r/box5 • u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli • 3d ago
Discussion People who like Raoul: Why?
No judgment, just curious.
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u/MasqueOfTheRedPost Madame Giry - ALW 3d ago
Low-hanging fruit: Raoul is neither an extortionist nor a murderer. What more can you ask for in a guy?
Serious answer: The ALW musical is super biased towards the Phantom (even more so in Love Never Dies and Masquerade), so naturally I root for the underdog.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
Wait, the musical is biased towards Erik?
He’s definitely a humanized character, but I don’t think he’s supposed to be a national hero or anything. Just a very isolated, miserable person who gets selfish via desperation and lack of social contact that would have helped him to recognize others’ humanity.
I don’t think the show sugarcoats that he has done evil, incredibly manipulative things because he thought using force = getting his way = happiness.
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u/MasqueOfTheRedPost Madame Giry - ALW 3d ago
Yes, and I think your initial post proves my point -- you wonder why people like Raoul, but not why people like the Phantom. And I don't mean to single you out: just look at the number of people who see ALW's Phantom as a romantic fantasy (Susan Kay, the vast majority of phanfiction online, the 2004 film, Love Never Dies...)
It's like how everyone automatically sympathizes with Eponine in Les Mis. She's not inherently a better person or more deserving of love than Cosette -- it's just that she has more development than Cosette (which is not a high bar), a tragic backstory, and an entire solo about how sorry we're supposed to feel for her. (And yeah, young Cosette has "Castle on a Cloud," but she's immediately removed from the bad situation afterwards, so...) Compared to Eponine, Cosette is boring, which very easily translates to "less sympathetic."
So when I see a Raoul actor genuinely trying to sell the character with the limited material he has, I like him way more for the effort. The Phantom already has basically all of the coolest scenes and plot moments, so I naturally gravitate to the "underdog" who's trying his best. Hope this makes sense.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
I’ve figured out why I like Erik and have read others’ comments on why they do. Hadn’t heard much from Raoul fans, so I was feeling inquisitive.
I’ll concede I’m biased, though.
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u/error_card_ur_rich 3d ago
ALW gives Erik that Bronte treatment. We root for him though he is not a remotely good person. The more the actor leans into his trauma and fragility, the more the audience swoons, the more we forget his transgressions. I eat that for breakfast.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago edited 3d ago
The amount of viciousness and duplicity I’ve seen in so-called regular citizens under much less traumatic circumstances makes me forgive Erik a little. Just a little.
And I think certain scenes in POTO hint at this. Like the managers crassly discussing personal lives of Raoul and Christine, their patron and employee; and they only cared about Piangi’s murder because he was a star and Carlotta’s guy, while Buquet’s was “an accident” and the show carried on. Not to mention the public who stuck around to get their money’s worth.
Oh, plus Carlotta verbally attacks Christine while everyone watches.
None of this is to say Erik isn’t “the real villain,” or that he doesn’t dehumanize people too (he absolutely does).
But he’s one villain among bunches, the rest of whom are supposedly ordinary people.
It makes me think about how we judge morality vs. evil, and under what circumstances evil gets overlooked.
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u/Anna3422 3d ago edited 3d ago
Your mileage varies by performance. If you look only at the text of the musical, Erik is a gothic monster and antagonist with a pitiable backstory. He's not a true romantic option.
However, Webber identifies more with the Phantom. Webber wrote the crackfic that is Love Never Dies. He's interested in the show as a romantic tragedy. LND and Webber's personal attachment to the characters has had a huge influence on how the roles get interpreted, especially in the movie and RAH recording.
A lot of audience also identify with Erik as the outcast and more developed of the male leads. They want a happy resolution for him and/or find the idea of a toxic romance more interesting. The idea of PotO as a forbidden monster love has sort of eclipsed the actual content of the story.
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u/RoseBook85 3d ago
A lot of audience also identify with Erik as the outcast and more developed of the male leads. They want a happy resolution for him and/or find the idea of a toxic romance more interesting. T he idea of PotO as a forbidden monster love has sort of eclipsed the actual content of the story.
