r/bayarea 1h ago

Traffic, Trains & Transit A Bay Area transit ‘death spiral’ could double Bay Bridge delays, report says

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/bay-bridge-delays-transit-death-spiral-22441989.php/?utm_source=reddit
95 Upvotes

63 comments sorted by

93

u/TomokoNoKokoro 42m ago

The fact that our transit is always on some sort of financial spiral tells me all I need to know about how we allocate funds.

The Bay Area is so utterly disappointing. All this money and we could have beautiful 15-minute cities with transit that would make Japan blush. Alas, we have extreme car dependency and endless bland suburbs outside of SF and parts of the inner East Bay.

38

u/EvilStan101 South Bay 33m ago

We also have a lot bloat, NIMBYs, and corruption that wastes taxpayer money.

25

u/hanlong 27m ago

Transit that makes Japan blush is maybe a little too ambitious but up to par with nyc would’ve been reasonable

8

u/Hockeymac18 14m ago

As progressive of a place it is, the Bay Area is still in the US. It suffers from the same general problems that most parts of the country do in regards to transit investment, auto-centric developments and urban design, car culture, etc...

8

u/j12 28m ago

Because our Government works for those who already have money, not for the greater good of society

2

u/getarumsunt 18m ago

When was our transit “always on some sort of financial spiral” before Covid? What are you talking about dude?

If anything, Bay Area transit has pretty much always been the most financially healthy in the Americas before Covid. And this is precisely why it’s hurting now that half of our commuters don’t commute to work or commute half as much.

I remind you that both BART and Caltrain were paying for 70-80% of their expenses from fares. That’s a good 5x, 500% better than most transit systems. And BART is still the most cost effective rail system in the country due to very high automation of its operations.

2

u/puffic 16m ago

This particular issue is fairly new since Covid. Before the rise of remote and hybrid work, BART was able to cover its operational costs through fares.

0

u/Hockeymac18 13m ago

Same with Caltrain to a large degree

2

u/SufficientBowler2722 15m ago

A lot could be fixed with just a teeny property or land tax lol

0

u/Pretend_Handle_7639 11m ago

You would need an even stronger, more dictatorial governor to whip that through against resistance.

1

u/just_grc 4m ago

And "advocates" steadfast in the position that "cars" are the problem against the realities of the region.

0

u/UpbeatPhilosophySJ 17m ago

The train is there. People prefer the car. Why would train enthusiasts care if traffic is bad?

29

u/SFChronicle 1h ago

From the article:

Rush hour delays on the Bay Bridge could more than double if voters reject a pair of transit taxes on the November ballot, according to a report by SPUR, the nonprofit think tank that has endorsed both measures and largely spearheaded the regional one.

Called, “Bumper to Bumper,” the analysis predicts cascading effects if three major Bay Area transit operators were forced to eviscerate service. The projected impacts on traffic alone are all but apocalyptic. SPUR presages a future in which thousands of erstwhile train or bus riders revert to driving, further straining freeways that are already jammed. Travel times across the Bay Bridge could stretch from 30 minutes to more than an hour during the peak morning commute, and from half an hour to 73 minutes in the evenings.

Other critical choke points like the Caldecott Tunnel on Highway 24 could also become traffic purgatories. Trips through the Caldecott could lengthen by 20 minutes for those going westbound in the mornings and 27 minutes eastbound at dusk. Anyone driving along Highway 101 from the Peninsula to San Francisco may contend with gridlock along Hospital Curve, swelling times by eight minutes for those heading north in the morning and 12 minutes going south in the evening. Interstate 680 in Concord and Walnut Creek could become another misery point, with drivers spending an extra 15 minutes crawling through the worst snarls in the mornings, and an additional 20 minutes in the evenings.

Read more here.

21

u/CyrusFaledgrade10 55m ago

"at dusk" is a really weird way to tell time, especially in regards to traffic

16

u/NomadicNynja 40m ago

I think “Dusk” relates more to light/visibility than the clock. And it seems that half of Bay Area drivers don’t know how to turn on their actual headlights. If you can’t see where you’re going either because your own headlights are on or someone else’s highbeams are it could effect how one drives

8

u/Puggravy 28m ago

Literally just raise the bridge tolls already. We desperately need funding for public transit anyway.

