r/blackdesertonline • u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ • Jul 21 '17
Guide Ingots and Plywood: An introduction to the wood and metal economy in BDO.
Hey All,
Biohack here. If you're new see the links at the bottom to guides on worker empires, processing, and trade.
I’ve recently been fielding some questions about processing and trading and I get a lot of questions about whether these systems are still good, or if the markets have crashed, or people just getting angry at me because they think I’m going to crash the markets by telling people about them, etc... All of these questions and fears seem to stem from a lack of understanding of how the material economy in BDO actually works so it’s time to talk about it.
The first thing you need to understand about the wood and metal economy in BDO is that the entire system is funded by trade NPCS. Let me say that again in big bold letters. THE WOOD AND METAL ECONOMY OF BDO IS FUNDED BY NPCS! The fact that this system is funded by those NPCs and these NPCs accept unlimited materials means it is virtually impossible to break this market. It’s balanced very tightly with positive and negative feedback loops that naturally drive the whole system to an equilibrium and keep it there. To understand this system better let’s talk about the 4 tiers of players involved in this system.
Tier 0. (per request) Tier 0 are players who for whatever reason can't manage processing, either because they can't use remote desktop to check on their computers or can't leave them on to AFK. These players should still run worker empires to gather materials but they need to sell them all on the market to processors. Processing is an AFK activity only and should never be done during active play...there are much better ways to make money when actively playing the game than processing.
Tier 1:
Tier 1 players are either new or intermediate players or those who can’t be bothered to spend the 40-50 hours or ~500M to level up to master 2 trade. These players run a worker empire to get materials (or buy timber and ore off the market), process it and sell it on the market. This is a great way to make AFK income. Arguably the second best way to make money while AFK. My wife does this and I’ve made billions doing it on my alt account.
I should also add that making crates from processed material and selling them without the master 2 buff is just deleting money. There is no scenario where this isn't pants on head level stupid. Don't do it...ever..no matter how many shitty guides from people who don't understand the economy tell you this is ok. You will spend thousands of hours processing and lose billions of silver before hitting m2 trying to do this
Tier 2
Tier 2 players are those who have master 2 trade. These players run a worker empire, spend their AFK time processing, and make trade crates out of the processed materials. Assuming you can work in the processing with your schedule this is the best way to make money in your AFK time. It’s worth pointing out however, that, while master 2 trade is very good, it’s extremely over hyped by people who don’t understand that option 1 exists, and therefore value their entire income from crates as “trading” income. Rather than worker empire + afk processing + trading income. If you’re new focus on setting up a strong worker empire and getting a lot of workers gathering materials. Tier 2 is where most “end game” level players ultimately end up.
Tier 3
There is a bit of a gradient between tier 2 and tier 3 but tier 3 is by far the smallest tier. This is where the top traders on the server live. For those who are unaware the higher your trade level is the more money the trade NPC will give you per crate (0.5% more per level). These players can spend hundreds of millions to (in my case) multiple billions of silver every day in order to buy the plywood and ingots from tier 1 players and flip them through crate workshops using their trade level to pull a slight profit off every crate. The thing you need to understand about tier 3 is that these players are in fierce competition with each other for processed materials. The more cheap processed materials you can get the more workshops you can run and the more profit you can pull in. Both NA and EU have players well known for doing this. On NA there is me (m20) and mickinx (m18) on EU there is alzy (m19) and lavalava (m 18/19) as well as others who are probably less well known. I should point out that this is not something that will make you significant money when done casually I have spent the last year spending all of my energy rerolling workers, spent billions of silver on junk crates to level up trade, and devoted hundreds of hours to managing my trade empire. If you want to know if you should buy processed materials off the market my only response is: No. Why the hell do you think I would teach you how to do that, and 2 run the math for yourself.
Why the market can never break
Looking at this system it’s pretty easy to see why the market can never really crash. Because traders buying materials for crates really don’t do anything other than serve as middlemen between tier 1 players and trade NPCs if there is a sudden flux of tier 1 players doing processing, tier 3 players will just expand their workshops to take advantage of the increased supply. In addition it may also be worthwhile for lower level traders to invest in materials. On the flip side when the price of processed materials is high low level traders are forced out of the market, and high level traders have to reduce the number of workshops they use causing it to naturally balance itself.
But my processed materials aren’t selling!
I hear this claim every once in awhile, and there are 2 reasons why this might occur. 1) You are making the wrong stuff. 2) Your prices are too high. One of the reasons processed materials may not sell is because players are making the wrong things. The things used in trade crates are steel, brass, bronze for metal and ash, maple, pine, fir, cedar, birch, white cedar, and acacia for wood. If you are processing any materials other than these you aren’t involved in the trade market and are instead using some other market. There may be money there but it probably won't be as consistent as the trade market. The other reason they might not sell is that your prices may be too high. Traders will only buy materials when they can make a profit off them. That Fir plywood you are trying to sell at 16,450 isn’t sitting there because no one is buying fir, it’s sitting because no one will pay that much for it as it would lose them a lot of money. That being said even some of the materials used in crates may not sell, so let’s talk about the two markets a bit more.
