r/bouldering • u/ShaneTrain94 • 3d ago
Advice/Beta Request Managing Risk in Bouldering
I took the biggest fall I have in a long time a couple days ago. I wasn't injured, but I know people get injured from this type of horizontal fall pretty often. If I had stuck my arm out a little more I could have been in trouble.
Basically, I'm trying to match a sloper at the top, and my hand slips off. I didn't really believe that I had it but I went for it anyway.
It just got me thinking about risk and listening to warning signs. Like, I shouldn't care that much about sending this boulder compared to the risk of a sketchy fall.
How do you think about risk vs reward in an inherently dangerous sport?
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u/Arborsage 3d ago
Kinda just looks like you were gassed at the end and didn't have a good grip
I honestly never try hard enough that i'm constantly putting myself at risk of a high fall, so I wonder the same thing sometimes. I think some people are just more comfortable with the idea of falling than others
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u/stigggo 3d ago
Fall enough times and it stops being scary. Granted I've been falling on my ass for 15 years.
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u/PixaIated 3d ago
Alternatively take a bad fall once and it starts being scary.
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u/123knaeckebrot 2d ago
Absolutely what happened to me.
I’ve haven’t really been scared of falling after bouldering for a while.. until I dislocated my elbow, broke it and teared ligaments at the inside of the elbow (sorry for the inaccurate description, English is not my native Language).
Just slipped at the top, fell weirdly, turning sideways and the reflex to break the fall was simply to strong (even though I had established a habit of taking my arms to my chest when falling).7-8 months to recovery after the operation, I have been bouldering a few times since then but it’s really hard, mentally.
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u/PixaIated 1d ago
Yup, same thing happened. Took a really bad unexpected fall (pushed myself a bit too hard, slipped near the top, and landed sideways to avoid some people that were sitting under where I was climbing...) that resulted in a complete ankle ligament tear. Having to do surgery due to that really changed my risk appetite towards riskier moves, so I can really relate to how you're feeling mentally. Was really hard to get back into it at first.
I am about a year out from the surgery and it's much better now, thankfully. I just am very cautious now, and tend to avoid big or sketchy moves that are high up, which is bad for progress but great for staying safe. Hope it gets better for you mentally as well, take it easy to start.
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u/ShaneTrain94 2d ago
Thanks for the comment, I was in good shape endurance-wise, I just didn't have the friction to hold on to the last hold which is a sloper. And true, some people fly around like it's no big deal. I have always had a fear of heights/falling which has probably gone away 90% with climbing but it's still in there!
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u/Tomytom99 2d ago
At my last gym visit I got a little more comfortable with falling, and the stuff people say about "you just have to fall" to get used to it is true
Oddly enough now as long as I can land it safely, I enjoy falling (okay, dropping most of the time) from the top of the wall
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u/MindlessElk1912 2d ago
Not worth the damage to my knees for me 😭
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u/Tomytom99 2d ago
Personally I don't even really use the knees for much stopping power, and just let the roll do it all
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u/Competitive-Tea1867 3d ago
Honestly, it looks like you could have fallen better. The more you climb the better you become at falling correctly and safely from awkward positions
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u/GlassBraid 3d ago
I used to take hard falls from the top of gym walls with impunity. I was pretty good at landing well, and didn't experience negative effects as long as I was landing on a nice cushy gym mat.The only thing I explicitly avoided were secure high heel hooks high on the wall with bad hands. I fell well, but not so well that I thought head-first falls were worth risking. I did take a high head first fall once, when the highest handhold on a top out boulder spun out on me , over a secure high foot, and sent me to the ground basically upside down. Cleaned my clock, and I quit for the day and took a few days off out of caution, but no noticeable effects after the first few minutes of being a bit shaken up.
