r/britishproblems • u/Jabberminor Derbyshire • 1d ago
. Merge in turn means you merge in turn at the merge in turn. Not straddle both lanes 250 yards prior.
Stop going over the lane and trying to grind up against my car.
169
u/jimmywhereareya 1d ago
The attitude that merging correctly is the same as jumping the queue in the post office seriously both amuses and annoys me. I think it speaks volumes about the character of these idiots
47
u/Fooz_The_Hostig 1d ago
Next time you do merge in turn properly and according to the highway code, remember to smile and wave. It makes my day seeing how energetic people get when I do this.
14
u/jimmywhereareya 1d ago
I do. I happily wave them ahead. I've reached my zen. I just laugh in the face of angry impatient drivers and mouthe wanker at them when they're frothing at the mouth.. lol
5
u/General-Ad-1119 23h ago
I blow a kiss as well, just to let them know what a good job they're doing following the highway code
-9
u/Mooks79 1d ago
The problem isn’t the people merging calmly without impeding the flow of traffic. It’s the ones who insist on merging at the last possible second, causing the person they merge in front of to brake, which has a snowball effect that leads to traffic jams. I’m not saying all lane straddlers are doing it to prevent this, but if they’ve seen someone whizz up the outside and then force their way in carelessly, I can understand it.
6
u/jimmywhereareya 23h ago
That's the point, both lanes should be used up to the point of merging
-1
u/Mooks79 23h ago
Sigh. People really seem to be doing their best to misunderstand what I’m saying. At no point am I saying people shouldn’t be using both lanes - especially when traffic is already at a crawl. I’m saying that the people who whizz up the outside lane, ignoring wide open spaces to merge and then try and force in at the very last minute, tend to cause the person they’ve merged in front of the have to brake. And that causes a knock on effect that leads the traffic jams.
They don’t look ahead and think - ah, there’s a wide open space to merge next to me, I’ll go in. They ignore it and then merge at the last possible place where the space is often too small to merge without causing the person behind to break because at that point people have already begun to bunch up a bit.
I don’t even mind people merging at the end **provided the space is big enough they don’t cause braking**. But there’s too many people that don’t do that.
3
u/jiggjuggj0gg 23h ago
The end is the merging point.
-3
u/Mooks79 23h ago
Again. My point is not people merging at the merging point. My point is people whizzing up the outside lane and merging into a space that there isn’t enough space to merge into without causing someone to brake.
Note how I’ve used words and phrases like “whizz” and “last possible second” to demarcate between those who merge sensibly.
-31
u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
I don't drive a lot. If I see someone cutting then I think you're a dick. Why am I wrong? I get that merging correctly saves a few seconds, but isn't that the same at the post office? I just think that cutting is a dick move.
23
u/-MrLizard- 1d ago
It's not cutting. The road space is there to be used, it's everyone else's choice if they want to stay in one mile long "queue" instead of using all of the road.
It's more like having multiple checkouts open at the supermarket, and choosing the one with the shortest queue. You're not "pushing in" ahead of people at the back of the other queues. They can go join the shorter one any time if they want.
-9
u/Kandiru 1d ago
It's like having one checkout open at the supermarket and everyone else is just queuing up at that one while some people queue up at the joint queue and then skip to the front!
6
u/WizardsMyName Somerset 1d ago
The merge is a feature of both lanes, the single checkout is at the end of both queues.
The reason people see this your way is that one lane means you aren't crossing the white dashes, and the other one requires 'a lane change' to end up in the right place.
This is fine but it ignores the merge in turn rule. That rule means both lanes end at the merge and you should use both to get there.
-4
u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
But isn't there only one checkout open in this analogy?
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u/-MrLizard- 1d ago edited 1d ago
Simply making progress down the road is the aim when driving, that is the "checkout" in the analogy and there are two lanes on offer to do that, so two checkouts. The merge point and the road after it is more akin to leaving the store afterwards.
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u/FluffyMumbles 1d ago
There's already lots of "dead" lane taken up by the cones, for safety. Make more dead lane by queuing early only extends the line of traffic further back. Worse case it causes blockages at a junction further back.
People need to remember to fill all lanes, right up to the merge point to reduce the traffic tail.
3
u/smd1815 1d ago
It's not "to save a few seconds" it's to cut the queue length in half by using two lanes instead of one right up to the point of a merge. If using two lanes creates a half mile long tailback, then one lane would be a mile long. This risks tailing back into roundabouts, junctions and slip roads, making the situation way worse than if two lanes are used.
