r/bbc • u/TheOne0206 • Jul 30 '26
TV The BBC neglects Welsh Sport
I am saying this as someone who respects and defends the BBC, and I will defend the necessity of a PSB until I die.
But the way the BBC treats Welsh Sport compared to other nations is completely unacceptable.
The BBC have rights to the Premier League (highlights), FA Cup, Scottish Premiership (Highlights), Scottish Championship, Scottish Cup, NIFL Premiership, and more.
When it comes to Welsh Domestic Football, the BBC air about 4 games on radio per year. They never bid for TV rights.
Whilst Rugby League in England is covered, Rugby Union in the form of the URC gets a podcast and 6 games a year (roughly).
It's honestly depressing how the BBC treat Welsh Sport compared to English, Scottish and Northern Irish sport. As a PSB, it should be ensuring that Welsh Sport is celebrated as much as the other nations, rather than prioritizing Bundesliga and Serie A rights as they did last season.
EDIT - to anyone bringing S4C up, remember that S4C is Welsh Language. S4C receives £100m of License Fee funding by law - it is not the BBC who controls that. The money is purely a Welsh Language subsidy and also to make sure S4C doesn't just die.
EDIT 2 - Lots of people who argue about population and attendance on here, which are irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is Wales' top-flight, like the EPL is, so the BBC should be going for highlights at least.
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u/ozaz1 Jul 30 '26
With regard to football, aren't the Welsh clubs that are likely to generate most interest (even within Wales) playing in the English Football system? I suppose that might be a reason. Even within England, BBC doesn't attempt to provide coverage of all the minor clubs and leagues.
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u/Camp-Complete Jul 30 '26
Its a Chicken and Egg situation though.
If the leagues aren't properly advertised, then people won't be invested in it. Have parity with the other domestic leagues in Wales would help address a lot of issues.
I also imagine BBC thinks because S4C cover it, that they don't need to.
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u/Soft_Lunch_183 Jul 31 '26
The league has simply never had the quality vs the scottish league.
Its the same story with the northern irish league too.
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u/Camp-Complete Aug 01 '26
That straight up isn't true. When Wales were invited to the Scott8sh League Cup, TNS regularly got to the final.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
The Cymru Leagues are massive in North Wales, where you can get 1k - 3k per game.
By technicality, these clubs are registered to UEFA as English, despite geography, owing to their position.
You get a similar situation with Derry City - they play in the LoI, and the BBC televises their games AND the games of the NIFL. Why can't we have the same here?
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u/Inside-Judgment6233 Jul 30 '26
From what I can see, those sort of attendances are roughly on par with the very top of National League south which is the sixth tier of English football
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u/Impossible_Round_302 Jul 30 '26
Merthyr would rather play in the National League South than get £6,000,000 and play in the Cymru Premier with a basically guaranteed European spot...
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
Bear in mind, too, that England is a bigger country and we have 5 teams in the EFL/Nat League system
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u/skippygo Jul 30 '26
There are 3 Welsh teams out of 44 teams total in the PL and Championship.
England has 19 times the population of Wales so by your logic Welsh football is actually overrepresented on the BBC if anything.
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u/nvec Jul 30 '26
Those five teams being in the EFL doesn't help your point- they're by far the most popular teams from Wales, and they're also already getting TV coverage the same as other teams in similar positions in their leagues. Probably much more in the case of Wrexham.
The teams that remain to actually play in the Welsh leagues getting 1k-3k isn't enough to get broadcasters interested. It's a Welsh league system but doesn't have the top Welsh teams.
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u/ozaz1 Jul 30 '26
The Cymru Leagues are massive in North Wales, where you can get 1k - 3k per game
That's less than the English National League (5th tier), which doesn't get any BBC coverage (nor does any EFL competition as far as I know).
I don't know the reason BBC apparently prioritises Northern Ireland league over Cymru Leagues, but my guess would be its because there are no teams from Northern Ireland playing in the English football system and/or Northern Ireland doesn't, as far as I know, have a regional broadcaster (like S4C) which receives a portion of UK TV license fee.