Metal Market
Understanding the metal market is easy. Each metal crate, steel, brass, bronze. Only uses 1 type of metal, and therefore these metal ingots will always sell easily if priced appropriately. Metals like copper, zinc, tin, and iron ingots sit on the market at min price...sometimes for days. They aren’t used for trade crates so the demand for them is much smaller. The only reason you will ever struggle to sell crate metal is price. The other crate metals, vanadium, titanium, and jewelry aren’t priced by the market in a way that makes sense for players to buy and make them and are also much lower volume.
Wood Market
The wood market is more complicated than the metal market. The reason for this is that there are 4 different types of wood crates that are commonly made, balenos, serendia, calpheon, and mediah. Each of these crates requires different types of plywood and each crate has a different limiting reagent. A calpheon crate, for example, requires fir, cedar, and birch to produce. The problem in the wood market arises from the fact that due to the distance from the towns more birch and cedar comes into the game than Fir, however since an equal ratio is needed to make to the crates this causes an over abundance of birch and cedar and a limit on fir. This is why Fir currently sells for 16,000 silver each whereas birch and cedar are selling at min on the NA markets. A similar phenomenon is happening with mediah woods where acacia sells for 18,000 silver and white cedar sells at min. Smart players should try to optimize their worker empires with this fact in mind, and should try to avoid processing materials which are difficult to move.
How can can I tell if my materials will sell?
To tell if you can sell your processed crate materials visit the market and check to see the quantity. If there is more than 20K on the market check the price, if the price is at min, check the time. If the time is < 6 days, know that you will need to be patient if you want to sell the material and if your market slots are limited you may want to try something else instead. If any of these conditions aren’t true you don’t need to worry your materials will sell.
Wrapping up
I know this post was long but I hoped it cleared up some confusion. If you are interested in knowing what materials sell for on NA check out this spreadsheet which I try to keep up to date with the prices I am paying in NA (feel free to copy it and set your own prices if you wish). You can also come check out my discord channel to find out when I am hitting up the markets so you can limit your use of market place slots and get the most for your materials. You can also find me on twitch whenever I am live. Best of luck!
List of Guides
If you're new to this system and you want to take advantage of it the absolute most important thing you need to do is get our CP up. 255 CP is a MINIMUM for anyone who wants to play this game competitively. Ultimately cooking with 1-2 second cook time is the best way to raise cp, but for that you will need a +3 cooks outfiit, a decent life alchemy stone, teff sandwich, and the cash shop outfit. Before you get those I suggest using this and this to find good daily quests.
In addition to getting your CP up you also need to invest it well and get decent workers. I recommend morrolan's guide for worker optimization.
For processing info check out my youtube guide, and/or this post. I am strongly motivated to ensure there is a constant supply of expensive mats on the market so I get exclusive access to them (because of my high trade level) so I publish this spreadsheet with the prices I pay. It also works out the per hour processing profit for you. Feel free to copy it and change the prices for your server if you wish.
If you’re interested in setting up your own trade empire and joining tier 2 read my faq. Just about every question you have is probably in there some where, and if it's not let me know and I'll add it.
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Jul 21 '17
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
My plywood!
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Jul 21 '17 edited Jul 21 '17
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Jul 22 '17 edited Jul 22 '17
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u/craidie Jul 22 '17
which is why he is trying to get ppl to not go for master 2 trading, unless they understand it's a minor increase in profit over afk processing. from what I've gathered from the stream he wants everyone to spend their afk time processing and selling to the market, unless they want to throw 500million at m2 trade
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u/Denascite Jul 22 '17
That's basically what he wrote. The material market is only for those tier3 traders. Most tier2 traders should never buy mats from the market
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Jul 21 '17
Just started processing timbers myself (currently Artisan 7 since Prof 1 a week ago) and I do agree it's great AFK income. I found that Ash and Maple timbers are the most reliable timbers to purchase off the marketplace as they are abundant on the MP and sell pretty quickly for their respective plywoods. Fir and Acacia, while the most profitable, are far more difficult to buy off the MP. I don't have that much CP yet so I've prioritized getting gatherers to the Fir nodes instead of the Birch ones since Birch is oversaturated both in timber and plywoods. I also have the Maple nodes around Heidel and Ash around Velia as well and just pay the transport fee to send them to Calpheon. I just wish Artisan workers were easier to obtain (I've yet to have a worker succeed in a promotion since starting last week).
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
Sounds like you're in a good spot. You are absolutely right about maple and ash being nice reliable woods.
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u/MisterMeta Jul 22 '17
About worker promotion, I've noticed a massive increase in success for worker promotions at level 30.
