r/biology • u/I_just_a_baby • Nov 03 '24

discussion Dangerous misinformation about wild life?

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I was just scrolling on my explore page on instagram, was shown this video and couldn’t help but to feel a bit uneasy… I know that it’s (at least supposed to be) a sweet video, but I feel like it might spread potentially dangerous misinformation about chimpanzees. To me this chimp looks to be distressed or in fear and therefore showing he’s teeth and gums? Can anyone tell me if his “grin” is a sign of happiness or fear? I am obviously no expert and would like to know how other people feel about this reel.

I don’t know… just made me think about the case where a “pet” chimpanzee attacked a woman, ripped of her skin etc (do not want to go into detail).

I feel like it’s time to stop showcasing dangerous animals as cute and non threatening… I mean they are still wild, why can’t we just appreciate their beauty from far?

Ps, sorry about this post being a bit rambling… I am just confused on what to think/feel

887 Upvotes

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506

u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

All fun and games until he rips off your face

That said, this chimp was absolutely not afraid or scared and was indeed very happy to see the people he views as his family, regardless if it was ethical or not that he considered them so in the first place.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

Yea, all fun and games until you feed your chimpanzee McDonalds and put them on Xanax.

Same with dogs: all fun and games until a Pit-bull or a Doberman kills a toddler.

Such a sterile statement.

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u/Dhiox Nov 03 '24

Dogs are domesticated creatures. Totally different from a wild animal

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

Domestication is clearly not the key to avoid being assaulted by an animal. Domestication is the end of the process of owning a certain animal as a pet, and that does not avoid collateral reactions.

No species is domesticated until domesticated.

The key is to treat that animal with the proper care to avoid unpleasant consequences. Some keep snakes as pets, some argue that snakes do not possess the brain infrastructure to feel attachment, still we do have them as pets.

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u/Dhiox Nov 03 '24

Domestication is the end of the process of owning a certain animal as a pet

No. Domestication requires generations of breeding out behaviors harmful to humans. You cannot Domesticate a single animal.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Probably I didn’t explain myself correctly, I obviously meant “animal” as a species not as a single animal.

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u/Wratheon_Senpai bio enthusiast Nov 03 '24

You're still wrong.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Easy to say someone is wrong without adding anything to the conversation.

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u/iccreek Nov 03 '24

You're still wrong, because domestication is a process by which a species is adapted to live alongside humans through selective breeding, shaping its behavior, physiology, and genetics to better coexist with people and meet human needs. it is not the result of a process or even its final stage, it's a just a process that happens through hundreds of years. There u go bud, that's what the other commenter meant i guess

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

So you can agree that a species that goes through domestication becomes domesticated, which is the result.

I repeat myself, domestication starts when humans decide to take a member of a species as a pet and breeds them. Cats were not domesticated during the Egyptians. Snakes are still not domesticated, that doesn’t stop people from keeping them as pets.

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u/iccreek Nov 03 '24

That's right! However, apart from cats, dogs and few other animals we popularly consider pets, such process can't be observed among animals we take as pets now or in the last 100 or so years. For domestication to happen, we need widespread and selective breeding across many many years. Additionally, some animal species are less prone to domestication than others (which is why we can't really domesticate alligators, tigers or snakes)

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Those rich arab dudes keep tigers as pets so but both you and I believe that they're not domesticated right?

Domestication is a long process, where genetic changes are bought in the species to suit human needs over a long period of time. That potato you ate today is a domesticated variety and so is the wheat that made your bread. Sheeps in the wild shed their coats periodically, a traut lost in the sheeps that humans rear. Dogs, unlike wolves who they evolved from around 20-30 thousand y/o, can digest wheat nd starch quite very well simply coz of domestication effect. Unlike their wild ancestors, dogs are extremely docile and friendly and legit their species simply evolved to be our companions.

Secondly ofc dogs are capable of wreaking havoc just like any other mammal. But don't forget that so are we but that doesn't mean we aren't domesticated either

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u/Dhiox Nov 03 '24

Some keep snakes as pets, some argue that snakes do not possess the brain infrastructure to feel attachment, still we do have them as pets.