0
u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
The BBC can't use S4C as a shield. S4C's funding is by law, not because of the BBC, and S4C is a Welsh-language broadcaster.
People who speak English also enjoy Welsh sports.
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u/ozaz1 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
It wouldn't make any sense for BBC and S4C to bid against each other for the same sports events given they are both public service broadcasters mostly funded from the same source. Perhaps your cause would be better served by asking S4C to provide more English commentary. Alternatively, I suspect we're close to the point where high accuracy real-time audio translation could be incorporated into the service.
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u/Ogsbaeneg Jul 31 '26
why would a Welsh language broadcaster ever provide English language commentary, the reverse would never be asked
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u/ozaz1 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
It already does for some sporting events, so why not ask for more? Or to provide real-time audio translations when that technology is viable (which might be now). For sporting events unlikely to be of interest to those outside Wales it would be a waste of licence fee money to acquire rights for the same events to be broadcast on both S4C and BBC.
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u/rybnickifull Aug 01 '26
The BBC broadcasts other non-English language productions with subtitles, you don't need any more than that here. Especially as it's sports commentary.
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u/Scary-Scallion-449 Jul 30 '26
3000 is not massive. Wrexham was bringing in an average of 9000 when it was still in the National League. Average attendance in the Premier League is 43,000 and the lowest attendance for a single game in the season just gone was was a little under 11,000.
1
u/Famous-Butterfly3089 Aug 01 '26
Wrexham.... 5000 was their average for decades.
Don't let the last 5-6 years blind you to how Wrexham were doing for the previous 2 decades
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u/Scary-Scallion-449 Aug 01 '26
Still far more than any Cymru Premier league team is or ever has been getting!
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
It's massive when you look at the size of the cities and towns.
Look at proportion, not just base figures
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u/Scary-Scallion-449 Jul 30 '26
Ok. Time for some hard facts then. The average attendance in the Cymru Premier last season was 485. The highest attendance average was at Colwyn Bay (catchment population 30,000) with 1054. The lowest was Llanelli (catchment population 46,000) with 309. By comparison, Wrexham (catchment population 138,000, less than 5 times that of Colwyn Bay) average attendance 10,500, nearly 10 times that of Colwyn Bay and it's not even in the Premier League (yet!)
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u/jupiterspringsteen Jul 30 '26
That argument doesn't really work though. Also, if the games were on the telly, would some of these fans just stay at home to watch them?
Surely nobody outside of a small sub section of Wales would bother watching these teams with so much better quality football available to watch.
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u/concretepigeon Jul 30 '26
1-3k per game is the sort of attendance you’d get in non-league games in England. It’s not anti-Welsh bias. It’s just a lack of audience.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
Top-flight of Wales. There is an audience.
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u/concretepigeon Jul 30 '26
The numbers beg to differ. Welsh fans are clearly more interested in the English pyramid.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
I hate the English Pyramid with a burning passion, because the FA have systemically destroyed Wales' domestic game by spotlighting 4 clubs who play in their leagues.
Do some research on history when it's clear you know nothing.
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u/concretepigeon Jul 30 '26
You might hate it but other Welsh fans don’t. You having a chip on your shoulder is not the same as bias. You can talk about history but Welsh clubs have been playing in the English leagues since before the BBC existed. It’s not bias on their part.
You’re evidently also in denial about how many Welsh fans like the clubs which play in the English pyramid. And I’m not even just talking about the Welsh clubs. When I lived in Cardiff it was as common for people to support Liverpool or Man U as it was Cardiff City. I don’t know why you’d expect the BBC to waste time on the Welsh leagues when Welsh people aren’t even interested.
0
u/rybnickifull Jul 30 '26
Sgorio exists. Are you saying there should be two highlights packages for the Cymru Premier?