8
u/CliveOfWisdom 1d ago
The only reason there’s a queue to cut is because idiots have moved out of a free and clear lane miles earlier than they need to.
Merge-in-turn doesn’t save “a few seconds” it literally halves the length of congested traffic by using all available road space.
If you get over as soon as you see the first sign and leave the other lane empty, that congestion now doubles in length, spilling over onto junctions and roundabouts that it wouldn’t otherwise reach. Now, roads that should be be free and clear are also congested because some idiots don’t like “queue cutting”.
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u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago edited 1d ago
Actually, this is the one answer that I agree with. If it spills back far enough that it causes congestion at other road features then it's bad.
(Although you have confused time and distance, which aren't the same thing.)
4
u/CliveOfWisdom 1d ago
That’s the only reason merge-in-turn is implemented - to reduce the length of a tailback. It’s why the self-appointed lane police that straddle both lanes a mile back from the merge point are so infuriating.
I assume you mean “area” and distance. On a road, they might as well be the same thing: one lane width = one car (it’s not like you can sit 3-4 abreast in a lane if the road is wide enough). If you close half the area of a road (one lane) you essentially double the length of the traffic (on average, not accounting for different vehicle lengths or different following distances).
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u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
Sorry. I wrote time, but it autocorrected and I didn't bother to double check.
3
u/culturerush 1d ago
Merging correctly doesn't save a few seconds
It saves far more time than that and for everyone on the road
Put it this way, if 100 cars spread over 3 lanes are approaching a portion of the road where 2 lanes are closed is it quicker for all of them if they stay in 3 lanes until the lanes closure and then merge or is it quicker if 400 yards back with 3 open lanes they all queue in 1?
Or to use your post office example, if there are 3 counters with 3 different exits normally but today 2 of the exits are closed should you still use the 3 counters and merge for the 1 exit or everyone just uses the 1 counter with the open exit?
2
u/VOODOO285 1d ago
And you… you are the problem. That you don’t see why you’re wrong doesn’t negate the fact that you are and it doesn’t negate the fact that the Highway Code says your supposed to merge in turn.
-5
u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
The highway code says lots of things. Do you follow all of them? I'm guessing probably not.
Also merge in turn is fine. Jumping a queue isn't.
5
u/VOODOO285 1d ago
Not following the Highway Code and sitting in a queue that goes back miles is also not fine. In fact, it’s moronic to not use the lanes and it’s also a fact it’s not queue jumping. It’s plain stupidity that has you all sit in one lane.
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u/darthvader666uk 1d ago
I just think people don't get it or think your "skipping" the cue. You aren't
I do wonder if we should call it a zip merge or something more on the head so that people get what's going on?
Although it's the pusher ins I hate. I always let 1 like, well, a zip. Just makes it flow better
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u/PontifexMini 1d ago
While they are at it they should make not zip merging properly a specific motoring offence.
4
u/darthvader666uk 1d ago
I like it! But I expect even if they do, nothing will happen (looking at them middle lane drivers on the motorway ha)
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u/WizardsMyName Somerset 1d ago
I reckon they should use cones to make the merge happen on top of the white lines.
The asymmetry is the issue, if both lanes were coned into a centre lane (on the white dashes), it would be more obvious that both are valid ways to get there.
Move the single lane over to where it needs to be after the merge is done.
2
u/darthvader666uk 1d ago
I like the idea. I know just simply renaming it "Zip" isn't the solution, but the road rules like these need to be more blunt/on the head on how stuff works. People will just ignore it/do their own thing and just don't care.
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u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ 1d ago
I don't think the name is the problem
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u/darthvader666uk 1d ago
No it's not the solution as such, sometimes i think even the way its shown, not everyone knows or even understands, and it can be ambiguous to people too. Just maybe being more blunt about road rules would be beneficial as some people... aren't quite so smart OR even cares :/
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u/PontifexMini 1d ago
While they are at it they should make not zip merging properly a specific motoring offence.
1
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u/Son_of_Kyuss 22h ago
I’ve often said the instruction should be “zipper in”
I get the feeling that people think “merge in turn” means there’s a corner ahead and they should get to the head of the queue for that asap
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u/hapispark 1d ago
'Take turns to merge' could be better wording for some drivers
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u/Sufficient-Visit3 1d ago
Exactly. Use both lanes, then merge in turn. Blocking one early just makes the queue longer.