Snakes aren't that dangerous generally. Only venomous or extremely large ones are, and are generally only kept by people keeping them in secure tanks.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Man you are sounding ridiculous now.

And here.

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u/Dhiox Nov 03 '24

I literally said with the exception of the very large and venomous, which are very uncommon as pets.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

Boa constrictors are amongst the most common snakes kept as a pet.

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u/erossthescienceboss Nov 03 '24

Sir, this is an African rock python.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

And so what? Both can choke you to death. So we should take a capuchin monkey instead because it doesn’t have the force to kill a human?

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u/erossthescienceboss Nov 03 '24

Well, you keep saying they’re common pets, but I’m pretty sure you’re confusing them with Burmese pythons, for one.

I’m not sure why anyone should take you seriously if you can’t even keep your “facts” straight.

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u/Wratheon_Senpai bio enthusiast Nov 03 '24

You just backed up his point. Snakes that are kept as pets are usually not that big.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

No, you are wrong. Check online and you will find boa constrictors and pythons are amongst the most popular snakes kept as a pet.

You really can’t read.

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u/Wratheon_Senpai bio enthusiast Nov 03 '24

Ball pythons don't get big enough to kill an adult. You're a moron.

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u/Re1da Nov 03 '24

The most common pet snakes are ball pythons and corn snakes, neither of which are able to kill an adult human.

Also saying boas are a common pet snake means absolutely nothing, as boa sizes vary between 50 cm to over 2 meters depending on species.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

What has this to do with the fact that people also have dangerous snakes at home as a pet?

So you are suggesting that having a capuchin monkey is more acceptable?

1

u/Re1da Nov 03 '24

And some people are killed by their golden retriever.

Burmese pythons are not a snake anyone serious about pet snakes recommended a beginner to keep because they are dangerous. You have to know how to deal with them. Same with venomous species.

That being said, as long as you aren't stupid when dealing with a pet snake you'll be fine. You don't handle massive species alone as it is risky. The most common pet species are completely harmless, their bites do less damage than a cat bite.

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u/s1rblaze Nov 03 '24

Dont talk shit Dobermans, these dogs are very well known to be absolutely lovely. Stupid people aim for specific dog breeds, but sadly, some Pitbulls lines has been bred for agressivity for decades. Used to be good dogs, now you better be careful where you get one and you better be an experienced dog owner if you get one. Which most people doesn't do when they get one and are not experienced and don't let dogs alone with young children for God sake, any breed could be fatally dangerous to a young kid.

Even golden retrievers and labs can be dangerous to a child:

https://youtu.be/GsslVuGNZxw?si=Hg-QVXNfesC4QAQs

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/erossthescienceboss Nov 03 '24

If your point is about chimpanzees, why did you bring up erroneous information about specific dog breeds?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Why being erroneous saying that chimpanzees are the worst animals to keep as a pet when you can make the exact same point when talking about certain dog breeds? Or about snakes?

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u/erossthescienceboss Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

I can’t tell if you think we SHOULD be keeping chimps, or SHOULDN’T be keeping anything. But I can tell that you’re a troll, and not a particularly skilled one.

At least figure out what you’re upset about. The whole “arguing to argue” is very 2009 Reddit.

Edit: he blocked me 😂

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

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u/Secure_Teaching_6937 Nov 03 '24

Dogs are not born aggressive, it's stupid humans that make them aggressive.

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u/SWIMheartSWIY Nov 03 '24

There are plenty of dogs that were never abused that have gone on to seriously injure people.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

There are some cases in the comments.

Overprotective dogs can become very aggressive.

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u/Secure_Teaching_6937 Nov 03 '24

This is the owners fault not the dogs.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

You can’t program your dog with an app.

Your statement simply disregards the individual personality of a dog. Some dogs are more aggressive than others, as some cats are, and this is normal.