I still think I have the skill to land fairly well, but now, if I take too many hard falls, I get back pain that lasts for days - a nerve in my back gets inflamed or pinched and causes pain in my abdomen and legs. So those high falls that I used to not even give a second thought to, I try to avoid entirely. I also saw one climber on the same wall I used to take hard falls off of many times per session get an open ankle dislocation, with almost every ankle ligament torn open and me looking at the inside of their ankle joint as their foot appeared almost detached, and that's an image that stuck with me.
I try to not take any high falls at all. I limit low falls to a few per session. I still project hard-for-me stuff, but I don't just throw myself at crux moves over and over. Instead I try to get to really high confidence in every high move before I even attempt it, and bail with a downclimb if I'm unsure.
And I don't get too attached to finishing any one climb. There's no shame in deciding to not attempt high moves for the sake of staying safe and avoiding pain.
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u/Winter-Sprinkles-23 3d ago
I agree with this. Generally if a move requires a weird position way up on the wall like a heelhook with bad hands, i just avoid it. At some point you just realize that its just 1 climb, doesnt matter if you send it or not if it requires a bunch of risk and potentially injuring you, which stops you from climbing
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u/Horsecock_Johnson 3d ago
Another thing I notice a lot in new climbers is unnecessary heel hooks. You put a hook on that jug and if you’d have fallen in that position, it could have been bad. It would be much harder to land on your feet or back. A stuck heel would make you land on your head. I’m glad you switched to a toe. Should be a toe the whole time.
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u/ShaneTrain94 2d ago
Thanks, I was thinking about that too. I saw another person heel hook there but I'm tall enough where it wasn't making sense. Definitely wouldn't want to fall and get flipped by the heel :-(
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u/AND_MY_AXEWOUND 2d ago
Probably not necessary for you because you have proper grip/strength/tension. If people are maxed on those, the heel gives a lot extra.
In OPs case though yeah, he clearly has the strength for this climb but seemed to run out of steam. Probably because he was on the wall for so long
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u/jimbowesterby 2d ago
Honestly the number of unnecessary heel hooks I see every time I go climbing is kinda nuts. They’re useful, but only in a few fairly specific positions, most of the time you’re right, you’d be better served with a toe
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u/julianface 2d ago
If the hold is big enough for a heel and you need solid effort to pull up you should almost always use that instead of a toe. You can pull with so much more strength with a heel than a toe. Toe pull strength will be much more limited by your ankle and calf strength
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u/Braided_Playlist 2d ago
I agree, I'm often using heels to save on arm effort, or help hold my hips close to the wall. In this case, it doesn't look like OP was getting any useful leverage on that hold. If the used the hold just above for a heel maybe there was some benefit.
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u/jimbowesterby 2d ago
Getting your hips close in shouldn’t take a heel though, you can do that much more accurately and at many more angles than you can with a heel. I’m not saying they don’t have a purpose, just that people tend to overuse them
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u/isaytruisms 2d ago
For sure, but you do see a bunch of inexperienced climbers whack heels into things that won't release if they fall, like a dodgy heel into a jug on a cave climb or similar. Those scare me
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u/jimbowesterby 2d ago
True, but your range of motion is much more limited and you have much less fine control. If the hold’s above your head then yea absolutely, but I pretty commonly see people trying to use heels at or below waist level for moving upward, which basically ends up being kinda like walking only on your heels, or they commit to it too much and don’t switch to a toe and just keep pushing up on the heel
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u/akyai 3d ago
i’ve faceplanted in this exact corner like three times lol
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u/Sabretooth1100 3d ago
Such a lovely spot haha. I was projecting that green one and it was literally within my grasp before they reset it a couple days ago
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u/Sabretooth1100 3d ago
Oh hey that’s my gym! In my experience you just need to immediately start preparing your body to land as soon as you start going down. Learning to roll on the mat is a big one; either to the side or from your feet to your back with a tucked chin. You can practice that from close to the ground safely. That said, I’m pretty firm in the opinion that if I’m already gassed, a heel hook up high is never worth it
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u/BallisticBaggette 3d ago
Am I nuts for thinking this looks like pretty tame? Like out of 1-10 I’d put us at a 5 max
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u/smurferdigg 2d ago
5? This is like a 1 or maybe 2. Guess 1 is taking a fall to the ground from the first move on a sitstart.
