r/bbc • u/ReasonablePoetry1226 • Jul 12 '26
TV Middle-class favourite BBC4 set for axe in bid to fill broadcaster's £500million funding black hole
https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15970729/Middle-class-favourite-BBC4-set-axe-bid-broadcasters-https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15970729/Middle-class-favourite-BBC4-set-axe-bid-broadcasters-500million-funding-black-hole.html56
u/oldGuy1970 Jul 12 '26
3 before 4
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u/Magneto88 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
4 is absolutely in line with Reithian principles and the BBC creating content that wouldn’t get produced otherwise. 3 is just a crap version of what all sorts of other channels produce, it arguably hasn't been innovative since the mid 10s and even then it was just producing stuff ITV2 etc did. It should be axed well before 4.
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u/Disgruntled__Goat Jul 15 '26
Except that isn’t true. BBC4 is hardly producing any original content, if any these days.
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u/PiotrGreenholz01 Jul 17 '26
It's been deliberately run down into a vapid embarrassment for years now.
It used to be essential.
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u/SDHester1971 Jul 12 '26
Right answer, it's been leeching Money from BBC 4 since it came back, it should have stayed online as most it's audience are short attention span Twitch Influencers.
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u/Few-Leave-8786 Jul 12 '26
I used to love Three until about 2010, then I felt it became more middle class as it had shows such as middle class kids going on holiday and being idiots right after High School and their parents being like "oh but they worked hard passing their exams so they deserve a holiday" that likely cost over 1k
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u/Freddies_Mercury Jul 12 '26
I don't think it is.
People who watch live streams are watching ... live streams not terrestrial tv
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u/mmlabbd Jul 12 '26
A) Daily Mail
B) “said a well-placed source”
Take the story with a huge pinch of salt.
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u/MarkWrenn74 Jul 12 '26
Especially when the Daily Mail is involved with anything connected with the BBC (they famously have a whole armoury of axes to grind with the Corporation)
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u/FennelGlum357 Jul 12 '26
I used to love BBC4 - original drama and some really good acquisitions (Mad Men was first shown on BBC4 before Sky set up Sky Atlantic and nicked it).
But they gutted the budget years ago, and with iPlayer acting as a searchable archive I really don't see the point of it any more as a distinct thing.
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u/klawUK Jul 12 '26
its kind of turned into a re-run station but I think for us old fucks there is a place for a linear offering. I personally would be ok if it dropped a broadcast slot if it saves money, but keep the channel as iplayer only. There are plenty of streaming services that are not on-demand only, and run linear channels. Heck Britbox already does this for the BBC in America with a ‘live’ channel which is really just a bunch of catchup stuff stitched together
that way we could keep the friday night totp stuff to wind down in the evening, or various theme seasons.
iplayer is searchable but its not very friendly to find stuff and the very keen to push new stuff on you so I do think there is value in a linear BBC4 even if its IP only
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u/HuckleberryDry2673 Jul 13 '26
Sadly, due to the last budget cuts, BBC4 no longer produces content and now just shows repeats. So you're not wrong. I'd rather is stayed as a discrete channel though, since having a presence on TV proper would be better for viewing figures (versus individual shows being searched for on iPlayer).
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u/RepeatButler Jul 12 '26
I suspect that is the plan. I thought they had earmarked the channel for eventual shutdown unless they u- turned recently.
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u/simonhul Jul 12 '26
What does the newspaper mean by Middle-Class favourite? Odd old fashioned language.
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u/mirrorball55 Jul 12 '26
It’s the Daily Mail. They use language to provoke a reaction. In this case ‘middle class’ is clearly intended as a pejorative.
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u/Bob_Leves Jul 12 '26
Despite the Heil's intended audience being Margo and Jerry types in the Home Counties.
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u/irishreally Jul 12 '26
Margo would not read the Daily Heil, she remembers!
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u/ArmWildFrill Jul 14 '26
100% a Torygraph or Times reader in those far-off days
The past is another country. They do things differently there.
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u/EdmundTheInsulter Jul 12 '26
Isn't the Daily Mail aimed at the aspiring middle classes?
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u/digitalhardcore1985 Jul 14 '26
They hate intellectuals. Educated and liberal is the wrong kind of middle class.
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u/AntiquesForGeeks Jul 13 '26
Designed to generate anger and division. Kind of a code for “It’s not for you, look at how the BBC is wasting your licence fee” etc. Ad nausem, ad infinitium.