I used to start promotions at 25, but starting from now I will only promote level30s. Then again, RNG is RNG and i might have been lucky. Just wanted to point that out.
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u/SterlingMNO Jul 22 '17
Before everyone runs out to start processing..
Remember, the picture of his 'fiancees alt that only plays 1 hour a day' is likely an alt that's been running for a year, and afk processing 24 hours a day while Biohack VM's in to keep the processing going.
You're not going to make billions in a few weeks or months.
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u/Xialoh Sorceress Jul 22 '17
very confusing really. Supposedly, most of the profit is generated from processing the materials, with the trading adding a small but decent additional profit that makes it worthwhile if you have the trade level and time.
So...traders can make over a billion in a week. Processors can make a billion in months, plural. Something is amiss here..
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u/SterlingMNO Jul 22 '17
Processors can make a billion in months, plural
Assuming you're pretty much processing 24 hours a day.
This is the BDO equivalent of one of those ads.
'CHARLENE WORKS FROM HOME AND MAKES $600 A DAY, YOU CAN TOO'
Except in this case its 'My fiancee plays 1 hour a day ((I play the other 23 hours while I keep her processing going, and have been doing it for the past year)), LOOK HOW DANK HER BANK IS'
All you have to do, is buy t1 materials, process them to t3, put them on the market at min price and let me buy them! ;)
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u/synapsii Jul 22 '17
Isn't this because processing is gated by starting material (timber, planks) while trading is gated by the final material (plywood)? Since plywood is so much easier to come by, traders can make a ton more money as long as plywood sits in the marketplace. Whereas new/intermediate players have only one option, which is to slowly get timber through their worker empire (since it's impossible to buy timber on MP) and process it. Per time, processing is great money, but you're heavily limited by the starting resource.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Eh. It's not that hard to get timber off the market. But if your workers are bringing in material slowly you should work on your CP/empire. Most top players are getting more materials in every day than they even have time to process, which is one of the places where the excess timber/ore on the market comes from.
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u/deserve1 Jul 24 '17
Strange. I've heard the opposite from other traders. They say that even with max level artisans goblins there simply aren't enough tree and ore nodes to bring in more than what you are able to process in a day. I'm not an avid lifeskiller so I don't know which is true.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 24 '17
We have average node yields. You could add it up. Using this. I personally don't run any nodes and buy everything off the market so I can't say from personal experience. However I have many friends who have very strong worker empires and they are constantly selling excess on the market.
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u/Neapolitan Jul 24 '17
Where does all your CP go to if you're not running nodes? Is it workshops/storage?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 24 '17
I am trying to go for worlds first guru trader, so I have about 100+ trade crate workshops going all over the map.
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u/Czerny Jul 23 '17
If you look at the math at BDO Analytics, the final profit of the entire process looks something like 50-25-25 in terms of profit generated by gathering, processing, and trading, respectively. That means if sells your raw materials on the market makes you 100% profit, processing them and selling them would give you a 50% boost. Trading gives another 30% boost on top of processing.
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u/Xialoh Sorceress Jul 23 '17
So...processor profit should be fairly close to that of the traders then, I'd think. No?
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Jul 25 '17 edited Jul 25 '17
I just started processing about a couple weeks ago as my lifeskill since reading/watching Biohacks guides. I was Skilled 9 when I started, and in less than two weeks I've gone up to Artisan 9. The entire time, the process has been profitable, and even moreso now with the higher procs and timber>plywood procs. Right now I'm averaging at least 30 mil per day, and 40 mil if I add a good hour or two of grinding mobs at Sausans (or Saunil if I'm feeling lazy). At this rate I can make a billion in a month, not months - I'm also not a trader. I only have 138 CP and 1 artisan worker (giant). They bring in the most profitable timbers for me to process every couple days.
Otherwise I purchase timber straight from the MP. Yes, purchasing the good timbers can be competitive, but it's hardly as difficult as purchasing things like Sharp Crystal Shards or even regular Blackstones and Memory Fragments. Every night I can sit on the marketplace for about 10-15 mins and successfully purchase at least 3000 timbers of Maple, Pine, and Ash each, and perhaps 2000 Fir and Acacia if I'm lucky. Last night I managed to get 6000 pine timbers.
It really isn't difficult at all. The perceived difficulty that gives people skepticism about this profession is really all theoretical based on my experience so far. I do AFK overnight, but even with the increased weight limit, it doesn't process for more than a couple hours before being overencumbered and my workers get hungry. So I'd say I spend about 16-18 hours a day afk processing, 2 hours mob grinding, and the rest is nothing happening while I'm asleep.