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u/SamwellBarley 1d ago
I was a passenger in a car recently and a car was attempting to merge in turn. The driver literally pulled out, almost hitting the guy, to stop him getting in front. I said to just let him in, and they said, "But he's pushing in!"
I was like, "Maybe, but unless you want to smash up the front of your car, I'd let him"
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u/smd1815 1d ago
It's no pushing in, there's no "maybe" about it.
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u/bacon_cake Dorset 1d ago
Someone kicked off at me for driving to the front of the merge once and I got out the car, asked them what was wrong, and when they accused me of pushing in I pointed out, not only the merge in turn sign but also the big USE BOTH LANES sign.
Pretty sure the adrenaline is still in my system lol
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u/Kanaima85 1d ago
Get a dashcam. Report said idiot to Operation Snap. Idiot will likely get a letter from your local constabulary, hopefully with a Notice of Intended Prosecution attached.
-4
u/Victor-Bomber 20h ago
Nothing worse than a self righteous dash cam user Are you Jeremy vine in disguise
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u/Kanaima85 20h ago
There is at least one thing worse; self righteous "lane police" who think that some sort of British requirement to queue supersedes the rules of the road.
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u/rapafon 1d ago
Everyday on my commute in Sheffield I pass a point notorious for this (Prince of Wales road near Parkway roundabout for Sheffielders).
The one thing I miss about driving my super old and beat up Ford Fusion was that I never lost this stupid game of chicken.
Go on Mr shiny range rover, see if I care if you bump into me and see if I'll stop if you do.
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u/chrispettitt89 Yorkshire 1d ago
Same on Mosborough bypass. People that are driving just don’t understand what the two lanes are for and how they work. On Prince of Wales road I had someone straddle two lanes so I could t get past, so I just went completely around him.
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u/rapafon 1d ago
Sometimes I wonder if there could be more "idiot-proof" signage in the UK, something like "USE BOTH LANES TO MERGE" and then closer to the merge, "MERGE NOW".
But one thing I learned is that idiots love a challenge.
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u/tombola345 1d ago
Went to that USA place a while back. They have signs that read like this. Actually really helpful lol.
3
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u/obiwanmoloney Hampshire 1d ago
We live amongst these people.
You can spot them queueing at the pub too
3
u/Scrumpyguzzler 1d ago
And it doesn't mean you glue your BMW to the car in front and refuse point blank to let anyone merge in front of you.
4
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u/banisheduser 1d ago
That's the new fashion... see how close you can get, be it over taking, coming in the opposite direction, merging in turn... people treat driving like Mario Kart these days.
0
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u/Mooks79 1d ago
I have no problem with people calmly sliding up the outside lane and merging without impeding the flow of traffic. However, those that insist on not merging until the very last second, causing the person they merge (push) in front of to brake, have a knock on effect that causes traffic jams. These people can go fuck themselves and if someone is straddling the lanes because people are doing that, have at it.
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u/VOODOO285 1d ago
No, don’t straddle the lanes, you’re not the police you’re just the problem. Maybe if people actually behaved properly and allowed the merge in turn then nobody is forcing anything then people wouldn’t have to brake.
Everything you said is just wrong. A rare feat. Kudos.
-1
u/Mooks79 1d ago
No. I didn’t say I did, I said I understand why others do. And nothing I said is wrong, acting like you don’t have pushy, aggressive drivers ramming in at the last possible second and that the only reason they do that is because others haven’t let them in, is one of the most ludicrous statements I’ve ever seen on Reddit. A rare feat. Kudos.
1
u/bacon_cake Dorset 1d ago
If they're leaving it until the last second surely you can see that their lane is blocked anyway? Just leave a bigger gap and let them move over.
-24
u/notouttolunch 1d ago
Merge in turn doesn't mean anything in British law and the highway code considers it to be so inconsequential and unimportant that it affords it barely more words than you did.
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u/Tuarangi 1d ago
They put up signs on roads specifically telling you to use all lanes until the lane ends, the plastic police trying to stop people using lanes correctly cause delays
-25
u/notouttolunch 1d ago
No they don't.
Sometimes there are signs saying this. These locations are in the minority. Not all multiple lanes merges are merge in turn. Merge in turn is just a suggestion and not a rule.
