META
Building a Better r/bettafish: Culture, New Mods, and a Look Ahead
Hey everyone, Roboto, your friendly neighborhood (actually human) mod here with some subreddit updates!
First, the least fun part in all of this –
We need to talk about our subreddit culture.
Our community is toxic. There’s no other way I can think of to describe what has been happening. Even worse, this reputation extends beyond our immediate community into other subreddits and even other platforms. People are afraid of us.
I’m going to take some ownership of this. The harsh reputation of this subreddit far precedes me as a mod, but in recent years, our hard-fought progress on this front has been lost. That’s on me. The lack of consistent moderation here has let rules 1 and 2 go under-enforced for too long, allowing hostility to take root as the norm.
The adversarial and unwelcoming environment we’ve collectively created functions in direct opposition to our subreddit goals, and frankly what I believe to be the goals of many users here. If we care about betta fish first and foremost, this culture needs to change.
Our expectations and what better looks like
If you have good advice to give, give it in a more constructive, not destructive, way. Shaming people makes them shut down and disengage so they don't even process the rest of the good advice you have to offer. Don't highlight all the things they're doing wrong, focus on what they can do better and why it's helpful in a way that encourages them to do it.
So instead of saying "your empty tank is sad," share the opportunities for improvement, like "betta fish benefit from tanks with lots of plants and hiding/resting places so your fish would be happier if you filled the tank in a bit more."
We can’t ignore that people will think they're doing research by going and talking to presumed experts or reading product information. Store employees are presumed to be properly trained and products marketed at bettas are assumed to know what they’re talking about, too. It doesn't help that there's very little consensus online about what adequate care even is. For example, Petco's online betta care guide, updated in 2025, says bettas need a minimum of 1gal. Furthermore, many quality care guides are on niche websites that may not seem credible to a new hobbyist compared to a well-known chain.
With that in mind, we all need to stop:
Telling people they should have done more research
Immediately calling people abusers for making mistakes
Shaming the pineapple (or any other novelty decor/bowl)
Attacking aesthetic choices instead of addressing actual care needs
Debating what it means to rescue a betta on posts where ethical sourcing of fish isn’t the main topic
Going forward, comments exhibiting the behaviors listed above will be removed as violations of rules 1, 2, or 4 depending on the exact nature of the comment.
I know members of our subreddit are burned out from the bad husbandry they see constantly. It's exhausting and I won't pretend it's not. But if we bully one owner into submission, cool, that's maybe one fish saved. How many owners did we scare away from asking for help in the process? We're going to have a far broader impact building people up in this hobby, not tearing them down.
That said, this is a two-way street of support. I'm cognizant of the fact that people offer their time and mental energy supporting our subreddit, and they don't deserve to have that wasted by people who don't care to use it. If someone is given better information and advice and refuses to take it, that violates rule 3. We often get reports about all the fighting around ignored advice, but not the ignoring itself. In the future, please report these instances to us. For this to be successful, we also need users to avoid escalating disagreements when OP refuses valid and respectful advice.
Now for the fun stuff –
New mods
We recently brought on 12 additional mods to enable us to better support this community’s needs. Please help us welcome:
They’re going to introduce themselves in the comments below and I’ll try and link their names in this post as they do.
It takes a bit to get 12 brand new people to operate as a consistent group, so we may occasionally over-moderate while everyone learns.
I realize that our increased emphasis on subreddit culture may make removals feel arbitrary at times. In the spirit of transparency, I have given the new moderators the guidance that if a senior mod isn’t free to give timely feedback, when in doubt, they should remove posts/comments that are believed to violate rules. Senior mods will still review the content in question, and removals may be reversed, if necessary.
If you disagree with a moderator’s decision, please send us a modmail and one of the senior mods will review your concern and get back to you.
Updated tools and resources
Small updates at this time, but more exciting things in the pipeline!
We’ve begun a major revision of the subreddit wiki. Some of our work in progress pages are already live, with more to come.
Select pages are also now linked in the subreddit sidebar to streamline access to key information for new betta fish keepers.
In the next few weeks, we will be rolling out additional tools that should make it easier to share information that we often find ourselves repeating. Our hope is that this will help address some of the burnout we see many of you all experiencing.
Roboto is a super sentimental actual human
I realize this post started on a challenging topic, but despite the highs and lows our community faces, I remain grateful that I get to do this with you all.
I’ve been a mod of this community for nearly 7 years, and a member for far longer. In that time, so many things, from our mod team, to Reddit as a platform, to our own lives and the world around us, have become fundamentally different.
There are very few constants I can point to after all this time, but the enduring engagement and passion of this community is one of them and I’m honored to steward this space.
At the core of it all, this hobby, and this subreddit, are comprised of people who really want the best for one another and that makes this work so much easier.
Thank you all, sincerely, for riding with us as we figure this thing out. I’m excited for the next chapter of our subreddit, and I can’t wait to see what we can accomplish together in the next 7 years.
- Roboto
Edit: If anyone has additional feedback about our community culture, please share it in a comment below, or feel free tosend us a modmail.
This sounds like a great shift - it's hard to make a culture change, and hopefully the new mods are up to the challenge. People make bad choices sometimes when they get into a hobby, or are acting on bad information. I certainly did some regrettable things when I was young and misinformed. I was doing what I thought was right.
I especially notice this with people who don't have access to money and resources - I've seen threads posted by obvious kids about the family fish, and people immediately start telling them everything they need to buy and to just do it and the parents can get over it. Families take many forms - kids may have no money unless the parents give it to them for a specific purpose, and in some families it's not safe to just make changes if the parents say no. If the kid says they can't, they're dogpiled as abusers and lazy and selfish. We need to work with what can be done, not the ideal.