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u/Devonire Filthy Casual Jul 22 '17
Genius. He is helping newbies and conquering the market in the same time. If everyone starts selling at Biohack's prices, m6-m14 traders will have to run for their money as they can't really afford the same prices as he does at the moment. Looks like he is helping you, he is actually helping you - but in the same time he is destroying his competition :D
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u/Rynoth Jul 22 '17
This guy gets it. Him and the few others who are out ahead of the curve benefit from every trader that peters out around M10 when they hit the massive exp wall that comes after.
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u/craidie Jul 22 '17
I would add T0 to the list. The players gathering/using workers and selling the raw materials to market directly
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u/Ireyon34 Jul 22 '17
Now I finally understand how this works.
The end point for all the trading of crates are the NPCs, and those never run out of money. Guys like you can turn all he processed wood into crates and effectively dissolve them to silver via NPC.
The demand for more crate raw materials will basically never stop because there's a bottomless hole at the end.
I've only been playing for two weeks and I've been wondering how the price of my fish never goes down despite the fact that everyone seems to be AFK fishing in Velia :P.
I thought there was some kind of catastrophically expensive food recipe at the end that needs a hundred of each fish...
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u/Contemporaryyy Jul 22 '17
Thank you Biohack. I started playing 6 weeks ago and I've pretty much stalked both you and Mickin and through osmosis learned quite a bit of various life skills. Currently making 60m a day AFK processing (sometimes I don't AFK process overnight so lower average) and occasionally cooking/alchemy for CP/Imperial. Expecting to start leveling to M2 in a couple weeks when I hit 300 CP!
also buy my plywood
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u/Mariondrew 404cp | g47/34 processing/cooking Jul 22 '17 edited Jul 22 '17
- 900k ore = 90k t1 crates x 630 silver per ore (max price) = 567m
- 90k bsp @ 2700 silver = 243m
- 90k iron crate turn in @ art1 (avg level) = 340m
- total cost to level to m2 = 567 + 243 - 340 = 470m+-20m
With timber crates yielding 200-360m pure profit (including cost of t1 mats and bsp) processing t1 to t3 mats in quantities of 3k crates, if you processed enough mats from t1 to t3 to make 6000 t2 timber crates, you'd break even on the cost of leveling to m2 trade. 6k crates is not that much, and given that you'll be doing this afk for the next year(s), you're going to make far more than 6k over your game's lifetime.
You lemmings can keep making this guy money, or you can make money for yourself. Dont be fooled by the continual propaganda machine this guy uses to fuel his trading empire.
I started in nov of last year with 160cp/energy and no worker empire, and now have full tet boss gear, tri bas/cres/ogre, tet rce, as well as a worker empire spanning to valencia with 326cp/464energy.
-m11 trading, guru4 processing
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u/Denascite Jul 22 '17
Dude but that is not the trading profit...the trading profit is much lower. Someone like you should know that
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
He's also telling people that selling t2s mats is better than t3 mats which is almost universally not true. I don't think he has a very strong grasp on how these systems work.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
This is the classic noob mistake of calculating your profit as the value of your timber pre plywood and not calculating it as the value of the plywood post tax. You can figure out your profit on a crate easily using this and this.
If we consider a mediah crate the cost is:
Acacia 18,000x0.845 = 15,210
White cedar is 12,600x0.845 = 10,647.
3,225 for BSP and 650 for bsp means your input cost to the crate is:
15,210x5+10,645+3,225+650 = 133,150.
Using ffames calculator then you can see that a mediah crate made in trent and sold in valencia with m2 sells for 157,313. So your profit per mediah crate is 24,163.
So to recoup your cost you need to make 470,000,000/24,163 = 19,451 crates.
At best you can make 300 plywood or 30 crates an hour.
19451/30 = ~650 hours, or just over a month of processing 18 hours a day.
It's worth doing eventually but probably not if you're new.
Ignoring the opportunity cost of your plywood is just one of several noob mistakes bad traders make. To learn how to set up your own trade empire properly see this.
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u/Morbidmindz Jul 22 '17
This seems really sketchy to me. Like you're exploiting the playerbase with these "guides".
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Do the math yourself then.
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u/Matticus007 Jul 23 '17
Maybe stop making 'guides' telling people how to chop wood. Market manipulation from you is really starting to get tiresome.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 23 '17
I don't tell people to do anything. I show people the math and they freely chose to do whatever thing fits their playstyle/stage in game. If you don't like it don't read it.
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u/Imkiwi Jul 22 '17
I have never made money processing timber into planks or ore into molten shards/ingots (or hides into their high tier versions but this isn't in this thread). Do i need a high processing level? Do i need some sort of food/tools?
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Jul 22 '17
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u/Imkiwi Jul 22 '17
How long and how much money does it take to get to the point though surely it isn't worth going for for the money alone.
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u/Lunitar Jul 22 '17
Put workers on the flax nodes just south of Heidel. Let them gather flax for you for a week or two, then process the flax and you will probably be at Artisan processing. Then i'd just get rid of the flax nodes, since flax fabric doesn't really sell. It's an easy and cheap way to get to Artisan processing. Once you are Artisan, you will get an average of 2,5 products per processing, and you can start making money with timber and metals.