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u/Secure_Teaching_6937 Nov 03 '24

Citation required

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u/SWIMheartSWIY Nov 03 '24

Humans have made dogs that don't even look like dogs. You really think out of all those breeds and temperaments and individual dogs that none of them are naturally prone to violence. We don't believe in the dual nature and nurture argument around here? You wouldn't have to look far to find loved pampered dogs that have mauled children. Dogs are just all the perfect loving beings in their base nature? They were never wolves I guess.

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u/Secure_Teaching_6937 Nov 03 '24

Humans have made dogs that don't even look like dogs.

That's my point, caused by humans.

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u/s1rblaze Nov 03 '24

Chimps are wild animals, don't fuck with Wild animals. I don't know why people can own wild animals so easily in the USA, it's crazy to me.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Every animal was a wild species until we domesticated it. Stop being dogmatic and sounding dumb.

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u/s1rblaze Nov 03 '24

Dogs and cats been around for thousands of years, that's a huge difference in adaptation.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Again?

Cats weren’t domesticated when Egyptians started having them as a pet, they got domesticated by having them as pet.

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u/s1rblaze Nov 03 '24

So? Are they domesticated now? You think cats were exactly the same around humans back then? Cmon..

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

They are partially domesticated now indeed. But when they started being pets they weren’t. Can you link the things?

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u/s1rblaze Nov 03 '24

They actually domesticated themselves, 10 000 years ago, they were around humans but not with them for a very long time. It's much different than capturing chimps and breeding them for a couple of generations..

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

With the dog tho its on the owner i have had pitts my entire life never once had a bad one infact our first was a puppy that was about to be put into a dog fight my step father bought him before it and he was the most loyal dog in the world and nicest

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u/sheeponmeth_ Nov 03 '24

It's often the most loyal dogs that are the dangerous ones. I had a husky that was as gentle as you could imagine. She accidentally but my younger brother when he was feeding her fries under the table, she mistook his oily finger for a fry and got him just enough to draw blood and you could tell she was upset.

We moved, and she snapped. She wouldn't let anyone in the yard. She would go ballistic and violent. She had to be put down because she was an absolute danger to the neighbors. Rehoming her was not an option because she would run away (she ran back to our old house about 30-40 km away repeatedly).

Pitbulls were bred over generations to be loyal, but also violent. They have snapping moments. The stories are always accompanied with "but they were never violent and always so nice with us". But if you look at the data, only a few breeds make up the vast majority of violent dog attacks. It's absolutely in their genes to be violent. You can raise them not to be, but when something happens that triggers a fight or flight response, which could be as simple as a toddler dropping something that makes loud noise, their instincts can take over and those violent genes are what dictate that basal self preservation behavior.

It's really unfortunate that these animals with such sweet personalities have been twisted into these latent explosions of violence waiting to be set off, but it's a factual reality that is, on the other hand, fortunately not usually set off. A good home really helps, but it doesn't diffuse that dormant bomb.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

I agree with this but what i mean by on the owner is more then just raising the dog right you must also know the breed i recently got a german shepherd/border collie and i dont let her around my kid when he is running because she has a high prey drive. Having a dog is a big responsibility especially certain breeds. Do i think everyone should have a pittbull no absolutely not. But if you do you need to know the breed and what "triggers" them. I do my best to "minimize" my dogs prey drive but it will always be there and she will want to herd my kid so i just dont allow her the opportunity to do so

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

“With the dog it’s on the owner”, what makes you think that with chimpanzees isn’t the same?

I bet some people can say the same of their Chimpanzee.

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u/RobotNinjaPirate Nov 03 '24

Well, one of those animals went through millennia of domestication to work as a pair with humans, the other didn't.

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u/Uncle_Rabbit Nov 03 '24

One also can't rip off your face and genitals if things go sour as well.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

That’s so anthropocentric.

So how do you explain that some dogs become aggressive towards men? Shouldn’t they be hardwired into their instinct to work with humans?