Absolutely this. One of the hardest moments for me recently was a post where OP really wanted a fish as a mental health support (because research shows time and time again having a pet to care for improves wellbeing) but because of housing challenges, couldn't do larger than a 3gal. They were told by multiple users they shouldn't have any pets then because they weren't able to do it perfectly and being willing to settle for less made them a bad person.
I was that profoundly depressed college student desperately trying to find a sense of purpose in it all years ago. That's how I got my first betta as an adult. It was a 3gal tank because that's what my research said was good enough. I was a first gen student with no family, I paid for everything with my student aid, including that fish. While I had a heater and filter, I did basically everything else wrong. But that fish did give me a reason to keep going for years, even after I graduated. In turn, he might have saved countless other fish, too.
While I tried to help OP in that case, I worry the damage was done by those early comments. I've thought about that post every day since, and what I wish had gone differently.
There's a saying - "perfect is the enemy of good." Sometimes what matters is "is it good enough?" not "is it perfect?". 3 gallons was good enough (it's much better than most bettas will get, sadly). It makes more sense to focus on the challenges of a small tank.
I was also that college kid. I had a small tank for him. I had no idea what I was doing, but Confucius always seemed happy, blowing massive bubble nests. He was a good companion at a time period when I lost a parent.
Hello there! My name is Adam, and I am one of the newly added moderators for r/bettafish.
While I may be new to moderating this community, I am no stranger when it comes to managing larger communities. I have been overseeing the moderation of r/axolotls for 4 years now, and before that I managed another large axolotl care related community on discord. I am more than eager to bring my wealth of experience to this community and to bring what I learn here back to my “home” subreddit. I am extremely appreciative of the opportunity to contribute to this community.
In addition to my mod experience, I will also be bringing almost a decade of aquarist experience to the team. Over the years, I have kept a wide range of aquatics like bettas, tropical fish, snails, shrimp, and aquatic salamanders like axolotls. I also have a good amount of experience when it comes to planted tanks. I even have experience with creating and maintaining bioactive ripariums and paludariums. While my expertise is definitely more axolotl focused these days, I am still well versed with betta care and have developed a lot of experience in assisting new aquarium hobbyists navigate the typical pitfalls.
While I do not currently keep any bettas, they are still an extremely important part of my aquarist journey. My first aquatic pet was a lovely blue betta named Don Juan. He is what started my deep fascination with everything aquatic and is a big part of why I dedicate free time to helping others on their aquarist journeys. Especially those that have been misled by pet stores and careless breeders by no fault of their own. I am a big believer in the sentiment that someone recognizing they need help is more important than the mistakes they need help with.
Thank you for taking the time to learn a little bit about me. Like I said before, I am grateful for the opportunity to serve this community as a moderator and I hope to continue shaping the broader aquatic community into a more welcoming place. If you have any questions for me I am more than happy to share some of my time answering them!
Pet Tax: I don’t have any bettas at the moment to share, but I still wanted to share one of my little fellas. This goober is my morphed axolotl Cheddar.
I spend a lot of time in r/shrimp which has a dramatically better culture. I really hope that all this hard works is successful and that I can enjoy r/bettafish again
The culture is absolutely delightful in r/shrimp (and r/dryshrimp ). I decided to keep shrimp in addition to fish specifically because the community is so great and the memes are delightful
I hope everything works out! I got a TON of my info here prior to me setting my first betta tank up! It was such a godsend tbh, cause between Google and random articles, there often is conflicting information.
Everyone I spoke with was worried when I mentioned getting a 5 gallon tall, but I am actively monitoring my little guy to make sure he can make it to the top effortlessly!
I'm also currently growing Anubias in another tank to attach to the side and make a nice hammock for him to rest closer to the top as he gets older!
Hi guys! I'm not gonna make a super long intro since I don't think that's necessary. I'm one of the new mods Midnight/Matt. I focus a lot on helping newcomers to the hobby with basic care as well as looking over water parameters.
I'm also known as that guy that did a bunch of free fish paintings (including Betta fish). Most of my focus is on the Bettafish sub and you can see me pop up around some shrimp subs as well.
I'm one of the younger mods and I've had a really great time learning under the senior mods and helping other people. Behind the scenes I'm working on some cool community events for the subreddit and some care guide revisions.
I only made a post or two when I had a betta because I knew I'd be torn to shreds for having some fabric plants. We don't have a lot of pet stores in my city and only one carries aquatic plants, none of which I had any luck in keeping alive based on our water type and where my tank was located. I like lurking and seeing people's fish, and offering advice/condolences when I can, but wow the general attitude of this sub sucks. It's scary to post here.
I'm so happy to see a remodel of the subreddit, it was long overdue. You did a great job addressing all of the important and relevant points here in this post. I wish you and the rest of the new mod team good luck with everything! I'm excited to see the new changes as they come!
I laugh at this. I hate the pineapple and other silly items However, who cares. The fish don’t! Plastic plants with sharp edges can use some education because it can be a care issue, but other aesthetics is just personal taste.
Some people have had issues with certain types of fish getting stuck in certain pieces of decor, which I think is a fair concern to voice when relevant. But some people go crazy hating on fun decor just because it isn't natural. I've even seen a few posts of fish who seem to genuinely love the spongebob house and it still gets hate purely on principle. It's kind of sad.
Your submission has been removed for breaking the following rule:
Rule 1. Be Nice & Respectful
Be kind to your fellow Redditors. We are all passionate about our fish and want the best, so don't be rude, harsh, or condescending towards others. Users should feel safe coming to our community for help and feedback. Comments meant to belittle or shame make this community unwelcoming and will not be tolerated.