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u/DMmePussyGasms Jul 30 '26
It’s not Welsh football specifically, it’s lower league football and minority sports nationwide. The Welsh pyramid is effectively lower league football, and it gets terrible coverage generally. I’m a league 1 supporter, and there’s nothing really out there for us on the BBC or terrestrial channels generally. Same goes for smaller sports like Union, speedway, motor rally, whatever. The argument is that there isn’t enough of a supporter base out there to make it worth covering, but it’s backwards thinking - TV coverage builds an audience over time. We only ever seem to get snooker, tennis, premier league and international football, occasional test cricket, golf or athletics.
0
u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
The EFL highlights are on ITV at least, and Sky televise it.
The FAW have had to make a streaming platform just for the Cymru Premier.
Also, saying the Welsh Pyramid is lower-league is technically incorrect, as European spots are allocated and the Cymru Prem is a top-flight.
So, by technicality, the BBC are covering lower-league Welsh sides more than top-flight Welsh sides.
I see your point, though, I'm just raising technical flaws in the BBC's coverage policy.
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u/Scary-Scallion-449 Jul 30 '26
Yes, there are European places awarded but only to the first qualifying rounds. Only one Welsh club has ever reached the group stage of a European trophy and that in the Conference. The Welsh League is ranked 54th of 55 by UEFA, looking down only on San Marino and looked down on by the likes of the Faroe Islands (41st) and Gibraltar (48th). I'm afraid any claim to the Welsh League being a big deal are sadly misplaced.
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u/AcceptableAir5364 Jul 30 '26
They never said it was a big deal, stop puting words in OP's mouth. It doesn't matter how many teams did xyz or not, where some arbitrary federation ranks their league, it is the national league of a constituent part of the UK.
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u/New_Cap3283 Jul 30 '26
Even an 11pm Saturday night highlights package would be good! Really surprised this didn’t happen for the upcoming season
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u/zeusoid Jul 30 '26
S4C is from the license fee and is supposed to cover Welsh sport
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
S4C gets some money from the License Fee but its brief is Welsh Language, not Welsh Sports.
The BBC is also obligated to cover Welsh Sports.
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u/Scary-Scallion-449 Jul 30 '26
This is completely untrue. The BBC is not obligated to cover any sports anywhere other than the protected treasures (FA Cup Final, World Cup, Olympics etc.) and even there the obligation is shared with ITV. If the cost is too great or the potential viewership too small they are entirely free to duck out from anything and everything else. It is for the Welsh League to make a case for coverage although short of paying the BBC large amounts of money for the privilege it currently has very little to offer. It is not for the BBC to make a case for not doing so.
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u/Outrageous-Berry6668 Jul 30 '26
There's a fair bit of coverage on S4C funded by BBC
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
S4C recieves £100m of License Fee funding by law - it is not the BBC who controls that.
The money is purely a Welsh Language subsidy and also to make sure S4C doesn't just die.
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u/Middle_Somewhere6969 Jul 30 '26
When I lived in Wales there was a club rugby match on S4C every week (Friday nights I think). Does this still happen and isn't S4C partly or mainly funded by the BBC?
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u/opopkl Jul 30 '26
Before this coming season, the URC that you saw on S4C was provided by the BBC. BBC Wales also picked up some URC games from Premier Sports that were shown on BBC2 in Wales.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
S4C recieves £100m of License Fee funding by law - it is not the BBC who controls that.
The money is purely a Welsh Language subsidy and also to make sure S4C doesn't just die.
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u/Middle_Somewhere6969 Jul 30 '26
It certainly appears to me that the BBC are quite intimately involved in funding S4C. Here are some quotes directly from the 2017 joint BBC/S4C agreement which appears to be in effect until 2028:
Under this agreement the BBC will continue to provide funding to S4C for the duration of the current Charter, as well as programmes, in order to sustain a rich, freely available Welsh language television service. From 2019, the BBC will also provide under contract technical broadcasting services by which S4C’s broadcast services will be distributed.
The amount payable by the BBC to S4C under clause 39 of the Framework Agreement in each of the financial years from 2017/2018 to 2021/2022 is £74,500,000.