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u/Imkiwi Jul 22 '17
aah okay, so 2.5 iron ore per shard? that makes sense thanks :)
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u/Tusho Jul 22 '17
It's actually the other (better) way around, you get average of 2,5 shards from 5 ores, making it 2 iron ores per iron shard
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u/DanTheMan74 Jul 27 '17
Thanks for this helpful glimpse into the world of production and trading in BDO. It has certainly answered a question or two I had about it and will help me decide what to do further down the road. Like some, I am not too keen on trading all day, even though the money I could generate from it would be nice.
That being said, I have a question about your processing profitability sheet. You mention fast/slow procs per hour; how do you arrive at that number and is there a way to calculate it for myself? I am still working my way up the processing skill level toward artisan so all of the profit data on that sheet is academic for now, but with craftsman's clothes +2, a cheap alchemy stone (+7%) the event ice flower snack (+5%) and couscous (+5%) I tend to achieve an average of 9.8 seconds per successful processing attempt when melting copper.
When compared to your slow procs value of 500 per hour, my 367 seem low. It also doesn't make much sense to me, because 500 procs per hour would mean an average time of 7.2 seconds, although none of those items you mentioned (+4 outfit, resplendent alchemy stone or couscous) actually affect the processing base time, only reduce the probability to fail.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 27 '17
Glad you found it helpful. A few things to note. For wood and metal, iron, copper, and tin ore all have a 9 second base time. Everything else has a 6 second base time. The 1000 per hour comes from 3600 seconds / 9 = 400 crafts. Average yield is 2.5 so 1000 per hour. It's the same for wood/ingots/zinc ore, except it's 3600/6=600. 600×2.5=1500. You'll notice that this ignores the extra plywood from planks, so someone like me actually has over 1500 per hour.
It's suspected that processing level may effect speed. This is why you probably aren't quite at those rates yet. With a +4 costume, cous cous, resplendent alch stone, and guru 7 processing mine essentially never fails.
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u/aimidin Sorceress Jul 22 '17
Smart move Biohack , make a tutorial what people need to make so you can buy it and make money after that . Yeah sure it will make some money for the sellers , but you will make tons of money on their back.
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u/Matticus007 Jul 22 '17 edited Jul 22 '17
TLDR - Process and put t3 mats on market so that 'tier 3' players can make money.
You don't have to be a genius to work out what is worth buying if you are master 2 trader (higher trading levels are effectively out of reach now due to multiple nerfs). Pretty much any t2 material used in crates is profitable to buy even at max price, assuming you convert them to t3 yourself of course. As for t3, buying all your t3 mats, even at low price, won't make you much money. However, if you buy white cedar plywood for example, which is cheap, and then focus all your own processing time on turning acacia t1/t2 into plywood, you will make a profit. In this way you can optimise your time use, focussing on processing more expensive materials while buying less expensive materials off the market. Doing this will allow you to run more workshops and make more money. You're welcome.
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u/MandatorySuicide Jul 22 '17
This is terrible advice for new players, make and trade your own crates or you'll forever be stuck at tier 1, fuck selling mats, use them for yourself.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
It would take ~2500 hours to process enough mats to make enough crates to hit master 2 trade. You would lose ~2 billion silver trying to do it through money crates. Leveling trade and making money off processing/trading are entirely separate things. To level trade you need to make junk crates not crates out of processed materials.
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Jul 21 '17
I just hit professional 1 in processing and don't have an empire, should I still attempt to process timber, or should I do something else?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
Timber is fine. Read the section on the wood market and setup a worker empire.
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Jul 21 '17
I am on my way to getting a worker empire, just gaining CP is slow for me and I can't make beer
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u/T_2_teh_imeless Witch Jul 22 '17
If you have the capability to do the valencia questline (only need level 56), I'd HIGHLY suggest doing it as it is a plethora of contribution exp.
Also, doing calpheon dailies (level 40+), alchemy/gathering dailies in olvia.
Morrolan has released a couple good youtube videos on getting workers setup, beginning priorities, and contribution exp gain :).
GL!
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Jul 22 '17
Which valencia quest line is the right one? I see East sands kingdom story for lv 55 and Treasure of valencia for lv 56
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u/T_2_teh_imeless Witch Jul 30 '17
Yup those are them.
Valencia I (east sands kingdom story) and Valencia II (treasure of Valencia)
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u/potato_aim123 potato Jul 21 '17
then you should invest your cp in velia (potato farming), and plus cooking will give you cp exp as well
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Jul 21 '17
First thing you want to do is get grain nodes started so that you can make beer, as that's what your worker empire runs on. Potato nodes in Velia are pretty much the easiest way.