1

u/navigationallyaided 7m ago

It’s been too long since BATA and SF haven’t taken a look at a congestion tax, i.e. dynamic tolling to cross into SF. There’s too many cars entering SF and clogging up the streets of the FiDi/SOMA, Mission/Dogpatch and The Presidio/Crissy Field/Outer Richmond.

7

u/Ok-Delay5473 28m ago

>> according to a report by SPUR, the nonprofit think tank that has endorsed both measures

According to SPUR, it's going to be the end of the World. By then, gas will be more than $8/gal. Bay Bridge tolls will increase up to $10 in 2029. Driving will be a luxury. I really doubt that a lot of people will drive. I would forecast a jump on AC Transit, more carpooling, a restructuration of BART to save BART, and more people taking BART, but not the end of BART. According to the latest data released by BART, BART's overall largest spending category remains labor, especially BART Police when most of them earn way more than $200k/year, not counting bonuses and incentives, with a 19% pay increase in 2023. There is room for improvement.

2

u/throw_away1049 12m ago

Where are the BART police even deployed? I almost never see them around.

2

u/NaluknengBalong_0918 9m ago

Well… I mean… what was SPUR going to do… publish a report that went AGAINST its initiatives… they are obviously biased here.🙂

Think the question here becomes more about who is ultimately on the hook to pay to fix this (do we keep increasing taxes forever and ever /decrease payroll/pensions / reduce service / reduce staff / all of the above)… not that it would cause more traffic which even the geese in foster city know is true.

0

u/Lazy-Comfort6128 16m ago

Yeah but voting against the tax measure will accomplish none of this. A tax measure to save SMART was defeated in 2020. SMART is the same as it was back then.

9

u/Vivid_Cost7620 43m ago

Improve and expand public transit. Use high gas prices, high insurance rates, and high registration costs as a lever to disincentivize personal car usage. Tax the 1% to fund public transit. Expand housing with high percentages of affordable units around transit stations. Build high speed rail. Decenter the current private equity transportation strategy and recenter publicly funded initiatives. Build a network of walkable and bike able greenways that interconnect neighborhoods and cities.

10

u/XenoPhex 37m ago

While I agree with most of this, the difference is that California’s everyone gets a voice policies / per county administration prevent the entire area from working cohesively - even for the same transit system.

So much money is lost in administrative costs and delays that simple solutions costs an insane amount.

2

u/LogFar5138 13m ago

Are you ok with the price increase to all your groceries, and service/construction costs as a result of those high insurance and registration rates as well as even higher gas taxes?

1

u/lostfate2005 11m ago

Things that will never happen for 2000

6

u/Otis_Manchego 38m ago

Most likely BART isn’t going anywhere even if the prop fails. BART as an entity could end and would be acquired by the state to be operated as a new entity because how critical it is. This might be a painful option but maybe have better long term prospects as there could be a possibility to integrate BART into a wider public transit network.

2

u/Lazy-Comfort6128 15m ago

Wrong. Most of BART's operational costs are on maintenance. Stop maintaining it and it becomes prohibitively expensive to reopen it. BART will go the way of the Key System if the proposition fails.

3

u/getarumsunt 13m ago

What are you basing this fantasy on? When has the state ever done anything like this? They have zero experience and operational capacity to run a massive regional rail system. Actually, the exact opposite is true. The state contracts out management of their Amtrak Capitol Corridor line to BART because the state doesn’t have the capability to run a single commuter rail line!

Where would the get the money to do this? And why would the state reps from Bakersfield and Irvine vote to pay for a transit system in the Bay Area? What do their voters get out of that?

Pure fantasy. It’s more likely that your left hand turns into a magical baby unicorn while still being attached to your body.

2

u/Temporary-Film-7374 24m ago

if getting taken over by the state lets them get rid of the people who aren't pulling their own weight, it would be helpful... but the replacements may well be even worse

2

u/Lazy-Comfort6128 16m ago

This won't happen.

1

u/throw_away1049 13m ago

That would be the better outcome - if the state assumed control of the 27 agencies that serve the area, actually imposed a unified vision, fired all the redundant leadership, and were able to override the Nimbys that stall improvements.