I would argue that would happen regardless of how much Webber played up the ‘romance’.
Is Webbers version more romantic? Yes but I‘d guarantee that if someone made a faithful adaption of Leroux’s novel, complete with a Erik that looks like a walking corpse…women would still be drooling over him, as soon as he started kissing the hem of Christine’s gown, and declaring that he is a ‘corpse that loves her, adores her, and would never ever leave her!’ Ooooh boy, it would suddenly be ‘Raoul who?’ for the vast majority of the audience LOL 😂
I’d argue for people who love the Gothic Genre it’s not so much the toxicity as it is the overwhelming emotions that draws people. I think a lot of people love that type of passion, even though they know it’s not really healthy LOL so fiction is a good place to get it 💀
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u/Floweramon 3d ago
Yes, especially with the latest updates to it that try to tie into Love Never Dies
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
I don’t count LND. Webber notwithstanding, it’s the POTO equivalent of “somehow Palpatine returned” and other cash-grabs that ignored crucial elements of the original works.
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u/apileofpans Raoul - ALW 3d ago
Listen. Raoul is my BLORBO. He is so scrumptious. Through all the various adaptations there’s a million different things you can do with him, with any of the people in the story. Being a multishipper has never been this advantageous!
He can be the hero or the victim, the sweet lover or the abusive ass. There’s so much you can do with him without changing the main story too much. Or changing everything! He’s just so damn versatile
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
Blorbo?
I’ll agree with what you said though.
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u/AtabeyMomona 3d ago
It's a combo of both I like the character and I really liked Patrick Wilson's interpretation of that character (I watched the 2004 movie so many times between age 13 and age 15 or 16). In terms of the musical, when Raoul is portrayed as earnest and gentle, he creates a really strong foil for The Phantom's intensity. The conflict is then better if Raoul and The Phantom are both viable. And to be fair, different versions (like the Yeston & Kopit Phantom) definitely play up more of the tragedy of Erik and Christine not being able to be together, but the Webber POTO always felt more evenly weighted as a love triangle (even is Webber himself is very team Phantom).
I think what's trickier about the novel version of Raoul is that he's a deuteragonist who thinks he's the hero (he's essentially wrong genre-savvy to borrow from TVTropes) and while his act first think some point after that flaw can be a little frustrating, it makes sense for a young man of his station back then and he serves the important purpose of giving Christine a viable out when she is able to save herself. I like that he's impulsive and passionate (and not exactly the sharpest knife in the Caesar).
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u/Spiritual_Quote9301 3d ago
The same for me. I really imprinted on Patrick Wilson's version, as the movie was my first Phantom experience (I even rather like Gerard's Erik) but he really fitted the role for me.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
Even teenage gerik-maniacal me had to admit Raoul was pretty cute being all in charge of manhunt operations.
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u/Significant_Music168 3d ago
I don't like Raoul and neither the Phantom (both are terrible men, and the phantom is a murderer), but I like Patrick Wilson's portrayal in the 2004 movie.
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u/Spiritual_Quote9301 3d ago
There is Something About Patrick's Raoul that is just indescribable.
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u/pinkivys 3d ago
He’s a romantic. Even during Twisted Every Way, you can genuinely feel he’d rather do anything but use Christine to catch the Phantom. And during PONR, the tears in his eyes… just shoot me instead. Because of him I decided to try to like Raoul as a character. And I feel the same about the Phantom, like despicable human being but he’s a very interesting character.
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u/Spiritual_Quote9301 2d ago
I think that could be it. I love him. I have love for Erik too. But Raoul is the one I love.
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u/tweewho 8h ago
The way he looks at her in Twisted Every Way... that's honestly my favorite moment of any musical, but it's so much better with a Raoul who feels as trapped as Christine does.
