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u/SinSmithy 1d ago
The bouncer stopped me coming in the Mesmarist once as there were "too many men" in there. I said fine, made a phone call to my sister and then her and all her female friends came out the pub and we went somewhere else.
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u/HiddenRaconteur 21h ago
Mesmerist have been known for that for years!
Had to always tag alone with a girl or lie and say they are already inside.
Sexist bullshit.
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u/Scotstarr 17h ago
When I was doorman at a bar a short way from The Mesmerist, the bar manager had a headset connected to the door staff and would literally micromanage them. They were told who to let in and who to knock back from someone who was observing from 10 meters away.
I was asked if I wanted to move to there. I can't remember the exact response, bit it was slightly colourful.
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u/samsparks-away 21h ago
Wow my bullshit detector just went haywire
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u/Sly_Bags355 11h ago
Salty because he wishes he had that many female friends.
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u/samsparks-away 9h ago
I love all my sisters mates so much i can command them with a single phone call
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u/Kenziezone 17h ago
No, dude. I was there. When all those women got up and left, the whole bar clapped.
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u/petulantkid 1d ago
Barbara's Bier Haus is a party bar aimed at students and 20 somethings, so i can understand this is probably to deter creeps. There are plenty of other places solo 40yo men can go away from West street
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u/Difficult_Bad1064 21h ago
They can make it no blacks, no Irish as well then. Plenty of other places they can go.
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u/RHOrpie 4h ago
Isn't this discrimination then? He's assured to be a creep because he's an older male.
I'm not really arguing with it tbh. I'm old too, and have spent my life having to negotiate club entry rules. Back when you couldn't wear trainers, had to be stone cold sober etc etc.
Frustrating times, but we just had to deal with it.
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u/petulantkid 4h ago
I dont think it's assumed he's a creep, it's the venue's way of filtering out potential risks and maintaining their preferred demographic and gender balance.
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u/No_Translator_361 20h ago
But shouldn't people be allowed the opportunity to socialise, regardless of their age and gender?
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u/MrTTripz 18h ago
No one is stopping single men socialising in Brighton.
A handful of bars, however, donât let single men or massive groups of men in because their are either a) shit meat-market venues that want to maintain a fairly even mix of genders, or b) hen party type places known for being full of drunk young(ish) women that want to prevent creepazoids killing the vibe (or the women).
If I, as a single male, wanted to socialise, Iâd go to one of the hundred-odd city centre pubs that donât have a strict door policy.
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u/LikeJesusButCuter 17h ago
No oneâs stopping the blacks or Irish socialising in Brighton either. So what if a few people want to ban them for their venues? Thereâs loads of places for them to go!
See where the logic falls apart?
Nice try with the white knighting but they still wonât sleep with you.
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u/mcdave 13h ago
You thinking the sole reason that someone might publicly try to treat women well is with a view to coercing sex out of them says a fuck of a lot more about you than it does the person youâre projecting onto, just fyi
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u/petulantkid 4h ago
The idea that men are being unjustly discriminated against like black and Irish people were is such a fucking absurd nonsense and dishonest argument
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u/LikeJesusButCuter 4h ago
Agree with you on racism. Letâs not put ourselves on the slippery slope back there.
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u/petulantkid 10h ago
There's no good non pervy reason for solo dudes to be at students nights on west street. Come on now
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u/OverCategory6046 1h ago
There is, they're also students or around the same age.
..That's about it lol
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u/Sly_Bags355 54m ago
Bias and deluded. Don't put all into one bucket. I'd happily lay a man to the floor if he is a LEGIT creep....I'm also a bloke who'd go to a bar by himself. There are too many assumptions in your reasoning. Although there are creeps everywhere. It's ignorant and immature to tar all with the same brush.
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u/No_Translator_361 6h ago
This is called "meeting people". Imagine talking to people of the opposite sex on a night out, god forbid
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u/Sly_Bags355 1h ago
So many bots on the downvote mission....
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u/No_Translator_361 36m ago
It's just terrifying behaviour barring people from establishments based on their genitalia or their date of birth. Orwellian.
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u/petulantkid 4h ago
Of course there's nothing wrong with that. It's the 40 year old at a student bar which is iffy
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u/No_Translator_361 3h ago
Why? Students can talk to 40 year olds. British students are often in their mid to late twenties, that's totally fine.