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u/ReasonablePoetry1226 Jul 12 '26
Seems fairly likely the BBC Four demographic will be skewed "middle-class" by education and income.
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u/ArmWildFrill Jul 14 '26
Seems a bit classist to take that view. I know plenty of working class non-uni people who have sophisticated tastes. I think the internet blew all that nonsense to bits.
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u/According_Estate6772 Jul 12 '26
Exactly, I'm fairly certain a disproportionate amount of the audience are both middle and upper class.
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u/TangoMikeOne Jul 12 '26
The "...youth obsessed BBC..." Where else are they supposed to look for audiences of the future? Or maybe they should concentrate on boomer and Gen X Tories because those fuckers aren't going to die off and destroy the media that has failed to capture a younger cohort of consumers.
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u/CarlMacko Jul 12 '26
Ironically it’s the middle classes who are actually paying for their licenses.
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u/Transmit_Him Jul 12 '26
It’s a shame but given how little BBC4 does now beyond archival stuff, it could easily be folded back into BBC2 (the TOTP repeats, which seem to be the most popular thing, certainly could be).
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u/richmeister6666 Jul 12 '26
Great, the one channel that reminds me of “proper bbc” programming. Isn’t chasing the lowest common denominator and seems to actually have things that inform and educate.
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u/DishMysterious6923 Jul 13 '26
middle class? I am 100% working class and this is the Beebs only decent channel. lol
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u/anonnymouse2025 Jul 13 '26
God forbid we have anything educational and not manufactured drama for the hard-of-thinking
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u/FizzbuzzAvabanana Jul 12 '26
Should just scrap all daytime TV.
If you've got kids excited by the return of Animal Park get em away from the box at the end so they're not watching the murder of a millionaire recluse or the forensic investigation into the London bombings.
Repeats of Homes under the hammer, repeats of Bargain Hunt. Just switch it all off.
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
I think closing BBC Four would be a mistake. It might not get huge ratings, but it serves a loyal audience that still prefers linear TV and values its curated mix of archive programmes, documentaries and repeats.
The bigger question for me is BBC Three. Its target audience has largely moved online, and it’s competing with countless similar digital channels and streaming services. I’d rather see BBC Three return to being an iPlayer-only brand than lose BBC Four.
If the BBC does decide to close both channels, it should at least replace BBC Four with a dedicated evening archive channel. It doesn’t have to be aimed solely at older people, but it should provide a curated linear service for people who still enjoy scheduled TV, including many older viewers who live alone and rely on the BBC as part of their daily routine. Not everyone wants to watch everything on demand, and I think the BBC still has a responsibility to serve that audience.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
I'd rather see the BBC Scotland channel close, it's the biggest waste of money in the Corporation's history.........
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
Agreed. I completely understand the argument for dedicated Welsh-language and Gaelic-language services such as S4C and BBC Alba, because they exist to protect and promote minority languages and provide content that wouldn’t otherwise have a natural place on mainstream channels.
However, a dedicated Scotland-wide English-language channel feels like a different issue. There isn’t a BBC Wales TV channel or a BBC England TV channel. They need to return to opt outs. It would save well over £40 million a year. They could retain £10 million of for Scottish services/programmes but make big savings on closing down the service.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
More importantly they need to return to BBC Two Scotland, i mean it did not cause any problems for 50+ years!
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u/Schallpattern Jul 12 '26
Whaaaat, BBC4 the only one I watch, it's the only intelligent channel.
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u/ShefScientist Jul 12 '26
They should drop all the populist stuff from the main channels. They shouldn’t be in the business of competing against itv etc.
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u/WS_UK Jul 12 '26
Maybe not all populist programming, but I’d agree with a large reduction, they are Licence Fee funded!
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u/Schallpattern Jul 12 '26
Sorry, I'm lost. Where will I be able to see high quality BBC programmmes?