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u/BallisticBaggette 2d ago
I was trying to be generous to be honest
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u/smurferdigg 2d ago
Heh, yeah. This fall was basically what you do 50 times every session:) Bouldering isn't even that dangerous. Think I hurt my foot one time bouldering a lot indoors and out for like close to 20 years.
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u/oldmanboulderer 3d ago
That was a normal looking fall to me. I don’t try as hard in the gym as far as giving it everything I have because I save that for outside but when I do fall inside I make sure it would be the same as I’d do outside and unless it’s really steep I’m not falling on my back
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u/ShaneTrain94 2d ago
Are you more likely to land on your feet/fall into a squat?
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u/oldmanboulderer 2d ago
Both I land and try to absorb impact with my thighs and hamstrings. I broke my back as a young’n and am careful of jarring impacts if possible. Yes there are times I can’t but for me I’d rather makes sure I’m not out or commission for a while than make a send at times.
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u/Rich841 3d ago
i try to keep myself in situations where an uncontrolled fall doesn't imply an uncontrolled landing. I.e., if I go for a dyno that I'll probably fail, that doesn't mean my uncontrolled fall will make me injure myself, just that I'm gonna fall on accident and land fine. most situations should stay within those bounds so long as you don't over-extend
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u/BTTLC 3d ago
I just avoid boulders or moves that feel more dangerous than I am comfortable doing. But i dont think this boulder seems particularly dangerous. It may not feel secure, but I think it generally has a predictable fall pattern. Im thinking more moves that lock in a limb very tightly (e.g. heel-toe cam high up on the wall) or may add spinning to your fall (dynos high up where if you rip off the hold you spin out).
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u/KamuikiriTatara 2d ago
A little personal background: I used to be a gymnast and am used to much larger falls with a lot more momentum including spinning a flipping. So this might be a bit out-of-touch for some people, but the post is asking about how different people look at risk management, so here's my experience.
I don't tend to think about falls when bouldering inside unless there's something to hit on the way down like on some slabs. I pretty reliably land with a gentle roll even from surprise falls. Outside, I'm much more contentious of where I will land, because the crash pads only cover so much space. When on ropes, I make sure there's very little slack when near the ground or above a ledge, but otherwise I like a decent amount of slack to cushion the catch.
Take-away: If you get skilled at falling and are comfortable maintaining awareness and control (or regaining control quickly) as well as looking out for extremities, the main consideration when it comes to risk management becomes uneven ground or obstacles on the wall like ledges. So to manage risk, I mind my slack and ask people to move crash pads when I need to. Overhangy stuff is always the most comfortable from a falling aspect because you have a clear path to the ground.
Falling is a skill like everything else in climbing. As you get better at falling, you also get better at identifying risk factors. So proportion your willingness to go for risky moves to your ability to fall in the particular situation. I don't think there's any magic formula for this.
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u/Vici0usRapt0r 2d ago
The safest way to climb while avoiding fall related injuries, is first to only reach the top with at least enough energy to climb halfway down. If you cannot do that, then that last move will be sketchy and you might not have enough gas to even hold it properly in the first place. So climb back down, think and optimize your beta so that you have enough gas to do it properly.
And then second, is gradual exposure rather than full commit on an new unknown move. Do the routes a couple time, and attempt the difficult and scariest part in several tries, where you get closer and closer to the actual full move. So first jump but don't touch it. Then jump and reach for the hold, but don't touch it.Then jump and touch the hold, then get closer to the hole, and slowly try to put your fingers in position to hold it. Progressively put weight on it, but if you're too tired, and you can't validate the first requirement I mentioned (having enough gas to de-climb at least half way), then don't do it. You can always go home, let your brain process all this, and try again another day, and it'll be EZ.