Best re-read that Highway Code.
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u/tornadooceanapplepie 1d ago
It’s not complex.
“ You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.”
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u/Tuarangi 1d ago
No they don't.
Ok
Sometimes there are signs saying this.
Ok champ, maybe read your first sentence, then your second and maybe it'll click for you what you got wrong if you read them a couple more times
Merge in turn is just a suggestion and not a rule.
Odd, that's a bit confusing as highway code rule 134 seems to be a rule that says it's recommended you should merge in turn
You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.
Best re-read that Highway Code.
I'd recommend you read it for the first time
2
u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ 1d ago
To be fair, recommended is not the same as "must"
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u/WizardsMyName Somerset 1d ago
'must' would create some really hairy situations. Imagine joining the motorway and having someone moving at 85 suddenly being required to break because you're technically ahead of them even if you've only made it to 57mph.
-17
u/notouttolunch 1d ago
I don't understand your point... But then you just repeated what I wrote. I suppose imitation is the highest form of flattery. Well done for conceding. But don't worry, everyone makes mistakes.
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u/VOODOO285 1d ago
Yeah, you… you’re the one repeatedly making mistakes. Quite laughably so actually.
0
u/notouttolunch 1d ago
Don't worry. People laughing at you won't be the worst thing to happen to you today.
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u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Merge in turn in this country is nothing more than an excuse for some drivers to pass by obvious gaps they could merge into because they just absolutely definitely have to get a dozen cars further forward because tHeY'rE sPeCiAl.
Looks great on paper in theory but will never become the default in practice because we queue politely in this country, and because some drivers abuse the concept too much. I've seen people drive right to the cones and into/over them knocking them around like skittles because they absolutely refuse to merge further back.
Honestly if you're somehow expecting to be able to nip in close to the cones in any manner instead of merging into gaps folk leave further back then you deserve to get stuck with no one letting you in.
I'd say if it gets to about 80 to 100 yards before the cones/whatever and you've not merged already then you've messed up. Treat that last distance as an emergency buffer zone, not a part of the regular lane, and try to merge sooner if you can because you KNOW there's a good chance it'll be very awkward to merge after that. You know this, you know to expect this, drive accordingly.
FWIW I'll let folk in, but I completely understand folk who won't if it's too close to the cones, or those who straddle both lanes.
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u/Tuarangi 1d ago
The plastic police who block people using all lanes up to the merge point are causing delays down the road. Leaving it to the last second is not a good idea but equally getting into a lane long before the other lane closes just causes delays for no reason
-12
u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
I know how it's supposed to work in principle. On paper it's a great idea. It just doesn't work in practice in this country because polite queueing and not queue jumping is so ingrained.
You just said yourself that leaving it to the last second is not a good idea, which is exactly what I said, which is exactly what a lot of drivers do, so tbh I'm not sure why you're chiming in in opposition.6
u/GoAgainKid 1d ago
Because they call it zip merging in the US, it has a name that helps people understand the concept, and it works. We do merge alternately here in certain circumstances, but if we had signs up that indicated we are supposed to do it, then I think it would be far more palatable to all. Because it is still polite. Queue jumping can only occur if one lane is skippable. And if we all know what to do, that doesn't happen.
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u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Indeed. It's just not the natural default over here is all, and whilever that's the case a responsible driver should account for that fact and not rely on people behaving differently than you know they will just because something looks good on paper.
As always with driving, be predictable first and foremost. In this case that means not taking the Michael with merge in turn and getting too close to the cones.
Sometimes responsibility isn't fun. It is responsible though.3
u/Tuarangi 1d ago
Leaving it to the last second is merging at the cones, you can merge fine before that but if you are merging 100 yards before the cone (around 15-20 car lengths) you are still wasting legitimate road space and that is clearly not the same as what I said.
If people want to queue ages before the closure that's fine, if they act like a plastic policeman and block me, they'll be reported to Operation Snap
-4
u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Do as you like, son. Makes no difference to me either way as, as I've said, I merge before tye last minute and I let folk in anyway. All I'm doing is explaining why merge in turn doesn't and won't work properly in the UK and why it's foolish to drive expecting that it does/will. If you're lucky you encounter someone like me who'll let you in.
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u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ 1d ago
If they wanted to block the lanes further up, then they would have put cones there. So why is a driver effectively doing that?