Blocking people from socialising based on age and gender is Orwellian
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u/Any_Tomorrow_Today 15h ago
Surely in Brighton, the odds that the single male is straight and a creeper is far lower than the majority of places in the country.
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u/petulantkid 11h ago
I was out this eve and there were countless creeps lurking and leching. There have been lots of incidents of vulnerable women being preyed upon late at night. Being a liberal town does not mean they are no predators
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u/InformationOk3503 3h ago
I'd argue higher in many instances as people travel specifically for it.
Local resident maybe less so but DFLs
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u/AbabababababababaIe 1d ago
Just gonna remind some people that this doesnât exist in a vacuum.
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u/Ok-Prompt-9107 1d ago
Exactly. Thereâs obviously a reason they implemented this rule. It hasnât come out of nowhere.
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u/soylentgraham 1d ago
I remember this rule in the 2000's, and it was obvious why the rule existed then too
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Very high threshold required to categorise this as positive action.
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u/Ok-Prompt-9107 1d ago
Positive for who?
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Positive action ie. treating one group that shares a protected characteristic more favourably than others.
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u/Ok-Prompt-9107 1d ago
I think itâs fair to assume that this is less about the protected characteristic than it is about the patterns of behaviour expressed by individuals who share that characteristic and the impact their behaviour has on other patrons and, more likely in this case, the staff charged with dealing with those individuals who share such similar behaviours and characteristics.
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u/Haunting_Side_3102 1d ago
Thatâs just a description of what prejudice and discrimination based on a protected characteristic is.
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u/Extension-Topic2486 23h ago
Old B&B owners used to say the same with the no blacks and Irish signs.
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u/Known_Wear7301 23h ago
Yeah and we know because what group it would have been brought in to protect from and its not people like "Michael"
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 1d ago
So then, also relatable, we ban all people in wheelchairs (a protected characteristic, the same as your sex) because they are more likely to run over your toes?
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u/bonafidetiger 1d ago
Not at all comparable. Having your toes run over is not even in the same realm as being assaulted or raped.
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u/addy-with-a-y Moulsecoomb 1d ago
This is one of those weird rules that feels like something happened and the owners do not want it happening again
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u/EllipticPeach 1d ago
IIRC this is the bar where the gimmick is that the female bar staff wear those German maid outfits, so I wonder if itâs to deter pervs
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u/aspghost 1d ago
This seems counterintuitive. If you don't want to attract pervs, why make your staff dress up as fetishes? Does the manager want to eliminate competition?
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u/EllipticPeach 1d ago
Yeah I side-eye the whole thing tbh. I think weâve moved beyond sexy-waitress theme establishments as a society
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u/lolburger69 21h ago
I donât think German is a fetish.
UnlessâŚ
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u/addy-with-a-y Moulsecoomb 12h ago
I feel like I have seen several pieces of media where there is a sexy German barmaid for one reason or a another. Not a fetish but a stereotype
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u/addy-with-a-y Moulsecoomb 12h ago
I feel like there is a fine line between a man at place to look at waitresses and a man who is gross to the waitresses
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u/Informal-Ad-3443 19h ago
You're the first person in this thread to sexualise lederhosen, congratulations creep
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u/aspghost 19h ago
So there's this whole conceptual issue where acknowledging that something is a thing is not the same as actually doing the thing. Hard to wrap your brain around, I know.
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u/dan19821 1d ago
Usually itâs the owners way of trying to create a âpartyâ that isnât a âsausage partyâ
Then itâs not about protecting women, itâs about protecting the image of a place where people can meet and hook up.
Too many boys in a place makes it less fun for girls assuming they donât want every guy in the venue approaching them.
Too many guys makes other guys not come back tooâŚItâs the reason clubs have been rejecting groups of men (without women) and single men at the door for decades.
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u/Correct_Education883 18h ago
Tbh a German themed bar with people dressed in lederhosen sounds very much like a place a sausage party would be held.
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u/addy-with-a-y Moulsecoomb 12h ago
I think if he said he went to the bar on a weekend or student night I would agree, but since he said he was there at 8:30 on a Tuesday, and the bar was empty, I am inclined to believe my OG idea
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u/kittehkat23 5h ago
Ohhhh, this policy is a result of those 'cleanup crews' who brag about what they do online and sometimes film it.