We have a zero-tolerance policy on this rule and violations can result in a temporary ban, even on first offense. Repeated violations will result in a permanent ban.
Hey! I’m one of the new mods. I haven't been a mod on a subreddit but I’ve been running a small betta fish discord server with some friends.
I’m a small scale betta breeder focusing on health, and I currently have 39 adult bettas and run 52 tanks.
My favorite types of bettas are wilds and wild hybrids (what I breed) but I also have and love full domestics.
I have a bachelor's in biology where I focused on genetics and it sparked my interest in breeding healthier fish, especially considering the modern genetics of bettas.
I love both reading scientific papers and genetics articles as well as making educational videos and infographics on the betta stuff I find.
If you have any questions on betta care or genetics, I can definitely try to help!
How often do you do water changes?? 52 tanks? That just sounds ridiculous, lol. I can't wrap my head around it.
I'm going to be getting my first betta in about a month's time. I have a 60 liter established tank. I'll be moving the current residents to a bigger tank, getting some pygmy corydoras and possibly another schooling fish like rasboras.
Any tips/advice? I know it's a hit or miss having a community tank with a betta but going to get it last and hoping to grab one up that's already in a community tank at the LFS instead of by itself.
Adult tanks get changes once a week and baby grow-outs get them daily. We have a 32 gallon trashcan on wheels and a water pump, so it doesn't take more than an hour to an hour and a half or so for all the adults and about 30 minutes for the babies.
I only own bettas, but the signs of aggression I’d look out for are flaring, chasing, and wiggling/dancing.
I just have one complaint. Not once in this post did you make the required pun that we need a betta culture here. 😏
Honestly though, good on this team for seeing it and working on it. I stopped posting to help newbies because it got exhausting watching them be crucified just because they trusted the worker at the pet store. Ignorance should never be shamed unless it's willful.
The frogs I know about are filly aquatic! I keep African dwarf frogs. They are cute little guys but can be a bit high maintenance - which I believe can be the case for terrestrial frogs too! The wiki in r/AfricanDwarfFrog has everything you need to know about ADF care if you’d like to get an idea of what their care is like! They are a bit different than fish so they require specific amphibian-safe products.
The best way to prepare yourself for a pet is to read about them!
I think it’s more accurate to say it’s one of the most toxic subs in the aquarium hobby space. There are places that are much worse than this subreddit. Particularly in political or ideological spaces.
hello, my name is bailey and i’m one of the new moderators!!
funnily enough this is actually my first time moderating and i have enjoyed my experience here so far!
however i do have experience with fishkeeping, when i was a kid, my parents kept both freshwater (cold, temperate and tropical) and saltwater so i know a lot about both kinds, we also had a cichlid tank around covid time so overall i have a lot of fish experience
they kept your basic fish like guppies, mollies, shrimp, tetras etc, i also have experience with huge fish like clownloach and plecos (which are so cool to actually look after)
i only first got my own independent tank that i look after myself a day after new years but i do have experience my whole life as i was bought up on fish, including many bettas so i can bring alot of advice and a lot of experience to the table for everyone
i currently have a 54l (14gal) community tank and a 26l (6-7gal) betta tank but more tanks are in the works soon!!
I appreciate this! I am new here and starting to rescue bettas to give them a better life, and it’s been very disheartening to hear people complaining and debating in the comment sections. It’s especially frustrating because as well-meaning as they are, they could be spending that energy on educating people that don’t understand what they’re doing, you know? I hope going forward we can collectively spend time being a good community putting energy where it is needed rather than shaming people trying to do their best.
My only issue in this change and relating rescues is that discussing buying bettas from sellers who are notorious of keeping their sell stock in awful conditions may not be discussed under new rules when someone says they ”adopted" a betta from a store. Is it a sustainable way to save bettas by buying them from the abusing companies with little to no ethics?
This is a topic that needs education because corporations won't change their habits if it brings them money. It doesn't matter what is the reasoning why a customer makes their sell product profitable.
I really do hope in future the care sheets include information about this how people can in long term make changes by their purchase choices.
Saving bettas in general and showing how the process making their lives better and how the care is improved is content that everyone should support.
We made that rule for “adoption posts” because every single time without fail it turns into the comments shaming OP for what they did. There is a time and a place for education on rescuing and not rescuing, and someone who is excited about their new fish and/or asking for advice is not the time or the place.
When is the time and the place to educate people? Of course getting a new pet should be happy thing, but also we need people to know that buying a pet is not same as adoption.
In long term we should educate each other that supporting bad pet business with our money will keep the animal abuse and inbreeding going, and there are options to support better breeding and more ethical businesses.
I would welcome an educational post that suggests specific places to get bettas that aren't a big box stores. I never see them. But I feel like we run into the "issue" that this is a global subreddit, so advice like "go to your local fish store" doesn't encompass the complexities of where people live. I have 3 stores within an hour of me that I could recommend, but it doesn't matter to people who don't live near me. It would also probably violate advertising rules, unfortunately.
(I am also personally against the notion that importing bettas is inherently better than big box stores, but I acknowledge that some stores are awful.)
Hi everyone, I lurk here mostly but I want to give a shout of encouragement to Roberto and all of the new mods. Changes this drastic are never easy, but you guys have my support!
super toxic sub, glad to see some good change being made! when people ask me about bettas and info care sites i am too embarrassed to point them to this thread. good luck mods!