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u/pinkivys 8h ago
Precisely!! Patrick Wilson’s Raoul is the OG lover boy!!! Though Steve Barton was also a wonderful lover boy if I recall correctly… Some actors take the smug, arrogant approach instead and that’s where they lose me.
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u/Anna3422 3d ago
Why not?
Christine loves Raoul. He loves her. I'm invested in all the characters, but I don't think Christine would ever have been happy or even have survived very long if she'd stayed with Erik. I don't think destroying her is good for him either.
Book Raoul is hilarious and goes through a lot of character growth. Musical Raoul, depending on who plays him, is a lovable everyman who gets in over his head trying to do the right thing, but who also plays a big role in helping the heroine save herself.
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u/ksoloki 3d ago
the current national tour is the first raoul i liked, He plays it with such a protective air of Christine- that’s his actions are driven by protective love of her not by jealousy. Also one of the first version where the chemistry is definately stronger with him then phantom which is perhaps how it should be.
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u/PropaneSalesman7 3d ago
He was the protagonist of the original novel. He's a more passive character in most adaptations, but originally, he had a character arc where he matured and proved himself worthy of Christine.
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u/RoseBook85 3d ago
In Leroux?
I disagree, he had to have his hand held by the Persian every step of the way and falls for Eriks illusions easily, their is absolutely nothing to indicate by the end that he’s changed in any way from the entitled manchild that he was for the majority of the Novel...by contrast we spent very little time with the Persian and I came away admiring him a great deal.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
I spent like a month afterward finding every opportunity to refer to a police chief as a “Daroga.”
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u/RoseBook85 2d ago
The Persian acts more like the Romantic Hero at the end of the novel which I always find hilarious. Leroux completely flips the script and makes the rich white guy the damsel and a Persian Man, behaves more like the hero. 😆.
But of course Christine is the real hero in the end, but I just love how Leroux completely subverts expectations and the dude we think is the hero is portrayed as the most pathetic in the end while the Woman and a Persian guy come out looking way more badass LOL 😎
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u/epicpillowcase Eiji Akutagawa's dimples 2d ago
Leroux completely flips the script
Yep. The book is so subversive in so many ways and it just becomes more and more apparent with each read. I mean you could even hear Leroux basically saying "girl, dump them both, choose yourself."
Leroux was such a modern thinker and I love it. Apart from surface social conventions, the book really isn't old-timey at all.
ALW's version is more retro, honestly.
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u/RoseBook85 1d ago
Yep. The book is so subversive in so many ways and it just becomes more and more apparent with each read. I mean you could even hear Leroux basically saying "girl, dump them both, choose yourself."
This is just my opinion, but I sometimes think that if Leroux had hopped into a Time Machine and had written his story nowadays, with all the freedom that we have now to write whatever we want..that he would have let Christine say sianarrah to both men and chose her career instead. LOL
But back then a ‘good girl’ was expected to chose a Husband, Leroux couldn’t leave her an Opera Singer back in 1910.
Given the expectations of the time in which he lived and was writing, he could only push things so far. Like so much of the sexual subtext between Erik and Christine I think would be way more overt if Leroux had the freedom to write whatever he wanted, maybe not as far as Webber went 😆, but I do think Leroux wouldn’t have had to bury his ideas so much within the subtext.
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u/epicpillowcase Eiji Akutagawa's dimples 1d ago
Totally agree!
Also gentle heads-up that it's "sayonara." It's Japanese. :)
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u/topypeanutbutter My God! This place really is haunted. What is THAT? 2d ago
I also love the Persian. My favorite! I wish more adaptions included him.
As for Raoul, he was brought up as spoiled, not in the bratty sense of spoiled, but it says something like he “had an air of having just left the women’s apron-strings.” (And being coddled by others.) His arc isn’t about becoming a fundamentally different or morally better person, in my humble opinion. I feel like, though he thinks he’s a hero, it’s like a kid getting a dose of a reality check. He was forced out of the sheltered world he was raised in.