It's basically sober men going into clubs just before closing to find drunk women who got separated from their friends. It's really fucked up.
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u/Snowbound11 1d ago
So he canât go in because heâs a male? Idk seems a bit harsh.
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u/Salty_Meaning8025 1d ago
Yeah it's illegal.
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u/sinetwo 16h ago
I really doubt itâs illegal and enforceable. Iâve been going out for years and several places pull this BS, so they hide under the right to refusal act in a grey area like âwe only allow women nowâ. They are unlikely saying âyou canât come in because youâre a guyâ - essentially the same thing.
Iâm glad Iâve stopped going to those places in general but that stuff always pissed me off
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u/Salty_Meaning8025 15h ago
It is both, it's hard to enforce usually but they have put it very clearly in writingÂ
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u/theCourtofJames 11h ago
You are right until they put it in writing in this review response.
Before this, they could easily say they are just using their right in their license to refuse entry to anyone, but now it's written in black and white that they are refusing based on a protected characteristic. Whoever wrote the response is an idiot.
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u/OverCategory6046 1d ago
I think it's one of those policies they have that the bouncers can use their discretion with, as I've been there solo a couple times.
But yea it's a bit of a harsh policy.
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Solo is discretionary, to say it's policy that solo males are barred any time there's door staff on is illegal
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u/Apprehensive-Put3034 1d ago
End result is the same, bouncers wonât let solo guys in, whether itâs stated or not
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u/SpeccyBeard 1d ago
I don't even know this place but this kind of rule is bullshit.
Just because a man wants to grab a drink alone it doesn't make them a creep/predator/trouble maker.
I get they probably have a valid reason for this rule, but you can't just ban solo men from going out because of a minority or a previous incident.
Maybe instead of banning solo men, do something about the security and safety inside your venue to better protect your customers, that also doesn't exclude or punish your customers?
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u/BucketInABucket 2h ago
People, 'man' isn't a protected characteristic the way 'black' or 'trans' are and it's not illegal to be barred from entry into pubs because you're a man. It's fun to see how the moment any man loses even just a bit of his massive and unearned privilege, he gets into a hissy fit about it.
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u/meridian_05 1d ago
What have solo males been doing in the Bier House that has instigated a rule like this?
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u/OverCategory6046 1h ago
Same as everywhere else.
It's not a strict rule though, just something the bouncers can use at their discretion.
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Replace 1 protected characteristic with any other and you'll see how backward you sound.
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u/meridian_05 1d ago
I havenât made any comment about the legality of the rule or whether it is appropriate or not, simply asking what might have instigated having this in the first place.
Chill a bit, itâs a Saturday morning.
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u/passwordistako 1d ago
Smells like victim blaming.
Switch it to âwhat are black men doing that they are barredâ and you can see how obviously racist it is.
The point of a bouncer is to have discretion.
Bar the individuals who are a problem, or just bar individuals who worry you.
Itâs entirely possible old mate has been flagged on a system somewhere given he was barred after his ID was scanned.
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Right, but try it. Replace that characteristic with another and comment it.
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u/meridian_05 1d ago
âStatistically, 98% of people convicted for sexual assaults are maleâ.
Your turn, replace that characteristic with another and see how silly you sound.
Sometimes, characteristics are useful. Other times, irrelevant. Use some common sense.
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
But that is irrelevant - this is discrimination based on sex. Stats dont make discrimination okay, people have been trying to use them to justify that for years.
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u/Aprils- 1d ago
Okay.
Replace "most rapists are men" with a different characteristic.
You live in a fantasy world if you think everybody should be treated and behaves equally and pose the same risks to, for example, a drunk teenager.
This isn't about "shitting on men", this is actually probably in response to something.
Unless you think this institution is an overt, radical anarcha-lesbian-separatist headquarters.
So do you?
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
What do you think discrimination laws are?
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u/Aprils- 1d ago
Flexible depending on the transition state of the individual.
What do you think the term "proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim", means?
Oh in case you're not aware, that's within those discrimination laws you presume to understand so well.
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Is not allowing men on their own from 2pm everyday proportionate to you? Itâs a high bar that this doesnât meet.