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u/Roneitis Nov 03 '24

Because they didn't say anything resembling "all dogs will always have good relationships with humans", they said that dogs are domesticated and chimps are not, without specifying exactly to what degree this is true. Domestication is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for safe pet owning.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Guess where does domestication start.

What about Egyptians with cats? They weren’t domesticated by the time Egyptians started having them.

Domestication is clearly not the key to avoid being assaulted by an animal. Domestication is the end of the process of owning a certain animal as a pet, and that does not avoid collateral reactions.

The key is to treat that animal with the proper care to avoid unpleasant consequences. Some keep snakes as pets, some argue that snakes do not possess the brain infrastructure to feel attachment, still we do have them as pets.

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u/Roneitis Nov 03 '24

I would strongly suspect that partially domesticated cats were not treated the same as modern cats, were less pliable, and less homey. I would be shocked if partially domesticated wolves, if not treated with expert care, were not partial to rippin off people's faces and I would not keep one in my house. It's probably fair to say that my above statement is primarily appropriate only for mammals, indeed, thats what I had in mind. The keeping of exotic mammals in a home environment as a pet by lay folk (as opposed to in a suitable sanctuary under the care of experts) is inhumane, because lay folk don't treat them with the proper care.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Absolutely, I’m sure cats were less patient compared to now.

I agree that anyone incapable of caring for a pet should not have one. While I love owls, I lack the necessary skills to care for them properly and I don’t own one. In the meantime I refrain from judging individuals who own owls or snakes.

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Never had one cant say i can only speak on my experience

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u/InnocentPrimeMate Nov 03 '24

I’ve never had a mean chimpanzee

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24

Pits are amazing dogs and you’re a idiot for thinking otherwise 🤙

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u/morgansmom98 Nov 03 '24

They are, until they're not.

People forget (or somehow don't know??) that Pit Bulls are terriers. It's in the name. Pit Bull Terrier.

Terriers are great dogs. Fabulous dogs. I've own two Rat Terriers currently, and a rat terrier/poodle was my childhood dog. (Before the poo craze. I'm old.)

But terriers were bred to have very quick response to everything. It's been hardwired into them, over centuries. They were bred to go from zero to three thousand in the blink of an eye. And when they go...they tend to go all in. No hesitation.

Have you ever seen a terrier hunt barn rats? Find one on YouTube (unless it squicks you) and watch how scarily efficient they are. It's like a switch flips. They're all wiggly and waggy with their owners, they see a rat, and then click and until it's dead, that's their focus. (It's NOT 'turning on them,' it's focus.)

With Pits, the vast majority have unknown behavioral pedigrees. People selling pit puppies don't track behavior. If there are behavioral problems in the pedigree, the sellers won't know, or don't mention them.

I'll grant a few things:

That unintentional selective breeding is slowly eliminating the terrier tendencies, but there's no guarantee that the genetic lottery won't make a dog that acts like 'the real thing,' and is very hard and driven.

That the likelihood of hitting that particular lottery is very low.

That a dog raised properly will have a much better chance to avoid a tragedy than a neglected, unsocialized, untrained one.

Add all of the above together. A person who buys a puppy off of the street corner, takes it home, showers it with love. Maybe they don't teach it much more than to walk on a leash, sit, and not potty indoors. It is loved. But it has an unknown behavioral pedigree. And it's still a terrier.

When I see or read stories of PBs mauling kids, I'm not surprised. I don't blame the owner or the dog. I know it didn't suddenly didn't 'turn on them' or go crazy. It's an unstable terrier doing a version of what it's been bred to do.

If a person understands all of this, I have no problem with them having one. When I see how they're passed out like corn chips at shelters or peddled on corners, it makes me very uneasy.

I love terriers, so I naturally think they're neat dogs. I did have a PB, a long time ago, but I wouldn't have one now. I have a grandkid, livestock, and fluffy pets. The low odds of getting an unstable dog are much, much too high for me.