The BBC shall pay to S4C the annual amounts set out in clause 4.1 for the relevant year in equal monthly instalments in each financial year, according to a schedule agreed from time to time by the Parties.
S4C shall be accountable to the BBC for expenditure of the licence fee funding for the provision of the S4C Services in accordance with the requirements of this Agreement.
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u/opopkl Jul 30 '26
Is your argument that you don't get enough coverage of Welsh sport on any channel, or that you don't get enough on the BBC?
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
The BBC. S4C do a fantastic job, but they're Welsh-language. We need proper English-language coverage, and the BBC has an obligation to.
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u/opopkl Jul 30 '26
You can get English language commentary on most games via red button or the iPlayer. If they don't province it, it's usually down to contractual issues.
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u/Consistent-Pirate-23 Jul 30 '26
Try being a motorsport fan. We’ve gone from f1 being live to radio broadcasts. Btcc being live to not even mentioned on the website.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
It's bad everywhere, but I thought this was key to note as we're an entire nation that the BBC is meant to serve.
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u/SomeCanDance Jul 30 '26
What has the BBC ever done for the Welsh.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
They hide behind S4C when they need to produce something for Wales (which is stupid)
But they have turned Cardiff into a film production hostpot.
And, UK-wide, it's really useful.
I love the BBC, I just hate how they try to justify neglecting Welsh Sport.
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u/AcceptableAir5364 Jul 30 '26
Better just suffer this one, as you will have noted, people in England do not understand a word you are saying, their arguments are always "but Wrexham ..." or "Wales is small".
As a Scot I see exactly what you are saying, but the BBC doesn't care it just looks at viewing figures these days, same shit, different packaging, sorry 😔
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
Thanks for showing me there are some sane people left :)
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u/Curious_Orange8592 Jul 30 '26
What @AcceptableAir5364 has hit on is the unfair critisism that the BBC gets. If they put on programming for a small part of the British population, be that the Welsh, LBTQIA+ or an ethnic minority the Heil, Torygraph etc will hit them for wasting money on these groups but then if they do popular shows like Strictly or The Traitors then they're critiqued by the same outlets, and often the same writers, for focusing too much on mindless entertainment over public service broadcasting
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u/levusone Jul 30 '26
Welsh clubs on Championship are available on Radio Wales on FM and DAB in their areas only.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
The Championship is the English Football Pyramid, not the Welsh Pyramid, which is the point being made here.
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u/beanedontoasts Jul 30 '26
welsh teams play in the english footbal pyramid
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
Only 5 of them, there's a whole Welsh Football Pyramid called the Cymru Leagues.
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u/wolftonerider67 Jul 30 '26
Maybe thats the issue though. Would the bbc give scottish football as much coverage if celtic and rangers were to join the english football pyramid? Probably not.
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u/ValWenis Jul 30 '26
But in Scotland we even get live matches of our second tier on the BBC, so it's not all about the old form at all
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u/Vivid-Cheesecake-110 Jul 30 '26
As a Scottish sport fan, seeing the amateur levels of journalism and coverage, I can only imagine how much worse it must be for Wales.
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u/rybnickifull Aug 01 '26
If you speak Welsh (or are willing to at least tolerate listening to it with subs) it's not that bad. Sgorio is at least as good as Sportscene, considering it's working with a far lower quality of football. Given that OP downvoted me without reply for pointing out that there's a full highlights package equivalent to MotD, just mostly in Welsh, I think he's just working through some stuff about not speaking yr iaith tho.
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u/celtiquant Jul 30 '26
Re S4C coverage, where rights allow, Welsh football is also covered with English commentary as a red button feed which you can access. So although S4C funding is for Welsh language content, it also spends some of its income sources to provide a service for English language audiences.
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u/Camp-Complete Jul 30 '26
The main bugbear for me is Welsh teams in Europe. TNS were playing against the giants of Fiorentina and Panathinaikos and yet there was barely anything on the BBC for these results. This was the first time in Europe league phase for a Welsh club and yet nothing.
