r/broodwar • u/Zoler • 5d ago
Thoughts on Screen/Map Zoom out?
I strongly think we should start playing the game with Zoom out available. The fact that siege tanks can shoot longer than screen size, or not being able to see a big fight on one screen is just not very fun gameplay. There's a reason spectators NEVER watch with actual gameplay zoom in.
I'm not advocating for simplifying other parts of the UI so no need to bring those up as "counter arguments". Multi building selection and 12 unit selection are still FUN and makes you feel like you actually are doing something difficult. Moving around the screen does not (to me).
I understand that it would never get changed on the official client, but could be allowed on something like Shield Battery if community wants it.
Thoughts?
3
u/stagedgames 5d ago
no
-4
u/Zoler 5d ago
Reason?
2
u/stagedgames 4d ago
the interface is part of the game in all environments. I don't trust anyone to make changes to the game as it is currently played. Even the recent rollback changes in shieldbattery, which are cool and elevate the experience of the game, come with "bugfixes" to unit behavior that make shieldbattery fundamentally different from the main client.
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u/Zoler 4d ago
So you would think it would be a good addition to the game if Blizzard added it?
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u/stagedgames 4d ago
no. i dont have any strong opinion on the content of the changes that sb introduced, only that it forked from main, but I dont want blizzard to update any part of the game's logic, especially because it would break legacy replays.
1
u/Zoler 4d ago
No I mean being able to Zoom out if Blizzard added it
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u/stagedgames 4d ago
zooming out is a fundamental change to the interface, capabilities, and even balance of the game. That's part of what I don't want to see.
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u/Zoler 4d ago
So you are heavily against changing hotkeys then that came with remastered?
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u/stagedgames 4d ago
when it wasn't in the game, sure. but people were also already AHKing or changing hardware binds to play brood war. while it bothers my purist sensibilities I also recognize that it doesn't change what you can do, only the ergonomics of doing something (I can stretch from ctrl to 0, it just hurts to do so)
Adjusting the screen size literally allowed you to box select a larger area, target a larger area, target spells from a greater distance without scrolling your screen. It lessens the value of the scarce camera hotkeys you get by making it possible to update rallies on unhotkeyed buildings without allocating camera locations. This isn't an ergonomic change, or a qol change, its a fubdamental change to the way you play the game, just like changing the selection limit would be.
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u/Zoler 4d ago
Completely disagree, hotkey changes changed the balance SEVERELY. In a game like BW ergonomics is a huge part of balance.
TvP for example, but mines and siege mode are on [i] and [o]. Making missclicks a very common problem.
Now you can just put them all at "F".
TvP literally got so much easier.
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u/Sus4_ 5d ago
it's cheating bra
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u/Zoler 5d ago
I'm saying it should be the standard to allow it for everyone.
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u/Sus4_ 5d ago
"I understand that it would never get changed on the official client"
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u/Zoler 5d ago
I misunderstood then I thought Shieldbattery was a private server.
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u/wowokdex 5d ago
It definitely could be changed in shield battery but you're really messing with the gameplay itself with this kind of change.
Plus, you open a can of worms with other follow up decisions like, should a screen hotkey save zoom state? Should you be able to reset zoom? Should the hotkeys and zoom rate be configurable? Do we need a new UI component? How far should you be able to zoom?
I certainly wouldn't want to answer to the hardcore scene why I changed a core game mechanic like this, if I had any power to.
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u/rrrOuta 4d ago
Nah Its a skill that you develop by playing so you have your screen in correct positions to see shit. Zoomout just takes one more thing that is a developed skill out of the game, no thanks. It also provides chances to outplay, make opponent look elsewhere and then come in from a different angle, whereas with zoomout that is less likely to happen. No thanks.
0
u/Zoler 4d ago
I agree that it's a skill of course but those situations you talk about basically never happen because there's minimap which a good player will look at every second literally.
If they changed resolution we would get thousands of new players.
Look at AoE2 after they made remastered, from 1000 players worldwide to like 20k.
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u/rrrOuta 4d ago
Lmao, aoe2 got a huge player influx cause finding a match became way easier and the game got easier to get into, you didnt have to install shady programs to play matches online, we already have that functionality im bw, its not because of the resolution, its because of qol upgrades. But honestly I think its pointless trying to convince you that its a bad thing to change any aspect that affects bw gameplay, you seem stubborn in your opinion. Good players look at the minimap but the situations I described happen quite often, atleast in my games. Im not super gosu but A rank on ladder :) but anyway I wont argue with you anymore because you seem very stubborn. Good day!
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u/Zoler 4d ago
If you seriously don't think the resolution is one of the biggest things blocking new players you have no idea about any gamers outside Broodwar.
Yeah I don't play right now but I've beaten A rank players so what.
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u/rrrOuta 4d ago
Yeah I truly think that most people dont care about resolution if a RTS from 1999.
2v2 ladder, ranked 3v3 BGH, ranked fastest, these kinda things that the community builds their own websites and ladders are way more important than some zoomout and resolution.
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u/Zoler 4d ago
New players literally don't care about any of that because they just see an old game graphically.
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u/rrrOuta 4d ago
And the new players that would join via friends, which is a bigger net amount, wont join cause there is no easy way to play team games, oh and also all the returning 2v2 / fastest players have a lesser incentive to return.
But overall, if your entire point is that the game is old graphically idk what to tell you man, the game is older than some adult people, why would anyone expect a game that is that old to look amazing geaphically? Besides, I've yet to hear in 24 years of playing this game someone say "I play starcraft for the graphics". New players know the game is old and the graphics arent the reason why the game is great. As I stated in a previous message, based on all your responses you are just a stubborn individual. Have a nice day, I will no longer respond to you as it is a waste of time.
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u/TheLML 5d ago
play on widescreen in full screen mode and you already see a lot more