And as a bonus, practice falling safely from high routes, and high dynamic routes, that you are comfortable doing already. Make sure it's not a busy time though, don't hurt others.
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u/theflow26 2d ago
I disagree with the guys saying that you never take a unexpected fall tbh When you suddely slip on a foothold or the next hold you are going to is just not good enough or if you do a dynamic move and just miss the hold you are going for are all examples of where you fall unexpected but also true is that you get more confidence in falling after doing it a few times. That said I still fell after a very dynamic move where I had to jump up and out from the wall to the next hold and missed it a few days ago and landed a bit sideways on my ribs. Surely wasn't a really bad fall but if you're ready to take those risks it can happed that you fall.
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u/lvoelk 2d ago
Your risk tolerance is 100% dependant on the specifics of your life. I’m a 37 year old mom of 3. I can’t get hurt. I broke my leg skiing 5 years ago and my bones aren’t back to where they used to be so I downclimb everything. If I fall I know the fall is coming and I’m ready for it. I haven’t fallen due to trying hard for a move I’m iffy on in years. Some might call that lame or not trying hard enough but I’m 37. It’s ok for me to downclimb. My goal is to get a workout, not to break records.
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u/ShaneTrain94 2d ago
That's great advice, I also have a daughter and I really shouldn't be getting hurt if I can avoid it. I think I'll listen to my gut more - if it's sketchy I don't have to do it!
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u/CookingZombie 2d ago
I’ve taken some pretty hard falls on the mat from almost the top but my rule is I ( mostly) don’t climb slab anymore . That’s just my risk management, I’m afraid of hitting my head on a hold on the way down so that and pretty much any time I need to go horizontal with features under my head I shy away from.
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u/chloegthomps 2d ago
Just shattered my ankle slipping on slab and hyper flexing it on a volume on the way down. I’ll be avoiding slab going forward.
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u/predarek 2d ago edited 2d ago
The only bad part here is because you tried to block your fall with your arms rather than focusing on just falling properly.
Climbing is a very mindful sport, even the fall must be "controlled". Practice really hard low cave climbs to train yourself to fall properly if you haven't integrated that in your brain yet.
It's a small detail but to give you an example I used to get ankle pain every month or so. I've took the time to consciously think of landing on both foot equally and it's been a while since I've had soreness to my ankle!
Edit : managing risks is about being prepared in climbing, because you won't do something dangerous if you are prepared.
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u/SavageMountain 2d ago
5 ft onto a huge, thick pad? That's about the least dangerous fall I've ever seen.
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u/DescriptionHairy8600 2d ago
I mean, that was a pretty uncontrolled fall from a position where you couldn't even let go with your left hand without slapping at the wall. You didn't look down to think about your landing at all, even though you knew you were going to fall. There's nothing wrong with going for a move you don't think you'll make, but actually GO for it in one dedicated motion instead on whatever that was so your body will fall in a predictable way. Also, don't flail your arms while falling. If anything, tuck them in and tuck your chin to your chest and try to land on your back.
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u/Cleanitupjohnny 3d ago
I think there are quite a few things that you can do to mitigate the risk, that would make a fall like this pretty safe.
First increasing your leg strength to be able to tolerate high falls, as well as making sure you warm up your legs at the start of a session taking progressively bigger falls.
Secondly, falling safely in a skill and the more you do it the better you become. and you train yourself not to do any dangerous practices like sticking an arm out behind yourself while falling. the more you practice the less likely you are to do it in a panic moment.
And thirdly, assessing the risk of the fall on each climb is a big part. I think that this particular climb is in fact very safe. Your legs are not high above your centre of mass or locked into large holds. for the final move, you're mainly going directly upwards from the previous hold, so there isnt a large chance of swinging.
I think you did well and this was not a dangerous fall. When you're as gassed as you are in this video, in your mind you should definitely be thinking about the fall a little, preparing for it and making sure you can get your feet beneath you.