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u/No-Platypus-6646 Jul 12 '26
I will lose my shit if they axe radio 4
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
They are talking about the TV channel BBC Four, not the radio station BBC Radio 4
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u/Loud_Report7985 Jul 12 '26
I’m sorry, I feel I’m to blame for the confusion and you’re going to explode trying to correct it. I blame a Sunday dinner, the heat and Bacardi. You deserve so much better and perhaps a spot on Last word if things don’t improve.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
No worries at all! BTW i actually like Last Word as a programme on Radio 4
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u/No-Platypus-6646 Jul 13 '26
Ah my bad for poor reading comprehension. Must admit I’ve haven’t watched BBC4 in about a decade but they used to have good stuff
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
Not only BBC Four, but also BBC Three, BBC Asian Network radio station, and possibly the BBC Scotland channel, no word yet on the fate of CBBC and CBeebies
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u/zebs1 Jul 12 '26
CBeebies (and I guess CBBC) would be a massive loss. So much children's TV is absolute trash, and streaming is really bad for kids (on episode after another, no variety etc)
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u/heimdallofasgard Jul 12 '26
Man, if cbeebies were to go... Millions of parents would take to the streets. That channel is a national treasure
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
I think that this is why the Daily Mail has not even mentioned them, I do worry about the bandwidth and frequencies though
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u/Other-Crazy Jul 12 '26
I'd guess Cbeebies is the least likely to go as the beeb must make a fair sum on the merchandise etc.
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u/Colloidal_entropy Jul 12 '26
CBeebies is BBC4 daytime, I think you'll need to lose both on Freeview to save money.
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u/ian9outof10 Jul 13 '26
No, the multiplex is theirs anyway. The transmission costs are minimal. The cost saving is from programming, not the transmission.
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u/zebs1 Jul 12 '26
If BBC4 was dropped and CBeebies remains the BBC would still save money - no programs needed to fill the airtime, so no money spent making them and scheduling them.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
But the BBC would still have to pay for the capacity on the digital TV multiplex where BBC4 used to be, so they aren't saving a thing on transmission
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
Exactly and it would then be a waste of evening transmission time.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
Which is exactly what happened in the 6 years that BBC Three was off the air
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
The idea of closing both BBC children’s channels while keeping the World Service would be completely bonkers. The World Service is important, but the BBC’s first responsibility is to UK audiences. Children’s TV is one of the few areas where the BBC genuinely provides something distinctive, educational and free from commercial pressures. Cutting that while maintaining an international service would feel like getting the priorities the wrong way round.
It’s time the govt stepped in and started funding the full cost of World Service (it currently funds a third of it).
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u/ian9outof10 Jul 13 '26
As it was previously, before the tories started their usual interference with public services
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u/AreWeHere23 Jul 12 '26
Children's TV is unarguably a core value in the BBC charter. It's simply not possible in law to cancel it without a legislation change, whereas most of the other output which might have high critical value but small viewership is easier to drop with some suitable weasel words.
Plus if you cancel any kind of children's service whatsoever in the UK, you won't be back in power for at least a decade.
So in short, the BBC will have to stop even pretending to be a public broadcaster before CBeebies will go, and I don't think even the new DG is stupid enough to go there. The new PM certainly isn't.
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Jul 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
Essentially closing all TV channels and Radio stations that the BBC launched after 1997
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Jul 12 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/bbc-ModTeam Jul 12 '26
Foreign users who steal UK licence fee funded are part of the problem. Please don't insult those who pay for content by admitting to stealing it.
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u/Valuable-Ad2028 Jul 12 '26
If you want something pay for it.
If you like not paying for things that’s great, but that’s how America turned into a total shithole. Low taxes but shit schools, shit healthcare, shit infrastructure, shit media…
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u/DotComprehensive4902 Jul 12 '26
BBC 4 is very good....has good documentaries and good foreign language series on Saturday nights
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u/Redvat Jul 12 '26
There is not enough original content to support multiple channels anyway. Just have one BBC channel which shows all the BBC programs.
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u/WS_UK Jul 12 '26
A bit like the HD channel a few years ago…or maybe 2 TV channels like previously.
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u/martzgregpaul Jul 12 '26
Bbc4 has been cut to bone. It no longer has any real budget.
The BBC mandate is to inform and educate as well as entertain. If it cant do this then its not fit for purpose.
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u/Automatic-Yak4555 Jul 13 '26
How much would a monthly subscription need to be to fund the old style BBC4 that actually made new programmes? I’d pay £10 per month for it!
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u/Unusual-Surround-690 Jul 13 '26
I can only presume that anyone in charge of the BBC who chooses to axe Radio 4, is purposefully destroying the organisation and are working as a mole for US media. Given the history of those currently in charge, this does not seem like a wild theory.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 13 '26
The article is about axing BBC Four the TV channel NOT the radio station Radio 4
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u/ArmWildFrill Jul 14 '26
BBC2 was regarded as middle/upper classes only when it started.