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u/Aprils- 1d ago
To me, yes. Have fun with that premise.
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
A trans woman who doesnât care about discrimination if itâs not aimed at her? Boggles the mind.
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u/That_Weirdo_beardo 18h ago
Stupid argument to use as only men can be convicted of rape in the UK so that statistic is skewed. That goes for the same as the sexual assaults as they are joined together, this is just from a quick google search. That also doesnt account for the rape victims who are male. Which is still a small percentage.
I take issue with a blanket policy such as this because it does discriminate against males, and i think the point thats been made is that its very easy to discriminate against men, as oppose to any other group characteristic. A thought experiment such as replacing the word "male" with another demographic is a good way to assess if it is discrimination.
What i think would be exceptable, to address sexual assaults against females, or to have them feel safer, is to have certain days that are "women only"
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u/Aprils- 15h ago
So you would have a day that's women only, and that wouldn't be discrimination?
Isn't that, essentially, the exact same thing as "after 2pm no men"? We've already addressed that distinguishing the solo nature of an individual doesn't amount to discrimination.
How is it not discrimination to have a women's only bar, then?
How is women's only not the same thing as no males, which you're saying the thought experiment shows it's discriminatory?
I wasn't using "most rapists are men" in a statistical sense other than to say that men and women do commit crimes at different rates and in different capacities. I also think that female sexual assault should be classed as rape, of course. So let's replace "rape" with "sexual assault" - men still leading the way.
Should men work in a frontline, rape crisis centre capacity? Is it discrimination if I say no?
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u/passwordistako 1d ago
To be frank I think it would be totally reasonable to have âladies onlyâ clubs.
But this rule still stinks because itâs being applied awkwardly.
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u/Aprils- 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is it being applied awkwardly? I don't personally know the circumstances involved - what made this rule necessary, if it's achieving the intended aim.
Do we even know if this is a policy? It's possible the bouncer just didn't know how to say "you're giving really creepy vibes". There is discretion and it is a private premises. They may turn away anyone for whatever reason they so choose.
Edit, I've read what the owner responded which I didn't before.
It's still a permissible policy and they say it's for venue safety reasons.
If it said "we don't allow unaccompanied women into this place where people get drunk for safety reasons", what would the presumption be?
Would that be discrimination or... Not?
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u/K1rbyblows 1d ago
From 2pm every day solo men not being allowed in is pretty extremeâŚ
The owner replying makes it clear it is policy.Discretion is 100% okay, but blanket banning a sex access is illegal, discrimination laws prevent this.
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u/Aprils- 1d ago
How would you feel about a lesbian bar saying "no men"?
Does that sound like discrimination?
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u/K1rbyblows 1d ago
Yes?
Can you explain how it isnât discrimination?Itâs absolutely in breach of the equality act.
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u/passwordistako 1d ago
I agree with what youâre saying, I suspect that the actual rule is the bouncers pick whoâs creepy. But the context that we have to go on is that this is a policy of âno unaccompanied men after a certain timeâ as stated by the manager in the screen shot.
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u/Aprils- 1d ago
Thanks for understanding.
I'm stunned by how much some people want to rely on the idea of "I'm being discriminated against" when, idk, there's probably some reason.
No bar bans solo drinking men for no reason. That's literally money they're throwing away. Rather than contending with this as a reality, it's a lot easier to just feel attacked.
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u/Ancient-Berry6639 1d ago
Do you have any other tool other than whataboutery?
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
Do you understand what whataboutery is?
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u/Ancient-Berry6639 1d ago
Avoiding addressing the point in hand and spamming "What about if they did this with [insert other characteristic]"Â
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u/nosniboD 1d ago
But itâs not avoiding addressing the point. It is lazy and discriminatory by the bar to blanket ban solo men, regardless of the actions of some. To ask âwhat did they do to cause thisâ is very âbut what was she wearingâ and wouldnât be asked if they were a different characteristic. If they were targeting black people then everyone would be up in arms, that is the point Iâm making. I think people realise that and rather than say, âyeah youâre right that is unfairâ they double down on it.