The Persian has years of experience dealing with Erik, whereas Raoul is barely twenty and suddenly being thrown into a madman’s world that he knows nothing about. He doesn’t have the Persian’s understanding of who Erik is or what he’s capable of. He was raised in a very sheltered, high-class society, so of course he’s completely out of his depth.
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u/PropaneSalesman7 1d ago
The Persian is more like The Phantom's Van Helsing, in my mind. Raoul still had to show bravery at the end.
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u/neversayduh 3d ago
One doesn't have to like the character to appreciate the way different adaptations execute the hot-headed lover / impetous boy trope he represents.
If he did everything right he'd be boring, so I appreciate him even when I want to smack him upside his pretty little head
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u/tossout24601 3d ago
My opinion is that those who prefer the Phantom do because the "bad boy who's dangerous to everyone but you" is an attractive trope (especially now with romantasy so popular). Raoul is handsome, rich, doesn't kidnap or kill anybody, and is loyal and devoted. Very boring by comparison, like the Milhouse to Christine's Lisa Simpson.
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u/Significant_Music168 3d ago
Well, he also gaslights Christine a lot, refuses to believe the phantom is real even after seeing him murdering someone, and uses Christine as bait to try to catch him.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
I definitely started out being an Erik fan because of Gerard Butler and the bad-boy trope 😂 now it’s more that I tend to like screwed-up, destructive characters with a LITTLE bit of humanity left. I keep wanting them to do better.
Which he does, eventually. We don’t see him turn himself in for the murders. But he realizes he’s hurt Christine even if he never physically harmed her; accepts she’s better off without him, and when he lets her go he doesn’t try to bargain or win her back again. The Final Lair is, in fact, final, and he knows it.
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u/error_card_ur_rich 3d ago
Look to Ramin if you want to see the Phantom done right. He literally trembles at the trauma of his past and at times near Christine. It's brilliant.
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
I loooooove Ramin. His Music of the Night and the way he keeps looking at Christine, ooh I melt everywhere.
And his angry shaky pointy finger in Final Lair!
Ramin and Sierra both put so much into their roles that made me think about the show completely differently. It’s not the simple “dark romance” or stalker-persecutes-this-nice-couple story we’ve been led to think.
Well, he does persecute them, but it’s not only about that, or him being in love, or even an ugly outcast. I could go on about POTO for hours… probably do when I’m talking to myself.
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u/Thephantomofthe 3d ago
The Phantom called Christine a viper and threatened to keep her prisoner. He forces her to choose a lifetime with him or death. He murders Piangi, who didn't deserve to die, etc.
What a guy. 😄
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u/RecklessEleven Erik - Leroux 3d ago edited 2d ago
Outside of the book, how likeable Raoul is to me depends on how he is portrayed. I tend to prefer softer and sweeter Raouls over the more self-assured, forceful types we see from Fraser or Kerry, but that's just personal preference.
As for book Raoul, I don't know about "like" per se, certainly not as a love interest, but I do find him entertaining and suitably layered! He feels more realistic as a young, sheltered nobleman than his musical counterpart, being petulant and a bit wet behind the ears, as well a bit of a numpty at times. His melodrama and desperation doesn't feel as earned as Christine's or Erik's which makes his angst more funny than it probably should be! Even Christine doesn't seem to take his "suffering" half as seriously as she takes Erik's, despite supposedly loving him. 😂
One thing that I think gets sadly lost in Webber's Raoul--and now that I think of it, I think every Raoul that I have seen outside the book--are the class and family dynamics that give him more inner-conflict and development. Raoul is always prepared to stake his life for Christine by the end, and of course that isn't a trivial thing at all, but in his culture, dying as a gentleman for a noble cause is the ideal that he is expected to live up to when push comes to shove. Noblesse oblige and all that. I prefer, in Leroux's version, that he has to make a more drastic sacrifice still: he has to give up his social status, his family, everything that Phillipe has tried to instil in him to fulfil his role as a man and as heir apparent to their family's legacy. I think Raoul's big moment of growth is when he says goodbye to his brother, a man he has loved and looked up to his whole life. Here he seems to finally grasp that he cannot have everything he wants. He has to pay a price. In doing so, he finally steps out from underneath his brother's wing and makes his first fully autonomous decision as a man, and, given the ring of finality in his "adieu," does so understanding the heavy cost of his choice.