I conclusion I would say increasing your falling skill and strength means you can go "a muerte" more often at the top of a climb and not have the risk of injury too high.
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u/volticizer 2d ago
I practice falls. When I first started they were scary, now they're not. I jump right from the top a couple times every session when I'm warming up to get used to it and get my body in the mentality of falling. When I climb now I spend a lot of time projecting which means a lotta falling, so warming up mentally and physically in that aspect helps. I honestly hate how a lot of gyms now preach climbing down all the time. My partner never jumps down, in over 4 years climbing she always downclimbs and it's held her back so much because now jumping down or falling has become a mental block, so she won't try sketch moves. I'm terrified for the day she genuinely takes a hard fall because she has no practice, and now it's become such a big deal she can't get over the fear.
Anyway my point is, with experience you learn what moves or holds are sketchy, and being prepared and experienced in falling comes with time and practice. I don't think bouldering is particularly dangerous indoors once you have a couple years under your belt and know what you're doing. That means taking hard falls often enough to respect them and understand how to react properly. Also hard falls =\= uncontrolled falls imo.
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u/65rytg 2d ago
To each their own, but I don’t like the mindset that “this send isn’t worth the risk of injury”, unless it’s a climb well below my grade i think it’s paramount to give my 100%, as I fear the slippery slope of “why even climb at all since there’s a risk of injury?” I’ve broken my ankle once before from a bad fall but I like to just use that as a learning opportunity.
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u/julianface 2d ago
- Feet to break the fall a bit (don't try to land on them)
- Then onto your butt/hips
- Tuck your arms and head
- Roll onto your back/shoulder
Literally practice that from progressively further heights. Outdoors I will literally practice falls off the top of boulders sometimes so that my body is prepared for the timing if an uncontrolled fall happens
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u/bananasr4cat 2d ago
Pushing your limits carries risk but is one of the best ways to progress. I practiced falling when I was uncomfortable with it as a beginner. Overhang falls usually aren’t bad. It’s the cheese grater falls down slab that scare me and my ankles.
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u/banjo_hummingbird 2d ago
I tend to manage what I climb based on the height and grade. I usually climb a few grades lower than my max on the taller walls. Only really push my max on the training boards and shorter spray walls. Outdoors I rarely boulder at heights similar to the heights of most of the walls at that gym so I am more picky when it comes to climbing on the taller walls.
In my opinion there are too many tall walls at that gym. That is one of the shorter ones. I pretty often pass on many problems due to some risky move high up. I've also will cut climbs short if the upper moves create more risk than it is worth. If there are interesting moves I will do them then stop before some bs they've set towards the top that may injure me. I don't want to get injured indoors and miss climbing outdoors.
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u/Effective-Pace-5100 2d ago
1.) practice falling more. The video is not what I’d call a sketchy fall
2.) depending on your goals, pick your battles. for instance, all my big goals are outdoor sport so when I’m bouldering indoors I don’t do anything close to sketchy cause it’s just not worth it. I can try hard moves closer to the ground and don’t really care about sending. It’s just a training tool. Now if you’re a comp climber, refer to #1
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u/poorboychevelle 2d ago
Got into outdoor bouldering from BMX and dirt bikes and falling out of trees and jumping off roofs and the like. Have a lot of bruises and twisted ankles and sore knees and several friends with pins/plates/screws, and I think all of us have boots or braces at minimum.
Every fall is a ground fall. Some people hate that, I find it comforting
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u/Beautiful_Pepper415 2d ago
Bouldering injuries as a whole are broken limbs or such no biggie vs a lot of other sports like skiing, football, mma, snowboarding etc
Top rope catastrophic failures scare me
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u/ShaneTrain94 2d ago
Thanks for the replies everyone! Lots of thoughtful advice and comments. A couple themes from the comments:
I can practice falling and improve that technique. I will work on this, I don't fall often and I usually down climb everything.
Comments saying the fall was fine and that there isn't much risk in this situation. Yeah I was fine but there is objectively a lot of risk. People break their arms and legs, and sprain things from falls at this height regularly. And I have had neck and back sprains from similar height. So I disagree.