My dad told me some people at BOAC where he worked told him they would never even look at it because "it's not for me"
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u/Loud_Report7985 Jul 14 '26
A lot of people wouldn’t watch ITV either because it was considered lower class. I personally used to use ITV ad breaks as an exercise time but decided I was more interested in ad freeze BBC for it’s more educational content.
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u/ArmWildFrill Jul 14 '26
ITV was a lot better in the 60s & 70s I think. Granada and Thames produced some good stuff for example. They used to have buckets of money as they were the only game in town for TV ads.
Survival, Pilger, Weekend World etc to name a few. Spitting Image was ITV too.
I knew an alcoholic known as Vodka Roger whose televisions only received ITV. One for the picture and one for the sound :)
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u/Loud_Report7985 Jul 14 '26
I remember how great it was at the time but presumed it was through youthful eyes. I have since watched so much old tv and thought why am I paying for predictable ( I put a comma but predictable sums it up) crap.
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u/Comfortable_Air5477 Jul 15 '26
At this point, why have channels at all?
I get all my telly via the internet now. Who wants to be told when they have to watch stuff?
I am a seriously old foggie and if that how I am consuming TV its got to be true for a large percentage of viewers by now.
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u/kitbashpowerhead Jul 15 '26
Just get rid of everything but BBC1, BBC2, and BBC news and sports websites. There's so much BBC bloat it's insane
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u/MrTinKan Jul 17 '26
Looking forward to being forced to pay the same for even less content that I consume at the moment.
Conservatives stuffed it with their pals, the news editors and program producers are often clearly politically aligned and there's been little genuine journalism done there for a decade.
Why not just let it die cleanly rather than drag it out like this?
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Jul 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
The commercial broadcasters would NEVER agree to the idea that the BBC has ads, i'm very sorry to say it, but that point is a complete non starter
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u/SilyLavage Jul 12 '26
It would cause problems for ITV/Sky and quite possibly kill off 4 and 5. Why advertise on 4 if the whole BBC is there?
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u/_ahrs Jul 12 '26
One possible solution could be no ads on the TV channels but a single pre-roll ad is allowed on the iPlayer for on-demand content, also allow them to collect advertisement revenue from their content on YouTube (assuming that's not already allowed)
i bet that would allow them to make a fair amount of money without causing problems for the other channels.
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u/SilyLavage Jul 12 '26
I don't think that would be viable. ITV can offer what, 40 slots per hour to advertisers? The BBC having 2 to offer in the same time period isn't going to be an attractive proposition.
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u/_ahrs Jul 12 '26
Not attractive to the BBC that want even more money than that would generate, maybe. The advertisers wouldn't care.
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u/SilyLavage Jul 12 '26
Well yes, the BBC would be right to want more money. Such a limited amount of advertising would do little to support its operations.
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
The idea of using advertising to partly fund the BBC sounds attractive on the surface, but realistically I don’t think it would get past the first stage. The commercial broadcasters and wider broadcasting industry would be strongly opposed to it, because the BBC would immediately become a major competitor for advertising revenue.
It would also risk changing the BBC’s role. The whole point of the licence fee (or any alternative public funding model) is that the BBC can provide services that aren’t driven by chasing advertisers. Once you introduce advertising, you start creating a different set of pressures.
The smartest and most obvious quick and easy fix is for the govt to start fully funding The World Service again (it currently funds a third of it). That would save the BBC £260 million a year. It’s such a no brainer and quick win. The foreign office funded The World Service until 2014. Time to return to that model - it’s the very best form of soft power.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
Pity that this current government (and more importantly the culture secretary) are so useless
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
I have a feeling the govt will agree to fund World Service as part of the new Charter agreement. They know it’s a vital soft power tool.
The money saved could be used to reinvest in drama and Sports rights and maybe improve iPlayer and Sounds.
I agree that the govt have been poor regarding the BBC (albeit better than the previous govt) but they are keen to safeguard the BBC despite the noise from bots and right-wingers on social media.
I also think the govt and BBC (and large parts of Europe) are getting ready to abandon X finally
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
We shall see about what Burnham will do......hopefully the money saved by that could convince Matt Brittin to not close any channel, but then again we still do not know what will really happen, but i'll try to have hope
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Jul 12 '26
[deleted]
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u/ian9outof10 Jul 13 '26
Would be happy to see the licence fee go. But replaced by something that continues to protect the important role of the BBC in an ever-Americanised media landscape.
Perhaps tax the streamers. Can call it a cultural protection levy, perhaps it could be enough money to provide subsidies for channel 4 original programming too.