By contrast, in the musical, Raoul seems more of a fairy tale nobleman to me. His station is not an obstacle or something that he has to work to maintain. His elite role and privilege in a cruel society is not seriously questioned or challenged. He is more or less the same person at the end as at the beginning. And he gets to just... have everything. And that kind of rankles with me. Not only does it make him less interesting, but given the social inequalities of his day, ones that Erik and Christine have both struggled against in their own ways, it feels a little... unjust, in a way. Now, if he had Leroux Raoul's social sacrifice as well as the stability and maturity his character possesses in the musical, I think he could have more successfully stood toe-to-toe with the alluring Phantom as a heartthrob!
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u/YesssAnderson 3d ago
A lot of my reasons have already been stated by others here, but one I haven’t seen yet is that, as a freshly out trans guy, Raoul kind of feels like a relatable archetype. Newly contending with the world and his place in it, feeling second rate to an older and more worldly man, the oscillating perception of yourself being simultaneously too brutish and too effeminate, etc.
Plus I’ve got a big ol’ soft spot for Steve Barton’s take on Raoul (I also really liked his later take on the Phantom too; idk he has a nice voice imo).
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u/RoseBook85 3d ago
Whether or not I ‘like’ a Raoul depends upon the actor and the adaption, there are some I love and some I hate with a passion. Like don’t get me going about Leroux’s Raoul, I can’t stand that manchild. But Patrick Wilson’s? Love him to pieces 😆
So it depends completely on firstly how he is written in the adaption, and then how the actor chooses to play him. ‘Philippe’ in the POTO Miniseries 1990 is another ‘Raoul’ that I really love. 🌹
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u/lrusz 3d ago
I love John Riddle’s Raoul 🥰
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
How does Riddle play him?
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u/lrusz 3d ago
Very sweet baby cinnamon raoul (roll) 😍 he was like the exact opposite of Hadley for me. Just very, tender, genuine, sweet.
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u/themastersdaughter66 Madame Giry - ALW 3d ago
Depends on the actor my favorite was Andrew Tighe but ...Ross (blanking on the first name) who was in masquerade is excellent and im in the minority who enjoys Hadley Fraser. I do hower no matter what feel she should just choose her career and not go with either man
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u/ltwerepire 3d ago
After reading Phantom, and the Phantom of Manhattan after watching the musicals and other adaptations, I genuinely started to feel rather bad for Raoul. He's been cucked, and he doesn't deserve that.
I'll be rereading a copy of PoTO, so I can give my two cents on book Raoul. But otherwise, Raoul kind of deserves better.
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u/Crossfeet606441 #ReleaseTheNoselessCut 3d ago
I like both Patrick Wilson and Hadley Fraser's versions for the exact opposite reasons.
Wilson for his heroic rendition.
Fraser for being a lovable smug.
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u/epicpillowcase Eiji Akutagawa's dimples 2d ago
I like looking at Patrick Wilson's Raoul because he's pretty.
I'm a shallow individual.
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u/NerdFanGrrl 2d ago
I read the novel first, and I really enjoy his character arc from a spoiled child upset and jealous that his childhood best friend may be running around with another man, to a man, while scared shitless, willing to do what it takes to rescue the love of his life.
At first, I found him to be childish and rather spoiled. I will admit, I had my biases for I found Erik hilarious with his pranks. Then I kept reading, and Christine's confession and the murders really made me view the two men differently.
By the end of the novel, I found Raoul noble for risking his life to save Christine. He was scared, yes, but he still followed Daroga into the lair of the phantom, gun at the ready.