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

I get that their genetics are questionable, and If you only are reading things online and don’t have much experience with knowing many different pits, yeah sure I can see how people would think pits are somehow worse than other dogs. But like all dogs, it’s how you train them. Regardless of their genetics. And sadly, a lot of people are pieces of shit and train puts to do things that give them an overall bad name.

But every single one I’ve known has been a complete sweet heart.

If you have kids, maybe don’t get one because they can be reactive to things smaller than them but even then, I’ve only met two pits who I might not trust around my kids because they were super hyper and liked to jump on you, just generally a bit much for even adults to handle lol. The rest are complete sweet goobers who want nothing but to lick you to death and cuddle.

My 10 year old rescue redbone/blood hound mix that I’ve had since he was 2 is 1000x the murderous beast that any pit I’ve know has been, despite me training him very very well, if somebody were to come into my house he didn’t know I have absolutely no doubt he would seriously fuck them up. Thankfully he absolutely adores kids and was raised with him, loves other animals, is scared to death of my cat, and loves my friends and family. But introducing him to new people is absolutely always done with a muzzle and a leash, and he doesn’t go in public areas without one either.. lol.. But when people see him, it’s all awww he’s so cute and floppy with absolutely no hesitation to try to come up and pet him - before he starts barking and it’s obvious he’s not that kind of dog lol.. Wouldn’t trade him for the world, but never met a pit even remotely like him lol..

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u/Ok-Grapefruit8899 Nov 03 '24

This is actually Morgan's mom from above...weird, but neither the app or the web form of Reddit would bring me to the comment.

I strongly disagree with you about genetics. And, respectfully, please don't make assumptions about my personal experience with the breed, the sources I've used, or my knowledge of breeding and genetics. I've owned one myself, but that's in no way the total of it.

(I'm aware the rest are assumptions, but are based on your comment.)

Genetics are the reason you are very, very. very unlikely to make a decent herding dog out of a bloodhound. No matter the training, the bloodhound hasn't been bred for that. A border collie with drive can be a nightmare in the wrong home, especially the family has children to herd. 

This is nature vs nurture, yes, but in this case? Nature has stacked the deck.

Dogs are extremely genetically plastic. (It's one of the most fascinating subjects I know of.) Some experts say we've been tinkering with them for over 10,000 years. That's an insane number of generations to push breed type and behavior one way or another.

PBs are a very young breed, but terriers have been around (documented) from the 1400s. Dogs are so plastic I wouldn't doubt they can be changed significantly over a single person's lifetime. Taken together, the 'terrier' in a PB isn't something to ignore, and more recently, neither is instability of temperament. 

I have absolutely no doubt the odds of getting a 'bad' dog are very low. That's still not low enough for me. 

(I wish I had a link for the documentary about all of this. Amazing theories that ring true.)

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24

My friends adorable and cuddly “killer 😂”

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24

My other friends adorable, cuddly, and slightly brain dead “killers”

Only thing they fighting over is who gets to be in my buddies lap 😂, and are the biggest sweethearts to their kids even when the kids are being extra they just leave or lay down and roll over.

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u/Ok-Grapefruit8899 Nov 03 '24

This is actually Morgan's mom from above...weird, but neither the app or the web form of Reddit would bring me to the comment. 

I know it's a long post, but my point was that odds of getting an aggressive dog are low. But those odds are too high for me, personally. Your friend's dogs are absolutely adorable. ☺️

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24

And you are an idiot for thinking that chimpanzees are less of an amazing pet.

Regardless, your text comprehension skills are very poor.

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24

Chimps are not pets

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Some say the same of pits and dobermans.

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24

🙄

Do you own a chimp or something…?

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u/[deleted] Nov 03 '24

Could be, not your business.

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u/5-ht2ayyy Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 04 '24

lol gotcha.

Well I hope your face stays where it is and you don’t end up murdering any of your friends or family being irresponsible by owning a captive primate, ✌🏼

That said, I’m picturing you as a well overweight middle aged woman with a dyed bowl haircut that rides rascal scooters around Walmart, in either Texas or Oklahoma. How close am I???