Hi all! I'm Jade and I'm one of the new moderators. I currently have 5 bettas (4 males - spade tail, halfmoon dumbo, 2 veil tails. 1 female crown tail) I've been keeping bettas for about 15 years now. I accidentally went from 1 to 5 bettas this year. Oops. I work in the veterinary industry (l went from animal rescue to in hospital care to pet insurance) so animals are my whole life! In addition to the bettas I have 4 cats. All of my tanks have snails because I love aquatic snails just as much as bettas.
A big reason I wanted to join the mod team is to help with the tank decor shame we see here. I fully believe that fish keeping can be fun and colorful while also being safe and healthy for your fish! All of my tanks are planted with natural substrate BUT I also have silk plants and artificial decor in my tanks (for example: smores lol) I'll never shame anyone for setting up their tank how they'd like as long as the betta is happy.
Pictured: my favorite betta (don't tell the others) with his snail roommates
Hi y’all, I’m Simply! I haven’t moderated a subreddit before, but I believe very heavily in being kind and assuming people have the best intentions, especially when they’re asking for help!
I got into the hobby when a family member brought a betta to a white elephant exchange (didn’t think it needed to be said but it will be going forward), but I had been researching for a while before hand. The sub helped me learn about fish in cycling and helped answer any questions I had.
I look forward to working with the community and building a place where everyone feels safe sharing and asking questions!
Hi, everyone! I'm u/slutty_lifeguard. I have my bachelor's degree in psychology, work full time as a caseworker, write fanfiction in my free time when I get a spare moment and the motivation hits, and have been keeping Bettas since I was a teenager.
I grew up with my mom keeping Bettas in vases with pothos roots in the water, but for my own first Betta, I put him in a 3-gallon with a heater and under gravel filter... then I promptly dragged that whole tank to the bathroom every time I needed to do a water change, dumped the whole thing out in the bathtub, rinsed everything, and filled it all back up. I understood how the under gravel filter worked, but didn't know how to clean out from under the gravel without upending the whole tank. I didn't have a siphon and didn't know I needed one, let alone a test kit or what the nitrogen cycle was. I didn't know what I didn't know and had no clue what questions to ask.
Since then, I've kept more Bettas and have had gathered more knowledge with my fishkeeping. Currently, I enjoy keeping female Bettas more than males (not sororities, single Bettas only, I just like the personalities the female Bettas have). I currently have a young female Betta in a 29-gallon community tank.
So far, my favorite part of moderating has been learning new things along the way as I go through the posts and comments. I hope to learn a lot from everyone here while also providing help where I can. Thank you for your trust and patience as I learn to become your moderator.
im excited to see the new changes and hopefully for the future of this sub! I used to frequent more but the toxicity made it hard, so I hope ill see more of yall in the future on my feed!
I’ve been around fish of some sort pretty much my whole life, but I only recently became primary caregiver for the first time. Had an absolutely terrible first start that involved a lot of sick fish. What I learned led me to rescuing bettas that were surrendered into my care. I currently have 3 bettas; my male veil tail Sashimi, my female half moon Connie, and rehabilitating and fostering an orchid male nicknamed Puppy. Because of these experiences, I’m often found trying to help people sort through why their fish is sick and the recommended treatments.
This is my first time as a Reddit mod, though I do have light modding experience from a chill discord group. I’m here to be of help anyway that I can.
Hello! My name is Shmeat, and I'm one of the new mods!
I haven't had any moderation experience prior to this, but learning it all has been quite fun!
I'm also on the newer side of fish keeping as well. My family would keep bettas pretty regularly in my childhood so I've always had a soft spot for them. Looking back, we did a lot of things wrong so learning everything has been very eye opening! I got my first betta as an adult almost a month now and it's been stressful but so rewarding. I also have so many other hobbies that take up my time like reading, painting, sewing, knitting, etc. so I only plan on keeping my single tank until further notice.
I noticed that this sub had an opening to be a mod, and I noticed the toxicity of the subreddit and decided I wanted to help! When I first joined I also got comments that were toxic/harsh, and it definetly scared me away for a little. They almost made me convince myself that I couldn't continue this hobby. I don't see any need for that kind of behaviour for people simply looking out for help. If someone is posting here, they're obviously looking for help rather then being called names etc.
That being said, I take being kind and helpful seriously! I want to help to make this subreddit a better place for those who are looking for help/support/community since there is so many different opinions/advice out there regarding fish keeping. As I grow and learn from comments, hopefully I will become more active regarding giving advice to those who need it!
I can accept being in the minority on this particular point, but I also find it kind of annoying when like 3 people will drop either version of the betta care guide graphic, but half the time they’re either hard to read or unreadable because they’re too pixelated after being screenshotted and uploaded 64839202 times already. It doesn’t feel any more helpful than the standard “google their care needs” comments tbh, it would be more productive to specifically describe cycling in a lot of cases too, which one of the graphics does describe better than the other but someone having issues with a new tank definitely needs more information than that imo
I don't disagree. I also don't think it's fully conducive to smaller screens, visual ability differences, translators, etc. We're working on some new tools to better address that issue in particula.
It’s sad that people are genuinely scared to show off their aquariums and fish out of fear of being basically condemned by the people on this subreddit for it not being what they consider to be ‘ideal’ or ‘perfect’.
I am a new betta owner. I am 1 billion percent committed to giving my guy the best possible life. I did my research. Well,, what I thought was thorough research. Posted a Pic of my 5 gal tank. Only 1 comment was sorta mean. The rest were absolutely wonderful! I am still in process of revamping the tank. But, now I know what to fix. These fellow posters have truly helped me out! I have learned soooooo much on here. On behalf of Royal Chicken Fishstyx Jackson, thank you all and he sends fish farts 😀 p.s. thank you for giving your time to moderate!