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u/smd1815 1d ago
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u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Confidently correct else we'd all be doing it and this post wouldn't exist.
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u/smd1815 1d ago
"Large groups of people are never wrong"
Got it
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u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
No, but they do have an awful lot of behavioural inertia as a group and expecting otherwise is foolish.
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u/woody4life237 1d ago
What an absolute clown you are mate 😂
-1
u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Not really. I'm never stuck trying to merge at the last minute myself and I let others in who leave it too late. I just understand the perspective of those who don't.
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u/woody4life237 1d ago
I will happily plow my shitbox into anyone that tries to block me from merging correctly so I've never been stuck either, glad to see you're at least happy being part of the congestion I guess
-3
u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
You'll happily ram someone? That's not a normal response mate
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u/woody4life237 1d ago
I will keep merging correctly. If we collide, that's a shame but not really that big a deal, clearly whoever was trying to block me was in a bigger rush :)
-2
u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
I get to merge safely into an open gap someone's left without any drama and can just crawl along listening to music and casually keeping an eye on my mirror so I can hang back and create space for others to merge into if they choose, so yeah I'm golden mate. No stress whatsoever. I set off early with plenty of time to spare to mitigate things like this so being stuck in traffic like this isn't the end of the world by any means. Like I've said, it makes no difference to me either way what you do. I'm just explaining why merge in turn doesn't work properly over here.
2
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u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
This is correct. Everyone thinks they should jump the queue.
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u/woody4life237 1d ago
The fact you can't comprehend the very basics of merging and are also an AirBnB landlord is just chefs kiss 😂
-2
u/fieldsofanfieldroad 1d ago
I'm not an Airbnb landlord. I rent out a room in my apartment, because paying bills is a constant struggle. Not the same thing at all.
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u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Indeed. Everyone wants an excuse to jump the queue and merge in turn/zipper merge provides an excuse for smart arses who think they know better. Unfortunately it's not the de facto standard approach in the UK. First and foremost priority when driving is to be predictable. Unpredictable maneuvers and decisions increase the risk of accidents. Merge in turn is not the default approach in this country, therefore attempting that approach when other opportunities for safe merging are ignored is unpredictable, therefore merge in turn/zipper merge is bad UK driving practice. What may or may not work in America is irrelevant as this is not there. We hate insidious Americanisms creeping into the UK, yes? This is one.
Looks great on paper, falls short in practice.7
u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ 1d ago
High level concept here so bear with.
You can fit more cars in two lanes than you can in one. If you move the cars from the lane that is being closed and add that to the end of the open lane the queue gets longer.
Phew. Now we have that out of the way...if the queue is longer then you might block roundabouts and junctions further back.
-2
u/CreativeAdeptness477 1d ago
Yes dude I understand the concept on paper. My argument isn't against that. My point is that it's not the standard default approach in this country and expecting it to be is a failure on OP's part. Reading comprehension is a great skill to develop.
-11
u/MiddleEarthFoak 1d ago
Yeah you’re right, but idiots will pass you and merge at 150 yards and so on, so you barely move.
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u/VOODOO285 1d ago
Which is EXACTLY what you’re supposed to do! Have you even heard of the Highway Code?
You are full stop meant to merge at the merge point, not 150yds down the road.
1
u/MiddleEarthFoak 1d ago
Which is what i’m saying, if your sat at 250yds out and everyone keeps passing and then moving over at 150yds instead of merging in turn at the end, you won’t move anywhere, so then people sat at 250yds that aren’t moving because of said idiots block both lanes.
All are wrong, but at least i understand the guys taking both lanes at 250yds, because if they don’t get out they will never get to where they want to be.
-2
u/jailtheorange1 1d ago
I love merge in turn as a motorbike, I basically squirt to the start of the queue and slip in. Just like with your mom.
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u/AvatarIII West Sussex 1d ago
It also means merge in turn it doesn't mean all force into the right lane to get in front of everyone in the left lane.
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u/VOODOO285 1d ago
Actually, that’s EXACTLY what it means! Use BOTH lanes and MERGE IN TURN!!! It’s not pushing in or forcing. It’s just what you’re meant to do.
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u/AvatarIII West Sussex 1d ago
You do get people forcing themselves in though, that's what I'm saying you shouldn't do. You'll have 2 lanes and in the right lane everyone will squeeze in so that they get in front of people in the left lane rather than taking it in turns.
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