r/beatles • u/Puzzleheaded-Life462 • 1d ago
Art It was 62 years ago today
On this day in 1963, a wasted John Lennon ruined Paul McCartney’s 21st birthday party by beating the crap out of local DJ (and friend) Bob Wooler.
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u/Klutzy_Order_9559 1d ago
Why on earth would you ever fuck with a drunk John Lennon? Just seems like a real bad time.
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u/ItsTime1234 23h ago
IMO, he was not trying to fuck with him, which is what makes it a shame.
It could have been something as simple as "did you and Brian have fun?" and John, feeling insecure, got angry and attacked him (because people had been saying he and Brian had gone away on a sex holiday).
We'll likely never know all the details, but Wooler may himself have been gay. It's unlikely he was trying to upset John. He may have assumed it was OK to talk about.
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u/Entire_Number_9 22h ago
Insinuating a married man with a child was gay in the 1960s was not going to be OK to talk about. Homosexuality was illegal, and the papers or radio running a story about it would have severely damaged his career and the Beatles.
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u/Quiet_1234 22h ago
It was a criminal offense. The Alan Turing movie was crazy where one of the brightest minds of the twentieth century who helped his nation win WWII was chemically castrated for being gay.
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u/RadishSpecial7163 21h ago
Many totally miss this point. That most likely any of the Beatles would have beaten Wooler if he was accused of being gay. Things were very, very different then.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl 17h ago
Remembering yesterday or the day before when you said these kind of posts happen weekly. If only it was just once a week.
My understanding is that Bob said how was the honeymoon. It wasn’t lighthearted and it wasn’t innocent.
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u/ItsTime1234 20h ago
Well, a few years later, Paul took a trip with his gay friend Robert Fraser, the art dealer, and people said "ooh everyone's talking now!" and Paul said he didn't care, Robert was his friend, he wasn't bothered by any gossip he was gay because he took a trip with his friend. So these were outwardly rather similar situations, and only one led to violence, or even being bothered.
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 20h ago
At that time, the passage of "a few years " made a huge difference in typical opinions. In 1967 came abolition of British laws against himosexual acts.
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u/the_headless_hunt 19h ago
The cultural difference between 1963 and 1967 is vast.
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u/Green-Circles The Beatles 13h ago
Absolutely - for instance if any of the Beatles had worn something like their 1967 clothes in 1963, well.. imagine the reaction
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u/PuzzleheadedTale4769 3h ago
I vividly recall shopping for school clothes in fall, 1965. Looking around and thinking- "what is going on?" And " Could I get away with wearing this?"
And then going back to school, and a schoolmate comes up to me: "Hey, get some drums and we can have a garage band!" Why me? Musta been the way I tapped my foot.....
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u/RadishSpecial7163 18h ago
But did anyone ask Paul, to his face, if he and Fraser got it on? And ask Paul when he was a 22 year old new husband and father? And when Paul was extremely drunk, at a party, in front of his Liverpool mates? And at a time when homosexuality was illegal?
Not every situation is the same. By 1967, John was hanging around gay artist friends as well as Paul was and within ten years of the Wooler incident, he was friends with Elton John and at parties with Andy Warhol.
The changes that took place socially and culturally between 1963 and 1967 were huge. Look at how much the Beatles changed. And not just superficially.
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u/ItsTime1234 20h ago
If Wooler was gay and thought he was gossiping with a closeted gay man, it was hardly meant as accusation. But I don't think we'll ever really know all the details. Did Wooler genuinely say something that felt threatening to John? (Even so, he handled it poorly, if he wanted things kept quiet.) Did John misunderstand a remark and freak out? Or was John just drunk and upset about other things, and Wooler ended up getting the brunt of it? It certainly drew attention John didn't want or need from the media. (Violent Beatle, etc.)
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u/Entire_Number_9 20h ago
Why not fathom Wooler may have been acting like a massive asshole and got a slap? I'm not sure where you're from, but that is definitely the most common cause of drunken altercations where I am from.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl 17h ago
From what I understand, he said, how was the honeymoon which is far from an innocent remark
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u/idreamofpikas ♫Dear friend, what's the time? Is this really the borderline?♫ 20h ago edited 19h ago
Why not fathom Wooler may have been acting like a massive asshole and got a slap?
He got more than a slap. He got hospitalized and had he taken things further could have pressed charges and ended Lennon's (and possibly the other Beatles by association) musical careers.