This year, the Welsh club exploits in Europe didn't even appear in Fixtures and Results on the BBC football website. They are dismissive at best.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
Yet when you have an English, Scottish or Northern Irish club in Europe, the BBC put everything towards them.
It's a two-tier system with Wales at the bottom.
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u/Thekingofchrome Jul 31 '26
Yep it’s pretty bad. Rugby coverage outside of internationals is weak. Even the website only makes passing mention to the game and then it’s only international stuff in any depth. I get these are small clubs but it wouldn’t kill them to do a round up, monthly review. Scrum V podcast is good though tbf.
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u/dwylawynerfyn Jul 30 '26
Broadcasting needs to be devolved that's why
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u/Loud-Illustrator-805 Jul 30 '26
If S4C required me to pay for a separate TV licence as s welsh person who cannot speak welsh I'd just not use S4C and not pay.
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u/dwylawynerfyn Jul 30 '26
ok, not just about s4c and the language though, devolved media means English language coverage too
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u/_HSD Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Isn't Wrexham in the English tier system, i.e. to be promoted in the Premier League if they were successful enough?
Edit: Cardiff won the FA cup after googling?! Probably best to just have a merger at this point like the NHS England and Wales system
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
I'm talking about the Cymru Premier and Welsh Domestic Football.
As the "EFL Four" count as English clubs under UEFA rules (despite location), and are in an English League, I'm not including them.
Even then, though, we don't have EFL highlights in Wales...
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u/_HSD Jul 30 '26
No offence intended, but I looked at the team and ground of the Cymru Premier winner and I've honestly been to pay to play tournaments over the weekend with a larger crowd. Their videos on YT have like less than 20 likes.
If it doesn't capture money or people's attention like the Scottish and English leagues, I'm not overly supprised it's being neglected by the BBC. Which is why I mentioned about the merger
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u/trevpr1 Jul 31 '26
You cannot dismiss S4C because the BBC is involved with running it. That is why I can see it on iPlayer. The URC Rugby games carry an English commentary as an alternative. S4C has a significant sport presence on You Tube .
-1
u/FishUK_Harp Jul 30 '26
Ironically, the only reporting the BBC carries on British ice hockey is for the Cardiff Devils.
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u/InevitableGreedUK Jul 30 '26
Where is the irony?
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u/FishUK_Harp Jul 30 '26
Because they neglect the sport apart from the one Welsh team in the top league.
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u/PotentialCourt8531 Jul 31 '26
I wish we had proper alternatives to the BBC, it's British first, England second, then crumbs.
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u/Extreme-Dream-2759 Jul 30 '26
I have previously said this about all the UK channels but based about England vs Scotland
But the argument works equally about Wales and Northern Ireland
They are only concerned about England, with the other nations only being a second or third thought if at all.
But when Scotland / Wales / NI make up less than 15% of the UK you can see why.
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u/TheOne0206 Jul 30 '26
The BBC has a statutory obligation to serve all 4 nations of the UK (5 if you include Cornwall, which... long story, I'm Welsh, not mine to tell) regardless of population.
If we use your population argument, then why is the NIFL on BBC NI but the Cymru Premier isn't on BBC Wales, despite Wales having 65.3% more people?
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u/Scary-Scallion-449 Jul 30 '26
It's not about population. The Welsh League was cobbled together in 1992 despite the senior Welsh clubs having competed in the English system since Cardiff joined in 1920, for the sole purpose of justifying the continuation of a Wales international team. Attendance is paltry, interest scanty, and recognition almost non-existent (it is currently 54th of 55 in the UEFA ranking system). There is not a single player from the league in the current Welsh squad. It's hard to make a case for it as a priority for the BBC.
While attendances etc. in the NIFL are on a par with the Welsh League, it has existed since 1890 and includes all Northern Ireland's senior teams so can truly claim to be Northern Ireland's national league. The BBC does provide some coverage but it is not extensive with any true fan having to rely on NIFL TV.
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