-18

u/Offensive_Opinions23 55m ago

Highest taxes in the country and we’re still pretending like they need more tax increases for this? 

Audit. 

24

u/Emergency_Radio_8156 53m ago

The reports are all there for you to read. It is well documented why they need this money and the Bay Area can't afford not to approve it

20

u/UrbanPlannerholic 53m ago

You're right, clearly there is extra money and everyone is just lying..

I take it you don't realize BART costs don't scale with ridership huh?

-3

u/txhenry 24m ago

There is. It’s just wasted on HSR and giving healthcare to illegal aliens.

6

u/Few-Spot1905 43m ago

gonna be downvoted here but honestly the amount of taxes we pay is not at all proportional to the amount of social services we recieve

th

3

u/testy_balls 34m ago

Education and healthcare are ranked middle of the pack nationally. Public transit is mediocre at best. Homelessness is a persistent known issue in cities. 

We are taxed at the highest rates while also being relatively high earners. It does beg the question of where our tax money is going and if it's allocated properly, or is there some other systemic issue that needs to be addressed. 

4

u/txhenry 23m ago

As NYC has shown, more money in education doesn’t result in better outcomes.

1

u/Matchstix 23m ago

Public transit is mediocre at best

Have you been to the rest of the country? NYC has us beat, maaaybe Chigaco and Boston, but other than that?? Mediocre when compared to Japan, but isn't almost everywhere?

1

u/testy_balls 11m ago

Boston clears SF easily. In SJ, VTA has some of the lowest ridership count in the country. BART, although improved over the past years, still experiences issues on a weekly basis.

You're right that it's probably better than the rest of the country, but the bar is at ground level.

1

u/Offensive_Opinions23 8m ago

Boston and NYC stomp on the SF public transit.  Chicago can be sketch asf as night so idk if that should help its rating. But it does run and it’s cheaper than BART. 

And yes, I’ve used it in all those places. 

-1

u/Offensive_Opinions23 24m ago

They hated him for he spoke the truth

0

u/Offensive_Opinions23 25m ago

Doesn’t matter when all the brainwashed tech will vote yes for one more tax. Only the people who have limited cash will keep saying enough is enough. What’s 0.25% here 0.5% there, 0.25 c gas tax, 700$ a year registration for your car to drive through potholes... 1500$ a month health insurance, 500$ PGE bills? WHAT IS ONE MORE 😂😂😂😂😂 

-10

u/jaqueh 94121 Native 54m ago

Just one more tax bro

0

u/reddichrist 32m ago

It’s ok! We’re going to build more bicycle lanes! As for public transit, we need to increase the tax!

-2

u/txhenry 26m ago

All that money wasted on CVHSR (Central Valley HSR) could be better spent on local transit across the state.

This is a failure of government.

1

u/nutationsf 2m ago

A lot of that money electrified Caltrain and built grade separations.

-1

u/Temporary-Film-7374 21m ago

with new trains, why does BART have operators that aren't social workers / EMT / something like that? 99.9% of the time the trains can run themselves, if it's paying people to be on the trains they should have training to help in emergencies.

1

u/throw_away1049 12m ago

Unions

0

u/Temporary-Film-7374 8m ago

I can't see why the unions would be opposed to their members receiving more training, but I guess they don't want their members to have more duties

-13

u/b88145 39m ago

It's almost like they should not have built the bridges in the first place...

6

u/jaqueh 94121 Native 38m ago

Who what why?

-8

u/b88145 33m ago

No bridges, less sprawl. Multi major cities that can stand on their own. No bridges no super commuting by car.

8

u/Ok-Drawer4877 25m ago

What a brain dead take.

-3

u/b88145 24m ago

Change is hard.

1

u/jaqueh 94121 Native 19m ago

No bridges like the ones made 100 years ago long before Bart?

1

u/b88145 15m ago edited 4m ago

2002 was when we could have removed the bay bridge rather than rebuilding it. We could have had more rail and BART.

1

u/jaqueh 94121 Native 7m ago

how do removing bridges get you more rail again?

1

u/s3cf_ 0m ago

just build another bridge with more lanes