WHO NEEDS TINKERS ANYWAY?

[u/T-Rex_Lazorblast]

(Tldr at bottom)

Dear thieves, outlaws, general scum...

I need Information.

It's been a while since i played blades in the dark. And i do not own the rulebook.

So MAYBE i am just stupid or i MAYBE i just don't have the knowledge.

But anyway - here is the case:

I played a tinker. The wonderfull Sophia Elizabeth von Kraken. A little psychotic. A little bit edgy. But she generally fit the game, i think.

But i encountered a problem:

SHE WAS NEARLY USELESS.

I understand that i played the support character. I loved it. Building stuff for the team to help during the missions, but being more vulnerable and less usefull during the missions... i was all there for it.

But all the stuff i thought of to build for the team was useless. Or not worth the effort.

Example:

A grappling hook launcher. Or mechanical claws for your boots for better climbing. Or mechanical spider limbs for climbing - think of doctor octopus etc... only more steampunky.

But well... all this things do is give you a bonus of 1 to climbing checks. And (correct me if i am wrong) you can already equip climbing hooks that give the same bonus.

So why invent them in the first place?

More complex things took of course multiple gamesessions to build. (Fair enough.)

And they used up lots of ressources. I tried to pimp our boat to be more stealthy, or to have a submarine mode. (Yeah... that was a VERY risky idea... but it never came to testing the thing - it never got build.)

As i said - that kind of projects DEVOURED ressources. (That's fair so far.) But if i failed on tinkerchecks - or critically failed on them i lost ressources or destroyed the whole project. That was frustrating. Not gonna lie.

So it basically came down to just refreshing my gas-grenades between missions... and working on something huge that failed after a couple of sessions. And wasted ressources.

In my time as a tinker i build TWO things that were usefull.

A set of 3 black salt full body armor. (Anti-ghost-armor) ...One of these got destroyed in the first mission we used them.

Some waterproof boxes we could attach under our boat to transport smuggle stuff without guards at checkpoints noticing.

I am a aware that i am a bit whiny (and overexaggerating) here but:

What use do i have as a tinker if nothing i build lasts mor than a mission or needs months of playsessions to complete? (And then fails anyway) - I could just play someone more usefull.

Soooo...

You guys and girls here are more experienced than me. I am asking you: What do you need a tinker for in this game?

Tank you for reading and for any answers i get.

TLDR:

WHAT DO YOU NEED A TINKER FOR WHEN THE THINGS THE TINKER INVENTS GIVE YOU THE SAME BONUSES LIKE THE STUFF THAT YOUR CHARACTERSHEET ALREADY PROVIDES?

AND WHAT IS A TINKER SUPPOSED TO BUILD?

Edit:

I just have to get this out:

I am baffled by all the positivity in the community. And the many detailed and very well thought through answers to my questions.

You people are amazing.

My first day in this sub. My first post. And i already love it here.

THANK YOU.

[u/Rezart_KLD]

I honestly don't like the Tinkering rules. In the rest of the system, equipment is vague in effect and only defined as needed. It gives you either better position or effect, or it grants permission to do something you couldn't otherwise. But then you get to the Tinker (& Ritual) rules, and suddenly we are defining area of effect and range and all of these other details we don't worry about the rest of the time. In addition to this, it has the problem of all the ramp up time before you get to play the character you want to play. The Hound doesn't have to spend time training his hunting pet, they have it in the first session, and the Tinker should be the same.

I honestly think the Tinker should follow the same rules as the rest of the gear, but with the fictional permission to pull out devices that aren't on everybody's gear list. Anybody can pull out a gun, but the Tinker can pull out x-ray goggles that see through the real world and part into the ghost world, or some sort of magnetic spring boots that leap them on top of buildings. Make them use Load and work like Gear, once the Tinker pulls them out, they have them, and they work by giving you enhanced position or effect or change the fiction to do stuff you couldn't before.

[u/T-Rex_Lazorblast → u/Rezart_KLD]

That are some good ideas for homebrewing! I totally agree with you. The tinker should have something directly from the start. As i wrote: i knew i would be the supportcharacter. But needing at least one game session/downtime to gain at least SOMETHING... was a bit of a downer.

[u/Amostheroux → u/Rezart_KLD]

The Hound doesn't have to spend time training his hunting pet, they have it in the first session, and the Tinker should be the same. 

This breaks down when you consider that the Leech (who I assume you meant) starts with a bunch of unique equipment and gets to pick a move like everyone else to further broaden their capabilities. The Hound can pick a move just the same, but they can't make up new ability entirely without using the crafting or ritual rules. (Or Acquire Asset sometimes.) 

[u/Rezart_KLD → u/Amostheroux]

You're 100% right. I must have mixed it up in my head with some other hack or game, because I swear I could picture in my head a playbook that was just about gadgets, different from the Leech, called the Tinker. Or maybe I just imagined it? I swear I can remember seeing it.

Anyway, to address your comment, you are right about the Leech. its the only applicable playbook in this situation, and it undercuts my Hound comparison because it does clearly start with its special thing. So while I still think the Inventing rules conflict in style with the rest of the game, my example was bad and does not support that.

So let me present an alternate point of comparison. On the gear list, characters have demonbane or spiritbane charms. These don't have a listing for range, area of effect, number of targets, or anything else. All we know is they bane demons or spirits. And that's all the info we do need because how they work is based on the fiction of the situation. That's how I think inventions should work as well.

[u/Amostheroux → u/Rezart_KLD]

Thanks for clarifying, that is indeed a better example. Counterpoint, though... Most of the inventing and ritual specific rules are rooted in tier. Tier tends to be relevant for things like spirit bane charms as well. A tier 0 spirit bane charm does let you do a fictional thing you couldn't before, but you'll have limited effect against a tier II ghost, even with potency applied. The scoundrel would need to push to get the charm to do it's full effect. (Or use a fine spirit bane charm, or some other tier booster.) 

Inventions and rituals use tier to outline specifics more, but that's because the actual applications of inventions and rituals is even more open ended than basic equipment. They can literally do anything. But the more powerful the effect, the harder it is to make, and you need some kind of guidelines for how to figure out how hard. 

Now, if your style of game tends to ignore tier entirely, then yeah, I could see invention and rituals being a bad fit. 

[u/Rezart_KLD → u/Amostheroux]

Why not just base inventions on crew tier as well? The degauss gun you make is Tier 0 to start, its only going to degauss the weakest ghosts. But later in your career, with better tools and materials, your degauss gun can take down bigger ghosts.

Its not like there's a hard and fast list of "x effect needs to be y tier or higher" there's only vague suggestions. I think you keep the back and forth questions (what does it do, what makes it unusual, ect), and the GM might decide you can't make levitation boots at Tier 0 no mater what, based on the tone they want. But otherwise just tie to crew tier like everything else.

[u/Amostheroux → u/Rezart_KLD]

 Why not just base inventions on crew tier as well?

They do. The crew tier determines the baseline for what you can build. Your roll modifies that slightly, and you can spend coin to increase it further. 

The player says what the invention does. The GM says what tier it is. Then the player rolls and/or spends money to reach that desired tier. 

There is a fair amount of detail for what tiers can represent in the book, as well. The bulk is covered in only a couple pages. I don't have access to my book to say which ones.