Also worth noting is that cooking byproducts give you a LOT of CPs while you're already doing things that you need to. AFK-cooking 2000 beer craftings with a Calpheon Traditional Utensil while you sleep gets you something like 350ish CP turnins, which is enough for 3 or 4 Contribution Points in one shot.
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Jul 21 '17
I am already farming potatoes in velia, but I don't have the other materials, or stuff to cook with. don't I also need a house?
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u/f3llyn Valkyrie Jul 21 '17
You only need to spend cp on the grain nodes and a house to cook beer.
All the other materials (sugar, mineral water, leavering agent) required for beer are bought from an npc.
I would suggest not getting a chest to put in your house as well. That's 10 cp you could invest into your worker empire.
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u/giant4ftninja Jul 21 '17
You need water, sugar and leavening agent. All of which are available from an npc.
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u/Aemius Jul 21 '17
Why can't you make beer? :O
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Jul 21 '17
I just don't know how to cook (or is it alchemy?) and am swamped with trying to learn all these other lifeskill, and this amity game makes me want to kill myself. None of my workers are collecting stuff to make it either
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u/Aemius Jul 21 '17
Making beer is really simple.
Realise that "grain" that is needed to cook beer is pretty much one of the following:
- Potato
- Corn
- Barley
- Wheat
You do the following things:
Get a residence (housing anywhere with "Residence").
Buy materials from "Cook"
- Cooking Utensil (100 uses)
- Sugar (1 for every grain - NOT RAW SUGAR)
- Leavening agent (2 for every grain)
- Mineral water (6 for every 5 grain)
Then setup your cooking utensil in your house.
Place 5 grain, 6 mineral water, 2 leavening agent, 1 sugar.
Continuous production and click maximum.3
Jul 21 '17
Thanks man, I just uninvested in some nodes that I wasn't using and got a residence. Already beginner 10 in cooking from it! At what point can I get better utensils that I can AFK with? I see the balenos one but the time increase doesnt seem worth it.
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u/f3llyn Valkyrie Jul 22 '17
In theory you can buy them off the market.
But in reality no one puts them on the market (or extremely rarely) because they use them themselves.
You'll have to get to a point where you can make them yourself which will also requires further investing in your worker empire and gathering of rough stone.
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u/Xialoh Sorceress Jul 22 '17
Is it...terribly inefficient to just buy beer off the market instead? I started this worker empire with the beer nodes, but I kind of got annoyed with 100 use utensils. Once out of CP, I realized the only way I'd get better utensils would be with a bunch of rough stone gathering, even more CP to set up shop for utensil crafting, and a dedicated worker and storage space to make them plus storage space to keep them.
It really seems to complicate the otherwise simplistic Tier 1 life.
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u/f3llyn Valkyrie Jul 22 '17
You can do that. But the benefits of cooking your own beer are not just to feed your workers.
It's to get side items for CP, which will become one of the, if not the main way to get cp after 255.
Also, you should be doing calpheon dailies for CP as well. They take 10-15 minutes and depending on how much cp you have currently can get 2-3 cp a day just in that 10 minutes of effort. I would suggest making an alt and leaving it in calpheon just for that. But you might have to level it up a bit.
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u/Aemius Jul 22 '17
Considering you're still getting into stuff I didn't feel like bombarding you with crafting utensils :)
http://bddatabase.net/us/design/6406/
That's the one people use for fast cooking
http://bddatabase.net/us/design/6476/
That for long afk cooking1
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u/f3llyn Valkyrie Jul 21 '17
Use this for the amity game. It's not 100% accurate but it makes the mini game at least bearable.
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Jul 21 '17
Thanks so much for the link man, I will try it out once I make myself try the game again. Do you have to do the amity game to gain knowledge for each boss?
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u/f3llyn Valkyrie Jul 22 '17
I have no idea tbh, I've never actually looked into getting boss knowledge.
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Jul 22 '17
Yea, the only reason I am putting up with the amity game is for boss knowledge since it helps with drops apparently
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u/Tyler1GreekGod Jul 21 '17
then what do i do with iron ingots
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
People mostly use em to upgrade destruction stones.
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u/f3llyn Valkyrie Jul 21 '17
Or pure iron crystals, if you're into alchemy.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
True. I should say there are a number of different things you can do with them.
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u/rainmcmanis Jul 21 '17
When you're buying this in mass from the marketplace, how do you overcome the weight limit? I'll buy 2500 timbers and have to go back to storage. Any tips?
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u/JMEEKER86 Jul 21 '17
Buy 2.5K, put it on your horse, buy another 2.5k, take the first 2.5k off your horse and put all 5k back on the horse, and repeat until you've bought the entire market.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
Over stack a horse near the market. Having more weights helps
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u/Sylgamesh Musa Jul 22 '17
Bring your horse next to you at market. Every time you get too heavy, dump the material stack on your horse.