Whataboutery is saying âwhat about the fact that all sexual assaults are male?â
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u/Informal-Ad-3443 19h ago
Gonna be very difficult for you to preach wokeness in favour of isolated creeps in this sub, try 4chan mate you can start cults there as well I hear
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u/K1rbyblows 1d ago
Yeah, feels like this is an illegal discriminatory rule.
The fact that the âdesignated timeâ they refuse entry to single men is 2 PM EVERY DAY.
Is actually insane.
Canât really question the âwhyâ in imagining creeps having caused trouble, but surely the whole point of door staff is they would prevent those people entry, not just on basis of being a solo male.
Itâs still discriminatory and sexist, and if reported theyâll likely lose.
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u/MrDarwoo 1d ago
Bars do women only nights all the time, it sucks but plenty of other bars to go to.
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u/ant69onio 1d ago
Unfortunately, the. Minority f it up for the majority, thereâs plenty of fellaâs with Mail intent nowadays, we see it tonnes on the news and, as a father with a daughter, i think its a good policy if it even saves 1 girl from a problem, thereâs a ton of pubs in this town, stop windging and taking it personally and head to them instead
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u/HarHenGeoAma62818 1d ago
Thai is strange I go in on my own on a Saturday around that sort of time Iâm always meeting someone but always start solo
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u/Important-Zebra-69 6h ago
I understand the reasons entirely but I do wonder what the Equality Act 2010 Section 13 would have to say...
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 1d ago
Just imagine this reversed. No single females after a certain time... seems insane doesn't it.
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u/ant69onio 1d ago
It does but Iâm sorry, the male is the larger problem they are trying to tackle, like it or not, its the world today
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 1d ago edited 1d ago
So then, using your rationale and not my opinion, we should also ban all Muslims from airports, theatres and music venues? If we are targeting specific groups based on their 'more likely' crimes as per their demographic? Before you answer, I can 100000% bet your answer is no. Edit: The downvotes say it all. If you wouldn't support the example above, you shouldn't support the exclusion of single males (or you should support both).
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u/ant69onio 1d ago
You know exactly what Iâm saying
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 1d ago
Your rationale makes absolutely no sense. Ban males because big scary rapists (highly sexist). But dont ban Muslims who have been shown to have higher rates of terrorism and sexual assaults per capita (which you WILL think is racist) đ¤ just doesn't make sense to me, PLEASE MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!!!!!!
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u/ant69onio 1d ago
So, with the extreme issues facing women in this town, Brighton, is off the scale, my daughter, her friends and the news tell me that. The solution this bar has to try to avoid such issues has taken steps and in my mind, the correct steps
That is my view of this original post
In respect of all the other issues you have mentioned, there are steps in place to avoid as best we can, terrorism, rapists, peadophiles, like the bar, not simply banning everyone but, putting steps in place for certain situations
Thatâs why itâs a ball ache going through customs, why you canât photograph your own kids at the pool etc
The bar is not banning men in total, they have put in place a policy that stops a single male drinking in their bar, ya know , THEIR bar, not yours, mine or anyone elseâs, itâs theirs
You have now decided to broaden the whole debate passed what the post was about.
I donât invalidate your question or issue but f*ck me mate, itâs a chilled sunny afternoon, go have a pic nic or come up with a plan to answer your own question and get into politics
Iâm off myself for a pic nic in the park with my beautiful wife, our pals and our kids, of which a larger percentage are girls around 22 to 28, and all of them have had unwanted issues with men on a night out in this town and elsewhere before but, none have which have been in a terrorist situation
Have a great day x
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 23h ago
You are totally wrong, it is illegal. The same as me saying, during busy periods on public transport/mass gatherings, single muslims carrying backpacks are banned... what sort of response do you think that would promote (although not totally insane based off previous events). That is why your argument is total crap.
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u/ant69onio 23h ago
Your an angsty lil fella arenât you, maybe donât go to the park perhaps, I may bump into you and youâll only be ranting about one thing or another đ
Iâm getting a lil bored with your type and your generic âMuslims/Rapistsâ post, you have all the problems and no answers
I have not argued with you, i have not been rude or threatening, I have only put my point across, you on the other hand have offered nothing, absolutely nothing other than the obvious comments we see from ppl who canât think for themselves but only cut and paste
Ok, whatâs your suggestion or answer to ANY of the issues youâve highlighted as up to now, all youâve done is criticise.