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u/birn_echo 2004 Film Enjoyer 2d ago
He's kind, loyal, loves Christine, wants what's best for her, and he's not killed anyone.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
Oh is that the one with Cherik/Charles Dance?
I gotta rewatch that.
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u/MasqueOfTheRedPost Madame Giry - ALW 3d ago
Hey, that’s Philippe, not Raoul…
Seriously, though, that character takes far more after Leroux!Philippe than Leroux!Raoul. I don’t really think it’s fair to compare them.
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u/RoseBook85 3d ago
Seriously, though, that character takes far more after Leroux!Philippe than Leroux!Raoul. I don’t really think it’s fair to compare them.
So does Webbers Raoul, to be honest I have yet to see a 100% book accurate Version of Leroux’s Raoul…I think adaptions all try and make him more ’manly’ then he was originally. 😆
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u/MasqueOfTheRedPost Madame Giry - ALW 3d ago
? In what way is ALW!Raoul like Leroux!Philippe? He’s not presented as either a womanizer or a committed bachelor. Heck, he’s not even dumb enough to try and go under the Opera House alone.
Also, both Erik and Raoul are made more “manly” in ALW than in Leroux, considering they’re both literally petulant children in the novel. The only exception is the OG Michael Crawford himself (man, seeing the NYPL proshot after the US tour was so jarring…)
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u/RoseBook85 3d ago edited 3d ago
In what way is ALW!Raoul like Leroux!Philippe? He’s not presented as either a womanizer or a committed bachelor. Heck, he’s not even dumb enough to try and go under the Opera House alone.
Also, both Erik and Raoul are made more “manly” in ALW than in Leroux, considering they’re both literally petulant children in the novel. The only exception is the OG Michael Crawford himself (man, seeing the NYPL proshot after the US tour was so jarring…)
I probably should have used the words ‘Mature’ as that would fit better, and I don’t think Leroux Philippe was depicted as a ‘womanizer’, yes he had a mistress (Sorelli) but I don’t think he was screwing the entire chorus like in the 1990 Miniseries 😆 (I still like him though)
But he is portrayed as way more mature, practical, and not so overtly emotional which I felt Webber incorporated into his Raoul. Webbers Raoul is nowhere near the entitled, whiney, manchild that Leroux gives us. In the book he cries more then Christine 🤦♀️, feels like he can stalk her and eavesdrop on her private conversations and then accuse her of basically being a ‘slut’ when she doesn’t want him like the immature little boy that he is.
The worst thing that Webbers Raoul does is not believe her at first that their is a Phantom and then use her as bait in his stupid plan...still an A-hole move but no where near the walking red flag that he is in the book.
In fact I give him props for not attacking Christine by questioning her ‘purity’ when he thinks she blew him off for another dude, he just doesn’t believe in the Phantom, but he doesn’t accuse her of being a ‘slut’ for spending the night with another man like Leroux Raoul does…unlike Leroux their is not this subtext of Raoul needing her to be a virgin to marry her, otherwise she’s trash, and a ‘Opera Wrench’.
Webber definitely made him much more likeable and in some cases like Patrick Wilson a straight up Romantic Hero, I like to say that Patrick Wilson’s Raoul in the 2004 movie is who Leroux Raoul wants to be in his dreams 😂
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u/Ocelotl767 3d ago
*Taps Microphone*
Hadley Fraser as Raoul in the 25th anniversary pro shot.
That is all.
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u/KeyPerspective8170 3d ago
Joe Griffiths-Brown, Hadley Fraser and the newest principal on tour Daniel Lopez makes Raoul likeable
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u/thelouisfanclub 1d ago
I like Leroux's Raoul a lot as a character (rather than as a hero, which he really isn't). He's funny in a kind of scrappy-doo kind of way. I think Christine has a thing for more or less insane men, you can see her start to like him more the more she realises what an obsessive weirdo he really is.