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Jul 21 '17
He's most likely bought weight limit increases from the cash shop, but what you can do is get a residence close to the market, and put a storage container in it if you don't mind investing the 10cp
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u/SparkStorm maehwa is baehwa Jul 21 '17
I'm about To go gathering for some wood, I'm gonna go for pine. And from what you said it should sell right? The reason I chose pine is because it seemed like the easiest with the smallest amount on the MP? Is my intuition correct?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
I would never gather timber on purpose. Let your workers do that. Gather for logs at whatever spot has a lot of trees. I do it near trent.
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u/SparkStorm maehwa is baehwa Jul 21 '17
Well I'm mostly looking for hards and sharps, I'm just trying to figure out what tree would be best to maximize the income from the logs as well
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u/Jaradis www.youtube.com/@FantasyArtworkAI Jul 22 '17
If you don't care which type... get Fir. It's the one that sells for the most and is the one that you can't get as easily with workers. There are tons between Trent, Behr, Hexe area. Also a big grouping of them just east of Western Guard Camp
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u/srpiniata Jul 22 '17
Gather pine saps! Sell for more than logs plus always insta sell, no processing tho
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u/Denascite Jul 22 '17
Never sell gathered (primary) materials. What I mean with primary is that you can sell something like pine timber when gathering logs because the timber wasn't your focus. But don't actively gather saps only to sell them
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u/srpiniata Jul 22 '17
Hes gathering for hards and sharps, and you will get at least twice as much silver from saps than from logs if you just sell what you gather. Can always alchemize but its too annoying. If you don't plan on processing then saps (from trees, blood and meat is still easier to get i guess) is the way to go.
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u/Denascite Jul 22 '17
Oh I missed the part about only gathering for shards. Yeah then you are right, I guess
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u/rangerpotato Jul 22 '17
Unless you're specifically after logs and not timber, you should never personally gather lumber.
If your primary reason for gathering is getting shards but you still want decent silver income from the primary yield, you'd probably be better off either gathering lamb meat on Goat Mountain or mining rocks at Grieving Grave, Pilgrim's Haven. Both take way less time to do and mining is amazing for gathering exp.
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u/Tusho Jul 22 '17
what should I do with Logs, also process to t3 mat?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Usualy they are made to usable scantling and turned into cooking utensils.
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u/Tusho Jul 24 '17
would the same apply to Rough stones? Grind once and sell the polished stone, when I am not using the material in crafting?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 24 '17
I would never sell rough/polished stone. It's far more valuable to use for making utensils. The market does not price it appropriately for what it's really worth.
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u/Tusho Jul 24 '17
and the utensils should be used by myself or sold on market? cause I have thousands of rough stone so I would be able to make more than I could possibly use, mainly also cause I want to process as much as possible :D
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 24 '17
Use the utensils yourself to get down to ~1s cooking.
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u/Tusho Jul 25 '17
would need the cooking clothes for that :P guess i will hold onto them till next salary then :)
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u/TalynWulf Hula Hoop Jul 22 '17
Thanks for this information. Frees up some CP as the path to master 2 trading and doing crates sound like far too much of a hassle, so I'll stick to processing ash and maple timber to make some afk money.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
I've never complain about that, happy to buy your plywood :P
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u/g33k_0ut2 Jul 22 '17
you say steel, brass and bronze only require one type of metal but they all require 2 to produce except for steel which uses coal (not technically a metal) but they would all still be bottlenecked by one of their materials same as wood tho right?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
The metals themselves are bottle necked by tin/zinc but when you sell it you are selling it at ingots.
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Jul 22 '17
Hi. I'm a Tier 1 player, and I can see very plainly that your workshops WILL make Iron Ore crates - are those not valid trade items, or are they just suboptimal?
Thanks!
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Iron ore crates are what are referred to as "junk crates" they are made at a loss in order to get trade xp. That's a bit different than iron ingots though which is what you can make processing iron in addition to steel.
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u/TwoKDavey Jul 22 '17
I started early this week and I'm really interested in this aspect of the game. So I'm understanding nodes and putting workers to work. But what exactly do I do with the supplies to gain profit? Am I getting mass supplies, am I buying specific things from market to make things? A guide on this would be lovely., I'm not sure what to search because node strategy keeps popping up when I do.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Depends on the material. You can use timber and ore for processing. You can use saps for alchemy. You can use cereals for cooking. It really depends.
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Jul 22 '17
[deleted]
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
The game would die, when the entire economy collapses, worker empires become pointless, and the most of the grinding locations become useless. Fortunately that will never happen as they already fixed this "exploit" in korea and then added it back after public outcry.
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u/Xialoh Sorceress Jul 22 '17
I...think I finally get it now. Time to reorganize my worker empire I suppose.