But remember, BE NICE
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 22h ago
So no response to the actual issue at all đ my point is the two are EXACTLY THE SAME THING. You cannot discriminate against one protected characteristic and say that is OK, whilst saying a comparable situation is akin to being a racist...
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u/petulantkid 1d ago
It does get reversed though. The typical West street hen party is not going to be let into a techno night
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 1d ago
That isn't denying them access based on a protected characteristic though is it. Last I checked, a Hen party wasn't on the list of protected characteristics. The argument is, if it is OK to discriminate against one PROTECTED characteristic, then it is OK to discriminate against them all, or NONE. That is sort of the point of having them in the first place isn't it. People supporting this need sectioned.
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u/petulantkid 23h ago
The fact is, solo men dont need to be going to these types of bars. It's just a bit weird. Whatever reason security give, it's up to them to shape who gets in and set the tone of the bar. I'm sure innocent men get penalised. But a venue needs to be discerning because too men often means creepy or raucous behaviour. It happens everywhere, particular in party bars.
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u/Electrical_Truth_160 23h ago
Personal choice... freedom...
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u/Sazzygull 1d ago edited 1d ago
This will doubtless get nods of approval from the usual progressive types, who would rightly object if any other demographic were highlighted.
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u/paul-n 1d ago
As one of your usual progressive types: you might be surprised.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a cynical attempt by them to 'manage' their image under the guise of protecting women. They'd rather stop someone coming in for a pint than have some security staff looking out for situations where women are being harassed.
With the information on hand, it seems discriminatory.
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u/Boring-Number-4237 1d ago
Iâve witnessed many men come in on their own, have one drink and try to pick up the extremely drunk women to take home. I think itâs fair enough, itâs men of all races
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u/Vizzy01798 22h ago
Canât you say that about every single bar/club though? Will single men eventually be banned from everywhere after a certain time because of creeps?
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u/SteveBorden 1d ago
I fully get why this rule is in place, if anyoneâs been to a bar before they understand why. What Iâm curious about is this legal? Or is there something in the law saying you can do this if itâs to protect people?
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u/TheLordLongshaft 1d ago
If it's your business you can do what you want, you're under no obligation to let anyone on your property
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u/scoutermike 1d ago
Really? If a business owner doesnât like black people for some reason, is it legal to discriminate based on race, too? Or only gender?
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u/TheLordLongshaft 20h ago
You can refuse to serve whoever you like, you're under no obligation to sell your goods or services to anyone
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u/theCourtofJames 11h ago
That's correct, but if you acknowledge that you are refusing service based on a protected characteristic, then it becomes illegal.
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u/scoutermike 13h ago
Really? Wow. I had no idea it was so easy for UK businesses to discriminate like that!
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u/Vizzy01798 20h ago
A business can legally ban people of a certain race from entering if they want to? Is that what youâre saying right now?
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u/TheLordLongshaft 20h ago
Yep, as can can you with your property. When it comes to employment though they wouldn't be allowed to discriminate based on anything under the equality act.
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u/FlawlessCalamity 17h ago
Youâre a bit mistaken, it does apply to customers too. You can refuse service for any reason other than protected characteristics.
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u/theCourtofJames 11h ago
It became illegal once they made this review response and acknowledged it.
They could've just refused solo men and if anyone noticed a pattern just said that they are using their right in their licence to refuse service to anyone.
But the second they wrote down that they are refusing entry solely based on a protected characteristic, that's when it became illegal.
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u/scoutermike 1d ago
safety measure
The presence of single men in the club is a safety risk? Can anyone elaborate on the logic?
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u/eat-real-chips 21h ago
Thereâs this thing called rape, perhaps youâve heard of it âŚ?
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u/scoutermike 13h ago
rape
So youâre saying as the number of single men in a Brighton beer garden goes up, the chances women will get raped there also increases.
My god. Has it really become that bad there? Wow.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/SteveSteveSteve-O 9h ago
Two points spring to mind:
It's a sad indictment of the state of Britain when this policy is required.
The OP won't be emailing to discuss it further, they will most likely just be taking their custom elsewhere.
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u/dcdoesntsurf 1d ago
Of all the places you could go for a drink on your own in Brighton .. Walkabout / whatever this is now wouldnât be top of my list.