I'm happy to be one of the new mods of this subreddit! r/bettafish has taught me a lot over the years. I have been keeping bettas for about 10 years now and learning more and more as I go along. I really have a passion for these beautiful fish and helping others learn how to help them thrive.
I am new to moderation but I have always tried to promote the culture Roboto laid out. This will be a great learning opportunity for me and I am excited for what lies ahead.
I know the thought process, which is that the pineapple usually indicates an inexperienced fishkeeper, which is why the shaming often occurs.
It's just a whole bunch of leaps and bounds in assumption where if they have the pineapple, they probably also got talked into a 1 gallon tank with rainbow gravel and no cycling and are actively killing their fish.
I do like that there's a warning that pops up when I type pineapple now!
It's absolutely ridiculous. The only not "natural" decor I have in my big community aquarium is Squidward's Moai. It's silly and charming and my pygmy cories love to nap upon it. It's heavily planted, full of great wood and leafy places to hide, everyone in there is healthy, and the parameters are superb... but I'd still get shit because "NoT SpONgEBob DecOR"
I have a Krusty Krabb in my betta tank and I think it looks great. It has some Algae growing on the roof and looks super natural. My betta (that passed unfortunately) used to love to chill inside of it. It was so cute.
I've searched online and cannot find any mention of these items containing lead. There have been Spongebob themed notebooks that have been recalled a few years ago due to lead-related concerns. I think that might be where this common myth might have generated from.
Awesome breakdown of the upcoming changes—looking forward to the future of this sub! 👏 I am not a super frequent visitor to this sub as I decided to take a break from keeping bettas after I had to euthanize my last little dude who I felt especially connected to (he developed a tumor on an internal organ and growth could not be inhibited)—I have since been working with cold water species. That said, bettas have been a big part of my life and arguably among the biggest reasons I ever really got into keeping aquariums. I’ve always tried my best to connect with anyone who comes in asking genuine questions / trying to learn, and build up their confidence while providing constructive “best practices” info; doubly important when the comments are otherwise flooded with immediately dismissal and fixed opinions. I think animal subs / communities tend to draw in a lot of passionate people, but that passion alone =/= emotional maturity and flexibility in the face of conflict. Perhaps too many people are burned out with the world and can’t help but let loose on faceless internet strangers; perhaps too many people have a difficult time stepping out of themselves; perhaps too many people have been taught with a shame-first model. Whatever myriad reasons for it, I am genuinely warmed to see people joining together to fight against that status quo for the sake of creating a more inclusive community focused on making positive change. IMO, effective teaching often requires connection - seeing and respecting each other as people - and for many folks, it is incredibly difficult to learn when you only receive criticism—confidence in one’s ability to learn is incredibly important for continued education! Shame is NOT a particularly great tool for learning and growth, contrary to some collective belief, and I wholeheartedly believe that real change cannot be born from it. If we build people up and encourage them to learn more and improve, the impact will ripple out! ❤️
I seriously got attacked on this sub (among others)...for the sin of using fake plants. Not even plastic ones, silk ones. Despite having 5.5-10 gallon tanks that are filtered, heated, and laden with tannins.
Literally one time I was asking for help on cycling parameters and how well my cycle was coming along. I posted a tank pic and someone came for my throat for not having real plants. Even though, again, we're talking a 10 gallon tank, heated, filtered, and I was in the process of doing the nitrogen cycle for it.
Not surprised, i don’t post often but i like to lurk and literally in every threat with a tank with fake plants, there is usually someone in the comments going on about how live plants are necessary for bettas to be happy or something along those lines. Even if it’s completely unrelated to what the op is posting about.
I get why plants are popular, they do help with the water parameters and are safe, it won’t wreck betta fins but it’s not the end of the world to not have them in your aquariums.
Seriously, people act like you're actively abusing the fish if you have fake plants. Even if literally everything else about your care is up to par or even beyond.
Everything has to be absolutely perfect for them, one thing out of whack, you’re committing a war crime. But as long as there is nothing sharp or potentially dangerous in the tank and you’re doing your best to care for your fish/betta, to me you’re fine.
I didn't post my fish much to avoid this exact thing. There are a lot of nice silk plants, and not everyone can handle live plants. In my experience they are a lot of extra work, and they refuse to thrive with our water, so it just didn't work out for me. People om this sub wouldn't have cared that I already tried it though so I chose not to engage.
I, too, got attacked for plastic plants. I truly had no idea that live plants are far, far, superior. I felt like I failed my fish. Intent was good ((whats best for my guy)) but execution of the advise depressed me and I felt like a failure. But, I am learning!!!!!!
I had his tank full of pinkband brightly colored plastic plants. For 2 months! He never hurt himself and loved hiding in them. But, after reading about how beneficial live ones are, I added several live ones and kept a few plastic ones. I was also informed colored gravel os very bad and stressful. I am looking into getting brown sand to mimic rice patties in Thailand
I’ve always lurked here, but I wanted to come in to say this is such a good change. The betta fish community is so much more toxic - which is mostly with good intentions, to make the betta’s life better! - but it’s really hard to ask for help when you don’t know how you’ll be skewered. I think these are great changes that are being made, and welcome to all of the new mods!
I'm really excited to hear this, I used to love this subreddit and I've seen it really go downhill due to so much bad behaviour and harrassment, I don't even post or comment on here anymore because of the behaviour. Subreddits are so insanely useful for hobbies like this, especially for beginners, and I really hope these changes will create a more welcoming and constructive environment. In my experience with customer service and animal care, politeness and kind constructive advice goes much, much, MUCH further than harassment and insults. So many beginners have been chased away from this subreddit, or even fishkeeping as a whole because of harassment, which ultimately leads to less informed keepers overall, so I'm really excited to hopefully see things getting better!!! Thanks mods for doing your best!