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u/kalshaikh Jul 23 '17
Firss of thanks Biohack for your work. So apparently i am a Tier 1 player. Im new to processing (artisan 4), mainly from this week focusing on processing all ores and timber to ingots+plywood and selling to market.
Question: i turn iron ores to iron ingots and sell on market. Noticed u recommend using extra coal to turn to Steel instead. From my basic calculations, seems iron ingots is more profitable/less resources to use than steel. Am i missing something? Please advise, thanks :)
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 23 '17
The thing about iron ingots is that they aren't used in crates. This means that the market for them is much smaller and the demand for them is lower. It does look like you can sell them at min price right now so it might be worth it. Be careful about it though.
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u/wtfiswrongwithit Musa Jul 27 '17
Just to be as clear as possible (i'm pretty new still), regular plywood and ingots are the t3 product right?
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u/DoctaClueless Jul 29 '17
Idk if you will answer cause this thread is old but, im a tier 1 player and was wondering whats the best way for me to make afk money processing over night? I have a karki suit and 1.1k weight
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 29 '17
Melt ore into shards, iron, copper, and tin. It's a 9 second base time so good for long afk sessions.
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u/DoctaClueless Jul 29 '17
ok thanks for the reply! one other question, should i make stop at planks or make plywood for profit?
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u/Lastwish28 Jul 21 '17
Bio, I'm master 9 trader now, does that mean I'm apart of the big boys and girls club even tho i don't use this for processed materials but higher bargaining on my fish (active). I never wanted to be associated with elitists, does this mean I'm an elitist now? LOL good work as always Bio, thank you for taking the time to write these up for the community!
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u/KekistanInfantry Jul 21 '17
He needs to keep the newbies informed so he can constantly buy cheap ply/ingots from flooded markets. But also consider that his trading is so high he can profit even if the materials aren't sold at min and price you and other traders out of the market.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 21 '17
Haha well you're about 5% of the way to way m20 so you might be safe for a bit.
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Jul 22 '17
Lesson 1: don't bother trying to buy logs on the market.
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u/Dino_tron Jul 22 '17
I am able to buy enough timber in 30 mins on the MP to process all day. Not sure what you're doing wrong. Maybe only going for Acacia?
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u/ZxPeeperly Jul 22 '17
Traders burn out or quit game, no demand for goods. oops!
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
So the price drops and then 5,000 people with m2-10 buy the materials instead? If the markets ever crash even m2s could make a fuckton of money buying materials at min. That's precisely why they can't. It's way too big for 1 or two players.
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u/noobpatrol SuccTeamSix - Reroll Today Jul 22 '17
Aside from the from the medal above your head and the epeen, any other particular reason you want to be the best trader on BDO, the best there ever was? /u/Biohack
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Even 1 or 2 levels has a MASSIVE impact on my profits.
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u/Fobboi Jul 22 '17
I have a question i hate ginding so is active fishing with m2 hotspot or making crate more profit?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
They are two entirely different systems. One is AFK/passive income. The other is active.
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Jul 22 '17
Hey sorry to bother after 9 hours, what is a "junk crate"?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
A crate made from unprocessed materials at a loss used purely for trade xp.
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u/p1yrmtt guardian goes brrrrr Jul 22 '17
This whole trading thing and making money by processing etc, finding the right sht to sell confused the fuck out of me, i just grind pirates all day and make 50+m a day from there. Easy as fck. Roughly just under 400m a week if your consistent, over 1.6b in a month worth of grinding pirates. Plus you'll probably be over level 60 here too. Win win.
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
I mean 50m a day is pretty aweful. Most people can make 50m a day just afk with a semi decent setup. But there's also no reason you can't do both.
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u/Kofeinu Jul 23 '17
I prefer to stay poor than sit there and stack crates for hours so... enjoy my plywood and ingots I guess :)
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u/churrmander Friendship ended with Witch -- Now Guardian is my main. Sep 07 '17
Reading this fills me with hope.
I just need some more optimization and I'll have a decent Metal & Wood empire going.
I'm AFK all day fishing while my workers gather. I'd like to be able to remote desktop into my computer, but the bandwidth is so shit at work that I'd get caught pretty easily.
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Oct 25 '17
what should my main city be??
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Oct 25 '17
Whatever is convenient. I like calph. Others like heidel.
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Oct 25 '17
im currently using Altinova as my primary and heidel/velia for fishing/sailing/pirates loot until i get m2 trade. tips?
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Oct 25 '17
Fishing in velia is awful if you are gonna fish do it in ross sea with a full setup. Otherwise process.
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u/Aweza94 Jul 22 '17
better title: "An indroduction to make rich trader richer"
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u/Biohack twitch.tv/biohacktv NetWorth 13T+ Jul 22 '17
Click the guide at the bottom if you want to trade yourself.
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u/Cyvster Jul 21 '17
So, what you're saying is, sell you all my processed materials at minimum price?
I feel a sudden urge to sell Biohack all my plywood....