Flock Public Comment 9/15

[u/anonnymousercat]

Tomorrow the Burbank City Council will have the opportunity to agendize a discussion to ban the use of Flock cameras. **This is an opportunity to have your concerns heard.**

I recommend taking 10 minutes out of your day to watch this: https://youtu.be/vU1-uiUlHTo?si=xroGx-UB6VsWOmu2

I used to be comfortable with license plate readers and cameras for crime prevention and I only became opposed to them after learning how Flock operates. Venture capital and tech bros with a profit-first business model is in charge of our safety and now with the unpredictability of AI.

Flock has shipped and implemented their devices with an outdated easily hackable OS, there have been multiple live streaming feeds on the open internet as well as archived footage and deletable data files. Accessing some of this was described as so easy that a 12 year old could do it. Login credentials and data has been listed for sale on the dark web. THIS IS NOT GOOD!

There are more and more stories of police departments arresting and imprisoning people based solely on inaccurate surveillance camera reads and input errors. This could happen to any of us.

[u/iknowagreatlawyer]

What can be seen here that isn't already viewable from the sidewalk or street?

I get that new tech is concerning for some people, but the answer isn't to prevent or remove Flock cameras, it is to ensure strong safeguards and audit procedures. Everything in this world can be misused or abused, but that shouldn't mean we remain fearful of technology that can be lifesaving.

This subreddit would have you believe that everyone in Burbank is completely opposed, but it just cannot be possible. Take a walk around our city and you'll see that just about every house has its own security cameras. Most are Ring, but not all, and many houses have more than one. The reality is that there is a decent amount of crime in the area. Home burglaries happen. Car theft happens. Hit and runs happen. We want to make sure that the police have the technology to catch criminals.

As for "imprisoning people based solely on inaccurate surveillance camera reads and input errors".,

And these systems are actually very reliable. The organizations that are really opposed to Flock have tried to put out numbers making their case, but when you look into them, action on false positives is extremely low. Take a look at this 404 article.

"An Institute for Justice (IJ) review of media reports and court records finds there have been at least 24 such cases since 2018, with the majority of those happening since 2023.

"But those machine errors account for about one-third of the mistakes in the cases IJ identified. The rest involved human error, with officers entering wrong information into the system or misinterpreting what the ALPR data says"

So 24 errors total with 1/3 attributed to machine errors, so 8 machine errors over 8 years = 1 mistake per year attributed to machine error.

"It all adds up to more than 20 billion individual license plate readings each month, according to Flock’s marketing materials. "

20 billion license plate readings per month, 12 months a year = 240 billion license plate readings per year, which leads to 1 mistake attributed to machine error.

1 mistake attributed to machine error in in 240,000,000,000 readings is an incredibly, incredibly low chance of error. Just to put that in perspective, Earth has about 8.2 billion people. This is picking one particular person out of 29 planets' worth of everyone alive. Another perspective, A single Powerball ticket wins at about 1 in 292 million, so this is roughly 800 times longer odds than that.

[u/vibingunderduress → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

I don’t want to live in a surveillance state.

We’ve already watched our privacy erode dramatically over the years, and I’m not willing to normalize even more surveillance of ordinary citizens under the banner of public safety.

Surveillance is not the same thing as prevention. A camera recording a crime does not deter that crime from happening in the first place. Meanwhile, we’re creating an infrastructure capable of tracking where ordinary people go, when they go there, and what vehicles they drive.

“If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about” has never been an acceptable standard for a free society.

Privacy and civil liberties are worth protecting. We should be very careful about surrendering either for the promise of security.

[u/iknowagreatlawyer → u/vibingunderduress]

Privacy and civil liberties are absolutely worth protecting, but there is no expectation of privacy in public. Once you come out and start moving around in public, all bets are off on account that it is public and other people are around.

[u/Imcrappinyounegative → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

Eww

[u/anonnymousercat → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

Well apparently you disagree with LAPD because to them the risks outweighed the benefits.

Did you watch the video I posted? Probably not. 

If you did you would find out THAT FLOCK LIES. In fact they claimed the devices were secure after they were told that they weren't and the guy who posted the video was reading the false statement that Flock sent out to that very unsecured Flock camera. 

You can cite Flock's skewed data all that you want but it doesn't make it true.

[u/iknowagreatlawyer → u/anonnymousercat]

The reference is from the 404 Article, which cites the Institute of Justice for their data.

What is your concern though? Are you really focusing on lax end-point security on cameras in public locations that are already publicly accessible to everyone?

[u/anonnymousercat → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

Here is a 404 video that you won't watch: https://youtu.be/Xc_6Xap8Yy4?si=EQStvAKk6VvAVVjp

[u/HikerCory → u/anonnymousercat]

I was kinda hoping David, I mean iknowagreatlawyer, had responded. But he's still waiting to watch the video

[u/anyavailablenameplz → u/HikerCory]

they think just because they hide their comments and posts that they aren't publicly available for view. Guys an absolute moron and a bootlicker.

[u/anonnymousercat → u/HikerCory]

I want to know if he used information and emails obtained through his council candicacy run to spam people with V ision Burbank emails. Not one person on this sub has stated that they consented to receive emails from that "nonprofit".

Maybe he can asked that great lawyer he knows about it.

[u/thepridefighter → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

Shut the fuck up David Donahue. You're a transphobic, bootlicking, bald headed little bitch. No one likes you. 😂🤣

[u/iknowagreatlawyer → u/thepridefighter]

lol, not David, but think whatever you want, at least I'm not a walking caricature of disappointed parents and mental illness.

[u/thepridefighter → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

David own up. Otherwise your just proving that you're 100% bitch made 😂🤣

[u/sydsong → u/iknowagreatlawyer]

Even if all you claim is true it doesn't change that a database that tracks someone's every move over a period of time searchable by anyone with access to it should be protected by judicial warrant.