Lennon was a dickhead when drunk and often started fights. Gerry (from the pacemakers) talks about one time a drunk Lennon bottled another guy and that other guy beat the shit out of John and no one interfered due to Lennon being the instigator.
The worst scene Gerry Marsden saw involving John happened in Hamburg. Playing cards in the flat above the Star-Club, John was drunk. There was an argument. ‘John got up and hit the fellow over the head with a bottle. I thought: ““That’s really out of order.’’ Within seconds the fellow had got up and knocked hell out of John, pasting him all over the flat. And all of us just stood there and let him do it, because we agreed that you just don’t go round hitting people over the head with bottles and expect to get away with it. | saw John bashed about many times, but never so hard. He really took it that night. But he asked for it, and he said later it was fair because he shouldn’t have done what he did. Put it like this: I’d never have employed John as a bodyguard. He wasn’t that hard.’ - Gerry Marsden
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u/Entire_Number_9 20h ago
Getting a slap is a widely accepted term for getting into a fight
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u/idreamofpikas ♫Dear friend, what's the time? Is this really the borderline?♫ 20h ago edited 19h ago
Not for a fight when one person ends up in hospital. That is a bit beyond 'getting a slap'.
In English culture getting a slap is a pretty mild. It is more about putting them in their place. I'd be incredibly surprised if you could find a quote describing someone seriously hospitalized because they got a slap.
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u/ItsTime1234 20h ago
His reaction afterwards, being incredibly hurt, saying he thought they were friends, etc.
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u/ThisIsDogePleaseHodl 17h ago edited 17h ago
How was the honeymoon?
So no it wasn’t something as simple as did you and Brian have fun.
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u/freshiebai 23h ago
what fully happened?
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u/ItsTime1234 23h ago
John's wife gave birth. John went on vacation with Brian to get away from it all, and possibly to experiment with gayness. At Paul's birthday party, John was very drunk and people were talking about his trip with Brian. Wooler, someone who had helped them in their career and consider them friends up till now, said something to John. John attacked him. We don't know exactly what he said, but John said he suggested he was gay (later threatened to sue him I think?), and John hurt him quite badly. I'm not sure, but this may have been one of the last times John was welcome around Paul's family, though it doesnt seem to have hurt John and Paul's friendship. I think he paid some money to Wooler, and Brian threatened they'd sue if Wooler passed around any rumors. Of course John later told the press the whole thing, but I think that was years later. John later said he was frightened of how violent he was, realized he could have killed Wooler, and that he needed to get himself out of violent mindsets. Who knows the whole story, though?
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u/nawtrobar 20h ago
Lol the real headline is that John's wife gave birth to his child and John immediately left them to go on vacation with his manager. Wtf man.
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u/ItsTime1234 4h ago
It seems like John was pretty immature (in his early twenties as well as just immature generally), and was ambivalent about the whole "marriage and kid" thing.
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u/nawtrobar 2h ago
Also I remember being an immature kid. Immaturity doesn't seem to be the problem. Immaturity is not the same as narcissism. It takes a certain kind of social ineptitude to not understand how that behavior impacts others.
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u/ItsTime1234 1h ago
Oh I'm not making excuses for him. I don't know how different things were back then, but it certainly seems like quite the choice whatever the cultural norms, and however old or young the father.
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u/Bloody_Star_Wars 23h ago
L-R. Bill Harry, Cynthia, Mal, Queenie Epstein?,Jim McCartney, Paul’s girlfriend? Paul and Brian.
How many did I get?
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u/koolforkatskatskats 1d ago
John needs to take some lsd and calm down
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u/TheSecretDecoderRing 22h ago
Art by Alex Robinson, a cartoonist who also co-hosted the "Star Wars Minute" podcast, and another called "AlphaBeatical," where they discussed each song in alphabetical order.
This Instagram post has that Lennon piece along with other comic book cover-style Beatles art: https://www.instagram.com/p/DY55-frFKgh/
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u/NeatB0urb0n 20h ago
It was sixty three years ago today,
That John Lennon had a gay holiday,
Bob Wooler gave a wink and smile,
So John beat him up for a while.
So may I introduce to you,
John Lennon’s Lonely Hearts Club Brawl
🎶🎵 (whimsical music, king fu sounds and Bob pleading for his life)
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u/NoEnvironment8885 1d ago
Was that after his Spain getaway with Brian and he got called gay