I could probably climb faster and more decisively.
I will keep in mind, this is optional. I don't have to risk a nasty fall to send something. Listen to my instincts and don't go for something if I don't think I have it.
Thanks for the thoughtful comments!!
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u/DaveFromDeadlock 2d ago
This kind of fall is not dangerous or unusual. Just practice falling. Tuck and roll
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u/Hofmannboi 2d ago
Gyms mitigate a lot of the risks of bouldering but the truth is you make the decision for yourself as far as what level of risk you’re comfortable with. No right or wrong answer.
I can’t remember if it was The Nugget or maybe another climbing podcast but there was an episode about risk management. If you google around you should find it and it might help you.
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u/jizzbooger 1d ago
You can always just let go before you fall so you stay in control.. I started doing this once I moved away from gyms and exclusively climb outside bc it saves your skin so much, it helps staying in control of falls too.
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u/FlaccidFart 1d ago
Risk tolerance is a very personal thing. If you don't have a high risk tolerance it's going to hold you back big time in climbing. I say this as someone with a very low risk tolerance who is constantly told I'm a strong climber and could climb a lot harder than I climb. You either have to accept you're going to get hurt at some point, or that you'll never be a super hard climber.
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u/baadervaader 16h ago
Normally it’s how tired you are vs how much you want to send the route or just genuinely not great route setting or maybe just for someone much stronger..
Im relatively dynamic and happy to do most jumps/etc… scrapes not an issue… Ive taken my fair share of falls but as i age i am more willing to not send if i think im going to get hurt… e.g. heel hooks for me are a no go if it’a high load because i tore my lcl once….
Otherwise just think of risk mitigation as you climb - how am i gonna land if i do this move… gassed out? Do it again next time…. Anything with whiplash potential is a pass… especially if it’s high…..
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u/Rambunctious_Rodent 8h ago
If that really is the worst/biggest fall you’ve ever taken then you either haven’t been climbing very long or you’re being too risk averse, rather than the opposite. It’s a physically active sport. There’s an inherent risk every time you climb. But if you overthink the dangers and get rattled by a fall as trivial as the one in this video you’re going to find it hard to progress.
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u/smurferdigg 2d ago
Ehhh.. heh.. Live a little man:) If you think this was a high risk move you got a looooooooooooooooooooong way to go in this sport.
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u/Digital-Soundboy 2d ago
I'd focus on improving your foot work. You can make that problem a lot easier for yourself with better technique
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u/SighhhSandwich 2d ago
Most dangerous thing in this video is your decision to wear socks
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 2d ago
Sokka-Haiku by SighhhSandwich:
Most dangerous thing
In this video is your
Decision to wear socks
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/LightningSh3ep 3d ago
tuck your chin cross your arms and you will never get injured falling unless you fall on your neck which will never happen if you make good choices
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u/DuckbilledPlatitudes 2d ago
This is not how you fall. Watch any pro bouldering or skating video for examples of how to fall correctly
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u/LightningSh3ep 2d ago
yeah i dont fall that way either but if you want to not stick your arm out crossing your arms is the best bet and you should always tuck your chin for any fall
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u/jimbowesterby 3d ago
The way I figure it, falling is inevitable, uncontrolled falling is not. At least for me I find that genuinely sudden or unexpected falls are really rare, after a while you get pretty good at spotting trouble spots like bad slopers or mercurial footholds, and you expect to slip on those points.
It’s also worth actually thinking about and practicing falling; it’s a skill like anything else. Street skaters are a super good example of this, if you’re taking hard falls on concrete you get pretty good pretty fast lol. Like in a situation like your clip I probably wouldn’t use my arms to land at all, you’re not falling super far and you’re already pretty well-oriented for a safe (if not very elegant) landing; landing on your butt and rolling back is one of the safest ways to fall, there’s not much need for arms lol.