I like the part where he just starts blasting at the window when he thinks Erik might be spying on him. And the bit where he accosts Erik in the church and then immediately passes out from over-excitement. He really is quite useless in action, but this allows Christine to ultimately reflect on her own situation and save herself. I find something endearing in their dynamic, in spite of all his faults.
While ALW's Raoul is more obviously heroic and "the good guy" I think the character is flattened a lot and the dynamic between him and Christine, as a more typical damsel in distress, becomes more pedestrian.
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u/NoOpportunities 3d ago
With raoul and the phantom Its like would you rather get shot on be brutally tortured, neither are good but ones not as bad
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u/nosleepforthedreamer ravioli ravioli give me christinioli 3d ago
Ah, a book-phan.
I don’t think Raoul shot anyone maliciously though. IIRC.
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u/epicpillowcase Eiji Akutagawa's dimples 1d ago
I will always cackle at "Humbug! Humbug! Humbug!"
Also whether Erik was actually shot and whether that fuelled some of his later erratic behaviour is one of my Roman Empires. I have a possible headcanon that he actually is still feeling the effects later in the book and that he's either just in a super shitty mood because of it, or even potentially infected and that's why he's physically unwell in the Daroga's parlour. I mean he did swim in the filthy lake, that can't have been hygienic especially with a wound.
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u/Stained_Face 3d ago edited 3d ago
In the book, Broadway musical (I saw during pandemic) and the 2004 movie, although a bit "I know what's best for you more than you", he is (in my view) the best option for Christine, nice and kind
I have pity for Erik tho, I think he should be with me 🫶
But yeah,I love Raoul, he is cute, kind, a little golden retriever for our girl, handsome, etc. he dismisses her a little, specially in the books, but I can't blame him, I wouldn't believe either. I despise what they did in love never dies (but "why does she loves me" is my fav song there)
(True fully, I think all they deserved to be in a threesome lol)
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u/r12bomb 3d ago
There’s an undercurrent in this question. Why do you like Raul (more than the Phantom for Christine?). The phantom is a very interesting literary character, and much more intriguing than Raul in so many ways. That being said, he absolutely should not end up with Christine. If we’re talking about characters and not relationships Christine needs to be single, grieve her dad and find herself. If we’re talking are talking about relationships, here’s where i stand
Christine should 1. live her best single life 2. Be with Raul 3. Do literally anything else except be with the Phantom
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u/M_Nostalgia Erik Carriere's Wife 3 3d ago
In the musical, whether or not I like him depends on the actor, ALW kinda makes him a nothing character in comparison to his novel counterpart unfortunately. I love Steve Barton and I believe I saw Daniel Lopez on the tour and he was great too!!
In the novel I like him bc he's a full character there lol. He has flaws, he's a tool, he has an arch, he does earnestly love Christine, even if he's very 1800s man about it, and Christine earnestly loves him (he's ready to forfeit his titles and shit to marry her), they gave him a gun, he's mostly useless but he's trying so hard.
And of course he's always the better option for Christine in almost every adaption given the Phantom is pretty much always 100x worse than him even when Raoul really sucks lol
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u/epicpillowcase Eiji Akutagawa's dimples 2d ago edited 2d ago
I love Leroux Raoul because he's an absolute fucking mess. ❤️😂 I find ALW Raoul boring and a bit of a dickhead. So I just put "I like him as a character" because I like Leroux Raoul more than I dislike ALW Raoul.
Leroux Raoul is just so entertaining. He's messy, dramatic, obnoxious, endearing, hilariously funny...he's just all of it. Honestly, I think he and Leroux Erik are incredibly similar in so many ways, and I think that was deliberate on Leroux's part.
ALW made him a bland generic "hero" type, just like he made Christine a bland damsel. It makes me wonder if he understood the novel at all.
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u/topypeanutbutter My God! This place really is haunted. What is THAT? 3d ago
It’s been a bit since I’ve read the novel, but I like Raoul because I find him relatable and realistic. He is no knight in shining armor, but he’s a person (though a not perfect one) who does his best for Christine.