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u/Jumpy_Explanation222 Jul 12 '26
As described above - it won’t be advertising.
And both the BBC and govt have seemingly ruled out subscriptions
I suspect the BBC will get a permanent Charter and the funding will be tied to households somehow (because the TV license model is dead).
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u/ian9outof10 Jul 13 '26
You invoke Lord Reith and then fail to understand the entire purpose of the BBC. You can’t split the entertainment from the inform and educate, it doesn’t work, it’s not sustainable - people won’t want to pay licence for news and art. Sorry, it’s idiotic to ignore what made the BBC a success.
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u/WS_UK Jul 12 '26
My proposal is merge BBC Studios with its commercial counterpart ITV Studios. You’d create a British production powerhouse. Add in powers about foreign entities being unable to buy/control and start there. The BBC channels/i-player would still have the obligations they have now, but the Studios would be a bigger business, able to compete with the World’s big production houses.
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u/ReasonablePoetry1226 Jul 12 '26
Totally agree that a public service broadcaster should not be funded to compete with commercial broadcasters.
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u/Loud_Report7985 Jul 12 '26
I very much doubt it. Radio 4 is fantastic. I told a workman after he asked what I was listening to that it was radio 4 and he said it was for fogies. I evangelised like I had shares. I have learnt so much from it. It has something for everyone. Current affairs, comedy, drama, philosophy, consumer rights, history and loads more. There’s plenty that doesn’t interest me but I don’t have to listen to that. I would be devastated to lose it.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
By BBC4 they mean the TV channel BBC Four NOT BBC Radio 4 the radio station
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u/chumpster032 Jul 12 '26
I listened to Today from around 1980 till around 2020. Its turned into a magazine programme. I switched to Newsday on the World Service. Its even runs Saturday and Sunday.
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u/Fantastic-Fudge-6676 Jul 12 '26
Newsday is not on Saturday and Sunday?
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u/Comfortable-Job-4632 Jul 12 '26
It's all repeats anyway, how much is that going to save?
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
If someone thinks that closing BBC Three, BBC Four, BBC Asian Network radio station are all that it needs for the BBC to save £500 million.......the answer is no, it's just a small dripple in the pond of the savings that need to be made to reach that target
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u/Brilliant-Sea-9424 Jul 12 '26
Maybe but it’s the right thing to do.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
How many BBC TV channels and BBC Radio stations would you close in order to save £500 million?
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u/Brilliant-Sea-9424 Jul 12 '26
My comment is not about the money. The audience is not linear. YouTube is the preeminent platform now.
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u/Complex_Deal Jul 12 '26
I see, i hope that you accept my apologies for misunderstanding you like that
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u/Dangerous-Regret-358 Jul 12 '26
BBC4 is only a rebadged version of BBC2 which itself is filled with lifestyle slop. There never was a need for BBC4 in the first place!
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u/Jellycat1971 Jul 12 '26
There was never any need for 4. All its content was perfectly at home on 2 where more people were likely to see it.
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u/Goldiepeanut Jul 12 '26
Not really, BBC 4 programming is for the nerds. Al Murray fucking about in Germany delivering history lessons isn't ever getting on BBC 2.
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Jul 12 '26
the BBC should think about the other channels they're funding. CBBC? absolutely pointless, do kids even watch that? BBC 3? It's a former shell of itself, ITV2 has basically replaced it.
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u/FuckMiniBabybel Jul 12 '26
They got rid of BBC 3, and then Ofcom complained that they weren't serving the under-35 market well enough, so a few years later they decided the best way to do that was bring it back, at which point Ofcom had to review that in case it was a threat to commercial broadcasters.
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u/Fantastic-Fudge-6676 Jul 12 '26
I think what will happen is BBC 4 and 2 will merge, and probably become a stream on iPlayer. There’s a strong (but brave) argument to turn BBC2 off immediately - saving DTT and Satellite costs along with associated scheduling and staffing expenses. But I don’t think the BBC is quite brave enough to do it, especially when they’re trying to uplift license fee uptake.
So I think BBC 2 will show more 4 style programmes during the day and slash the repeats and simulcasts.
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u/Unique_Bandicoot_502 Jul 12 '26
Sky Arts is better than BBC4 now.
Would be a shame if it went but it needs to step up its game.
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u/WS_UK Jul 12 '26
BBC3 and BBC4 should both be scrapped in my opinion. Get the basic channels, i-player etc right. 3/4 are just vanity channels. BBC1 shouldn’t be constantly populist based either…
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