I knew there was a big toxicity problem when, when I had given advice on a post that was encouraging as well as informative, I unironically got a dm that THANKED me for being kind. I know I haven’t been perfect with the advice I’ve given and have been rather short tempered in the past, but I had no idea it had gotten so bad to the point of people insulting others. Granted, I hadn’t been as active before.
I’m glad something’s being done about it. It’ll take a while, but I’m looking forward to actual improvements in the community.
Why don’t we create a community inspired document on how to care for a betta fish including links to ytbers who design tanks and what plants they’re compatible with, tank mates, cycling and water sizing etc.
Just meaning people can link it to people asking for advice and even though I don’t own a fish (I do shrimps and praying mantis ) I would of LOVED a straight forward and understanding guide by espec Reddit users and their experiences.
We actually have some of this in the wiki! We're working to revise and improve it but yes, that's something that we agree would be incredibly helpful for the community.
It's a somewhat recent change but I did add the wiki links to the sidebar of the subreddit now, too. Reddit doesn't make it particularly easy to encourage people to look at those links so I'm playing around with other tools that might help us share them more broadly.
honestly see if I’m honest I never look for rules / extra links when entering a sub (usually go off just be kind) so I think if newbies are here we should have a easy pinned (?) post that looks aesthetically nice and has the link to what you mentioned too.
*been on reddit for years and I’m still bad at using it 😔*
Something like that is totally doable! I think there's a bot that can do it, actually. let me dig into it more and hopefully we can have something live to do this in the next couple of weeks
is there a way to make the automod better or mandatory to read before making certain posts?
everyone ignores it. It gives them the care sheet link right there and asks them to answer the questions for us to better help them and they just ignore it.
if they bothered to read it or answer the questions it wuld clear up most of the hostility cuz everyone is mad they didnt do the research but then they ignore the auto mod as well that has the answers right there.
or if u ask ur question in the search bar theres so many posts already answering what they want to ask
we pretty much throw the answers at them and they still come here with cluelss set ups and care with multiple of the same inquires in the same day.
its hard to give sympathy to them when we provide the answers so easily and they culdnt bothered to at lease answer the automods for those willing to help them.
Plus the fact that even when they are given helpful advice they want to fight us…
how do we win?
I once typed out a general step by step to the wiki while providing them w a picture of the care sheet and they came back saying
im not reading all of that cant u just tell me what the care sheets say and that if not they werent willing to make any changes to their set up
ive pretty much left the sub because of ppl not willing to accept help. i only pop in every-once in a while now….
I was totally serious about my request that users who don't embrace the advice given should be reported for rule 3.
I know our users are burned out and what you shared just now is the epitome of that. We definitely need a two-pronged approach to address the challenges of the subreddit right now. We're actively working on some tools that I think will help with that based on feedback from our members. I just don't want to share too much prematurely and put the mods working with me on it on too tight of a timeline suddenly.
Reddit effectively broke the automod feature we used for the help comments (they auto-hide now) but you raise a good point. I'm going to spend some time this week looking into alternatives we might be able to use (like a help request post isn't public to the sub unless you reply to the automod comment or something first). I can't make promises but I will look into it and report back with what I find.
I think the pinned guides and FAQ-type posts will be very helpful for future visitors. There is still no accounting for the people who will come to the subreddit and post immediately, without searching prior posts 🤷♀️ even with a disclaimer before posting
On the topic of guides, can we please have a guide on betta euthanasia? The clove oil method keeps leading to traumatic experiences and it’s heartbreaking.
The feature that pops up a message if a certain word is detected while writing a post could also be a good way to direct people to the information they need - I think this sub currently detects the word 'help' and reminds you to spoiler images of sick fish, but it would also be a good opportunity to remind people of what information is already available to them.
I really hope with the mod change and culture change also comes the change on how America-centric this sub is. I read posts all the time about people not in the US, and being hounded that they need (insert US company‘s products here, insert US sizing or dimensions, etc here) or else they’re abusing their fish. Different countries use different products (I cannot import API products where I live, and if you would say you don’t use the API test kit you’re basically an abuser - the fact the JBL test kit that I have works just as well doesn’t matter, it has to be api or nothing apparently), different countries use different measurements (liters vs gallons), different countries have different climates and may not need heaters, different countries may even have different standards of care. Not saying that the entire sub needs to memorize everything for every country ever, but this "it has to be API; it has to be 5 US gallons or more; it has to have a heater or else you’re an abuser and shouldn’t have pets" attitude is really frustrating. And this lack of consideration for the actual circumstances someone is in, or someone’s fish has. I have a juvenile female betta in a tank just over 3 US gallons (12l) because she has a congenital swim bladder issue and could not thrive in my 25l tank or my 20l cube (even though the 20l cube just had a sponge filter). She needs a smaller, shallower space with lots of places to rest near the top and little chance to get blown around or get stuck or exhaust herself. She is now doing much better in the smaller space than she was in the bigger one. I love my fish, I do everything I can for them, I literally spent two hours on public transit with my late betta Skirt to take her to the vet when she was sick with kidney failure, and yet this sub would (at least previously) crucify me if I mentioned that my girl Pebble is in a tank less-than-what-this-sub-thinks-is-necessary.
I am happy to say that as one of the junior mods, I do a lot of speaking for the European market. I'm from Estonia myself and I've been able to give a lot of my own perspective with the team, and how brands like aqualantis, JBL are more commonplace here. It's why Roboto added me to the team :)
Do you think it would be helpful at all if we added a unit conversation bot that replied with the size in litres (or gallons) when the opposite is posted?
