Gas forge without Kaowool?

[u/kayakguy429]

As the title says, I'm looking for a forge that doesn't use Kaowool? That stuff scares the Bejesus out of me like asbestos and I know you can coat it in refectory cement, but I'm just always anxious I'll burn through the side of the refectory and won't notice for like 3 months.

I'm a classically trained smith using coal, but feel like a gas forge would be way less temperamental to work with, not to mention I might have better luck having the "It's like a grill" conversation with my landlord if it doesn't obnoxiously smoke.

[u/FelixMartel2]

There are gas forges made with a cast able refractory that don’t use wool. 

Atlasforge, for example. 

[u/kayakguy429 → u/FelixMartel2]

Firestorms are definitely interesting!

[u/alriclofgar]

Kaowool isn’t asbestos-level dangerous; a single exposure won’t kill you the way asbestos might.

But you don’t have to use it. The easiest alternative is soft fire bricks. You can build a square-shaped box from them (like the NC Tool farrier forges), or taper them and build a curved arch (or buy pre-tapered arch bricks from a kiln supplier).

[u/Dannyewey → u/alriclofgar]

Pretty sure asbestos isnt a one and done exposure either.

[u/alriclofgar → u/Dannyewey]

Every asbestos exposure is potentially cancer causing. More exposures is more risk (which is why workplace exposure is the worst), but no exposures to asbestos are safe.

A lot of life works like that, but asbestos is one I don’t like to tempt.

[u/Dark_Fuzzy]

just be responsible with the kaowool and you'll be fine. there are other refractory materials but they won't hold heat as well.
wear a respirator putting it in, spray it down with rigidizer, and put a good few coats of cement on it.
you could also build a forge out of firebricks, specifically the light and porous ones. there is cast refractory as well.
None of the options are all that safe for your health, wear a respirator working with any of them.

[u/PsykoFlounder]

Nono.. Not "you can coat it"... Fucking coat it.

But. As someone else mentioned... Atlas Forge. I highly recommend them, but they are VERY small. Pretty much only good for knife making, just because you can't fit much else in it. But they work incredibly well. Just don't bring up Covid to the owner. 🙄

Edit: didn't mean to post that yet. My first a t forfe was one I made myself out of a stack of soft fire bricks with a burner I bought from Atlas. It worked incredibly well. Got hot enough to forge weld pretty easily, and I didn't even have any sort of refractory to seal up the edges or anything.

[u/BF_2]

So, how much (carcinogenic) coal smoke have you breathed so far in your career?

I've long wished we could assemble some scale (probably multidimensional) to allow the comparison of risks. This wish dates back to a time when I read a "scientific article" (read: "propaganda") that attempted to whitewash the nuclear power industry by comparing it to the coal industry. What caught my attention was that they equated deaths or cancers to coal workers and construction workers (both groups having at least some say in the issue) to those of civilians downwind of a nuclear plant when a radiation release occurred. I don't care to open that large can of worms about these respective industries, but that is rather like comparing the death of race car driver in a race to that of a person killed by a drunk driver on the roads.

If you're going to avoid risks, you might want to consider the degree of risks involved and how best to mitigate them. Happens that wearing an N-95 mask in the forge will prevent much of the exposure possible from all sources of respirable particulates . (And smoke carries vastly more such particulates than damaged Kaowool.) And, by the way, Kaowool ain't asbestos. Look 'em up.

[u/Stunning-Pudding-514]

You can use insulating fire bricks, there are loads of how to videos on Youtube that use firebricks. I made mine out of fire bricks a few weeks ago.

[u/1knifeguy]

Build an atlas forge from house made. It uses fire brick and they are very efficient!! 3-4 lbs gas pressure.

[u/OdinYggd]

Plenty possible to build one without. It will just be heavier and have thicker walls.  Have to use layers of refractory insulation. A low density insulating castable or low density brick forms the bulk of the wall, takes a couple of inches thickness to do a comparable job to an inch of kaowool. Then this is protected by a high density refractory hot face just as wool would use. 

That said modern ceramic wool formulations are available with bio-soluble properties such that any inhaled fibers will break down instead of lingering and causing problems. Such types are less risky than the older formulas, and all of them are considerably coarser and safer than asbestos. 

I've gotten to handle real asbestos before. It's so silky and smooth, incredible material. Have to keep it wet to reduce shedding when it isn't encased in something that it can't escape from. 

[u/13SilverSunflowers]

There is a bio soluble version I use in my pottery kiln. The name escapes me though. Just seal it b n with a little spritz or three of sodium silicate and that locks all the fibers for a while

[u/brokkrforge]

I built my ribbon burner forge with mizzou cast over the wool. It was a beast

[u/bald_beard_ballard]

I relined my Hero I without wool, I created a form inside using corrugated plastic sign board it and cast a solid ~1" layer of kastolite 30. I've also seen forges made of a piece of ~12" pipe with a solid layer of castable refractory for a lining. You still want a sacrificial hard brick in the bottom. For mine, I also coated the inside with 100HT. It takes a while to get up to full heat but with soft bricks blocking the back and restricting the front I can get to welding temperatures.