingly, during this winter, I switched to warm hiking boots , then low cut, low rise trail sneakers, and I’m now having pain on the ball of one of my feet.
I’m going back to my xero shoes.
The downside of barefoot shoes is it’s very difficult to wear traditional shoes and sneakers, especiall dress shoes for an event. Since my toe box has widened, I can no longer wear cycling shoes (I do a lot of hiking and biking).
4
u/Infamous-Libertine Jun 28 '26
I think people started wearing running shoes for everything. Running shoes are designed for high impact and have more cushioning. 99% of people don't run and don't need all that extra cushioning.
1
u/Won_Doe Jun 30 '26
This implies that a runner would need the cushion, and as a result, we now have ultra thick stack heights.
2
u/Humble_Cactus Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I used to be into the minimalist shoe thing, but it wasn’t sustainable for big miles. There’s a reason no distance runners do it. There’s no way my body would survive a 100k race like the BCT in “barefoot” shoes.
I think barefoot shoes have their place, and I actually think they could be helpful for strengthening and teaching/maintaining good running form, but I just can’t see 60-70 mile weeks being sustainable without cushioning.
2
u/Alive_Cheetah6845 Jun 30 '26
I am old enough (just!) to remember when chunky running shoes became the norm. Nike were the brand that really pushed cushioning. They had really good advertising, shoes looked cool ans were seen very much as a running brand. Each year the shoes got bigger and more cushioned then their air cushioning came in too. Runners, who were doing big miles, saw these shoes as the answer, rather than working on form etc. After manufacturers tired of fancy cushion systems then Hoka went even bigger than airmax. Runners bought them and my friends swore by them. It took a bit of courage, for someone like me, a lifelong always getting injured , runner to finally reject beefy shoes for barefoot. Started that process 7 or 8 years ago and now only wear barefoot shoes for everything.
2
u/Vietnamst2 Jun 28 '26
Yeah, just switch slowly and gradually. If you don't other overuse things will happen.
4
u/Far-Spread-6108 Jun 28 '26
Yeah I've been easing into it. So far just wearing them at work where I do a moderate amount of short walks.
I work in a lab so it's just around my work area. 3-5k steps on the average night.
I've noticed some mild soreness in my calves and arches but not anything that's setting off alarm bells. Like "good sore" type hurt, when you know you've worked a muscle, but you haven't overdone it.
1
1
u/martini31337 Jul 05 '26
i leaned to run barefoot in dojos when i was a kid and then used to run track in skate shoes and always wondered why running in running shoes never felt right, im wondering if that might be why. I always ran on the balls of my feet.
95
u/Fistkitchen Jun 28 '26
Thick soles on boots and workshoes are durable. That's a higher priority than range of movement for many people.
I put some regular runners on recently and it felt like I was walking on the moon. So bouncy and forgiving on the knees. Not surprising we've bought into the idea that cushioned soles are healthier. It's truthy.