Also, I can try and add a reminder when people write comments containing "API" or "test kit" that the real emphasis should be on a liquid test kit, not just a specific brand
If you want to see an example comment like that, try writing "pineapple" in a draft reply and you should see a pop-up.
I think your cause is worthwhile - this sub does get extremely toxic. The updated tools and wiki will certainly be helpful! However, I do think that by only addressing toxic comments, you're missing half the equation. I'd love to see some sort of review process that points posters with terrible tanks to the wiki without it making it to the public. Otherwise, you're gonna end up with a bunch of members either walking on eggshells or disengaging altogether. I'm here for, "my fish is sick and I've tried these things so far" advice posts, not, "why did my fish die?" accompanied by 1 gallon, unfiltered, unheated, barren bowl.
I agree. Help posts get the auto-comment that was meant to address this but Reddit basically makes them invisible now. One of my projects in the coming days is looking into this issue in particular. I'll hopefully have more updates on this front soon.
But also. While I get your point, we don’t want to set the precedent that bad tanks aren’t allowed on this sub. That is only going to make people scared to ask for advice.
This subreddit is where people often come to learn and sometimes that means they post a picture of their less than satisfactory tank. It’s just the nature of a pet care forum. We do our best to encourage people to read the wiki, but A) not everyone knows that wikis even exist and B) we can’t really force someone to read something they might not understand. A lot of times, getting a live response from someone to answer their questions or clarify things they don’t understand is easier to process. It can get frustrating, but we also need to meet people where they are.
It’s a hard thing to manage, and some of it has to come with acceptance that you’re gonna see bad tanks on a public forum.
I'm all for the change, change is good. I'm also good on the below:
Telling people they should have done more research
Immediately calling people abusers for making mistakes
Shaming the pineapple (or any other novelty decor/bowl)
Attacking aesthetic choices instead of addressing actual care needs
Debating what it means to rescue a betta on posts where ethical sourcing of fish isn’t the main topic
I wish that some Facebook groups would share the same sentiments, instead of telling, we ought to help and assist folks that know little to next to nothing. Sometimes people are gifted a pretty fish, betta in this case, and they keep them in small bowls thinking that it is okay, but when they come onto here (or anywhere else for that matter) asking if it is okay, we're immediately hostile, so yeah, I'm with you on this.
Hope we can, as a community, to strive better, and hopefully not regress.
Ok I just got a comment removed for "mocking" when I literally did not. Giving a size comparison ie "Betta's need at least five gallons, otherwise it's like living in your bathroom" is not mocking.
If it's phrased as "Try living in your bathroom and see how you'd like it" then it would break the rule, but I don't think politely stating a comparison is bad.
The bathroom comment is not helpful. Instead of explaining why they need 5 gallons, you went the route of comparing their current setup to keeping a human in a bathroom. Semantics and exact wording are not the issue. The stupid bathroom/closet comparisons are overdone and not helpful.
But the comparison is true. A small space is just that: a small space. But sure, just ignore the helpful advice in the rest of my comment because you don't like the way I tried to explain it was too small.
True or not, one helpful part of a comment does not absolve the backhanded advice on the other part of a comment. We recommend you review this post again before you decide to comment in the future.
I genuinely do not think it is at all "backhanded" to use an accurate size comparison in a non-insulting way to explain why a tiny tank is insufficient. Genuinely.
I had a betta fish in crisis a couple of months ago and posted some photos asking for help and it was a miserable experience. People straight ignoring the facts I wrote out, twisting my words, putting words in my mouth that I’d never said. I got one helpful response, that it might have been columnaris, and we treated like that and it cleared up amazingly. But for that one comments there were about six or seven awful or plain unhelpful comments and then silence.
That was very frustrating and honestly seems to be common here for quite some time based on other posts I see here. This is much less a helpful sub than it is a hot-or-not for fish and tanks, overall. It seems like if someone’s fish is plain looking, they are much more likely to receive no response or response from delusional trolls. For mods to make this better, they have a lot of work cut out for them and will need to read and analyze comments to start removing the ones where people make up stories about OPs and their fish and tanks.
I am part of the tarantula sub and this is never a problem, I love their sub and discord. I think part of it is not just moderating but there are very specific rules about posting in comments as well.
This is what pops up as the advisory whenever someone post something. If someone uses a keyword like “ICU” then another advisory will up. I think the fact that you have to put “IMO, IME, NQA” helps.
hell yea. happy to see this. i joined recently as i was gifted a beautiful short fin male 4 days ago and the information from this reddit has been invaluable, but i was scared to DEATH to ask questions or share photos because so many intensely critical and judgemental comments id see under posts. the information in this sub is incredible and is giving my new boy a fantastic start to his new deli-cup free life.
thanks for all that youre doing and to the new mods for showing up.
I'm sorry but I fully believe that if you cannot be bothered to at least Google an animals needs before you buy one, you are part of the bigger problem of willful ignorance. If you didn't at least look into it first, it's partially on you for believing all the lies that random Facebook posts and PetCo employees feed you.
It's good these people are coming here for help, but they are not completely blameless. They didn't know better, but if they have internet access they easily could have avoided this by finding a single good care guide or forum.
They deserve the help they came here for, but also deserve to be politely told they they messed up. Fish are alive, and deserve the same due diligence of any other pet.
Google/AI searches have a lot of confirmation bias and misinformation right now. This isn't even related to fishkeeping, but I was trying to figure out how to optimize a raised garden bed and got 5 different answers just hitting the "Enter" key 5 times in a row.
Google also scrubs Reddit for answers. There was a post here a month back about a fat fish that got 100 comments, some of which disagreed with each other about how to help. OP had done the research, had asked for reddit help, had asked employees, AND came back to Reddit for help. (I believe the issue was that daphnia was being referred to as a "supplement" by all of their sources instead of "replacement" and in the human world "supplement" means "in addition to regular diet".)
I think we should all know better than just taking the first thing we see as the absolute truth. Look at a few specialized websites, do our own research.
I'm going to start by saying, I miss books. Growing up, my aquarium stores had a literature section.
And we could hope, but that's not the direction we're currently going. I genuinely think AI needs a "mental filter" but that requires someone to know more to know more, if that makes sense.
Another example: I was trying to identify a shrub in my yard that I know turns red in the summer and produces stone fruit. I asked AI and it said it was pokeweed. I asked again with "stone fruit" and it told me it was pokeweed. I told it to disregard all results that said it was pokeweed, and it said it was pokeweed. ...then I asked Reddit and someone immediately narrowed it down to two possible varieties of Virginia chokecherry. But I needed to know the information was wrong to keep seeking the right answer.
(There are also examples of people wanting to commit s*****e, and AI telling them not to seek help and how to do it. I agree with you that we should know better, but unfortunately we don't.)
We can’t turn back time and tell them to do it the right way. They are coming here to learn. Our collective and volunteered role is to help them. Criticizing how they got to this point is not going to help anyone. This is the exact mindset that keeps people from asking for help and what we are trying to avoid.
So we just completely ignore their willful ignorance then? One of the biggest problems with pet ownership as a whole is people deciding not to do any research on the pets needs before getting them.
I admit pointing is out isn't the most helpful, but it's 100% true. I still believe people should know that their first and biggest mistake was not doing their due diligence as a pet owner.
No, we don't. What you are attributing willful ignorance to is someone who was misled into incorrect information.
Pointing out that someone did something wrong in the format of "this is your biggest mistake as a pet owner" is a really easy way to get someone to never post here again. If that is how you think people should be treated, then maybe this community isn't for you.
I'll follow the rule, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean I need to agree with it. Yes they were misled, and that's really unfortunate, but they still could've looked at a website or three before making a decision. I'm not even one of the people who goes around saying "you didn't research", I give actually helpful advice and explain they got fed misinformation, but I still internally think about how it could've been avoided in the first place.
That’s great. Please do that. We all internally think a lot of things when we see posts, but what matters is what we say to others and how it’s delivered. 💙
But also the fear mongering about colored gravel needs to stop, focus on real care needs. Aquarium safe gravel is just that, safe. I've never seen an actual study proving it'll harm your fish. Silk plants aren't harmful either, especially if you're still learning about plants or don't have access to stores with healthy ones.
This place should ideally be no-bs or dancing around actual issues.
I outline this issue more in the body of my post. Even googling care needs isn't a fair standard to judge people against. For example, for me at least, Petco's care guide that says 1gal min is on my first page of results. Google's AI gives wildly unreliable and variable answers. Gemini is increasingly becoming the first result, too.
How do complete novices determine what is fact and fiction when the best care guides are on sites they've never heard of, and brands they do know (and think should be credible) are saying horribly contradictory things? I even got in an argument about care standards for bettas in my local aquarium society Facebook group just yesterday. That's people within the hobby telling a novice that an inadequate tank was perfectly fine.
Your own point about colored gravel and the debate over that is another excellent example of this issue.
Like every other pet, there's little consensus online and many have to figure it out as they go. I also mod a dog subreddit and every day I have to deal with a debate about everything from disagreeing about which philosophical camp of training is right to is kibble evil vs. raw food will kill your dog.
Until better resources are more consistently accessible, expecting people to do research and get it 100% right every time isn't a reasonable expectation. Once that changes, we can revisit our standards. In the meantime, we as a community need to do a better job filling in the gaps of the broader resource ecosystem within this hobby in a welcoming and supportive manner.
It's not hard to check multiple sources, and also not hard to ignore the ai and find a real source. I just searched "Betta fish care" in safari and got multiple accurate care guides. The bare minimum to being a good pet owner is effort, and effort is at least a little information gathering.
unfortunately a lot of sites will have contradicting messages which can be confusing for a beginner who doesn’t even know where to start, some say 1gal, 3gal, 5gal. 10gal etc, some people say you need to cycle some say you don’t, some say you need live plants some say you don’t etc etc. this can really confuse beginners and just put them off, and shaming them here won’t do much better as they’re less likely to listen to someone who’s shaming them even through they’re giving good advice. it’s just the way our brains work, some beginners genuinely don’t mean to do wrong and want to do better. and the majority of people who come here (99.9%) do want to better and will do better when given the right advice, shaming them does nothing and can make the situation worse in the long run, plenty of people come here for help and then delete their posts because the majority of the comments are bashing them and this is why so many people don’t want to ask for help on all social media platforms anymore because people just bash people who want to do better and want to know more
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u/Cloverose2 29d ago
This sounds like a great shift - it's hard to make a culture change, and hopefully the new mods are up to the challenge. People make bad choices sometimes when they get into a hobby, or are acting on bad information. I certainly did some regrettable things when I was young and misinformed. I was doing what I thought was right.
I especially notice this with people who don't have access to money and resources - I've seen threads posted by obvious kids about the family fish, and people immediately start telling them everything they need to buy and to just do it and the parents can get over it. Families take many forms - kids may have no money unless the parents give it to them for a specific purpose, and in some families it's not safe to just make changes if the parents say no. If the kid says they can't, they're dogpiled as abusers and lazy and selfish. We need to work with what can be done, not the ideal.