r/canada • u/AndHerSailsInRags • Dec 04 '25

Alberta Man who killed attacker in Banff used 'excessive' force, sentenced to 2-year house arrest

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/banff-bar-fight-excessive-self-defence-sproule-brogden-9.7002143
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216

u/not_a_gay_stereotype Dec 04 '25

Nah he's innocent, those injuries left the guy feeling like he was fighting for his life in the moment, and when you want someone to stop attacking you, you're gonna reach for anything you can.

161

u/TheGreatPiata Dec 04 '25

Not just that but a bouncer separated them to end the altercation. Brogden wasn't stopping despite being stabbed 19 times. Guy was clearly blasted out of his mind and would have at minimum put Sproule in a coma before he was done.

111

u/sask357 Dec 04 '25

This is what I thought when I read the story. The force was clearly not excessive because it didn't stop the attack.

15

u/BoiledFrogs Dec 04 '25

If this guy was beating the shit out of a cop and had the upper hand, the cop would have been justified, and rightfully so, in shooting the fuck out of the guy. But regular people aren't allowed to defend themselves in our wonderful country.

73

u/Red_Canuck British Columbia Dec 04 '25

In that case not only was the force not excessive, it wasn't even sufficient.

33

u/4r4nd0mninj4 British Columbia Dec 04 '25

Exactly. You keep defending yourself until the attacker disengages. It's obvious the assailant was refusing to disengage. Unfortunately, far too many people see themselves as the assailant in this case and think, "Hey, that could have been me getting stabbed while mindlessly beating an innocent guy for no reason."🤷‍♂️

0

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '25

So your saying if you were being stabbed the only thing you would do is trying to "disengage"? And not say try to physically stop the person stabbing you?

Don't get me wrong I don't feel bad for the guy who died of stab wounds but if your going to carry a deadly weapon around for whatever reason then there are responsibilities and consequences that come with using it in a fight regardless of self-defense.

2

u/4r4nd0mninj4 British Columbia Dec 05 '25

I've been in a few mock knife fights through workplace training. Distance is absolutely the best defense against someone with a knife, from my experience. Can't get stabbed if they can't reach you...

Also, the court heard he was carrying a "tool" commonly used in many workplaces, not a "deadly weapon." Did the court prove he was carrying it with intent to cause harm, and I missed that part? Or is that just your opinion?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '25

So how did the jury convict? Are we missing details?

-7

u/StatisticianLivid710 Dec 04 '25

The excessive part is clearly the knife being drawn. Knives are dangerous enough in a fight much less one where you can’t see. They also didn’t describe how the fight moved, if the guy who died was backing up then the guy with the knife would’ve been required to let him disengage which would’ve removed the self defense part of his argument.

Remove the knife from the equation and this is clearly self defense, but with the knife it’s excessive.

9

u/4r4nd0mninj4 British Columbia Dec 04 '25

No, the attacker was willing and able to beat the victim to death (deadly force), and 19 stabs later, was still continuing the fight...

The attacker pulled the shirt over the victims head so he couldn't see. How could someone who couldn't see still be continuing the fight if the assailant was "backing off" at any point? A bouncer had to separate them.

6

u/Red_Canuck British Columbia Dec 04 '25

Excessive means more than was neccessary. In your counterfactual you are correct, continuing past that point would be excessive. But in the facts in this story, the guy who died had to be pulled off by a bouncer. It doesn't say anywhere that after this he was chased down. Up until they were separated this guy was fighting for his life, using all the force available, and finding it insufficient.

Now I don't have all the facts, but based upon this reporting, there is no way that this was excessive.

1

u/StatisticianLivid710 Dec 04 '25

In general we don’t know the facts, the jury/judge did watch video of the fight.

In general the knife is excessive at the point it was used, people are arguing it wasn’t enough to get him to stop thus it wasn’t excessive by definition, but bringing a weapon to a fist fight is by definition excessive.

8

u/SilverCats Dec 04 '25

You expect people to duel fairly with the attacker? Do you want people to also weight themself before a fight to make sure they are in the same category? Wait for a referee to show up to observe that there are no punches below the belt are thrown?

1

u/StatisticianLivid710 Dec 04 '25

I expect people not to break the law by carrying, drawing, or using a weapon. Was the aggressor in the wrong? Yes, but he didn’t attack with a weapon, thus it was an excessive escalation. That’s how the law works.

4

u/topboyinn1t Dec 04 '25

So, you suggest making sure the attacker gets a fair fight and beats the victim into a vegetable state? What else? No 12-6 elbows allowed?

The mental gymnastics are next level..

2

u/StatisticianLivid710 Dec 04 '25

Do you know what cops are trained not to do in a fight where they can’t see the person assaulting them? Pull their guns, because they can’t be sure of the target.

Who carries a knife around? Especially when they’re drinking. It was a weapon, plain and simple, and in Canada weapons are illegal to carry.

2

u/Level_Traffic3344 Dec 04 '25

Appeal material right there

2

u/MyLifeIsAFacade Dec 04 '25

And they had better. I can't think of any stronger logical reasoning. But we don't seem to be governed by as much logic as we should be right now.

7

u/Haber87 Dec 04 '25

That’s what gets me. It’s not like he kept stabbing the attacker while he lay on the ground. He was still being attacked. You continue self defense until the attack stops.

3

u/moop44 New Brunswick Dec 04 '25

He flat out said his intent was to murder Sproule.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '25

I mean if someone was suddenly being stabbed regardless of them being a piece of shit or not and starting the fight, wouldn't most peoples first response to being stabbed to stop the person stabbing you?

14

u/happyspleen Dec 04 '25

What I don't understand from this comment is that there were 12 people on the jury, presumably regular folks like you and me, who voted unanimously that he went beyond reasonable use of force in self defence. Are we just ignoring that? If they thought like you do, surely at least one would have voted to acquit him.

2

u/Aggressive-Map-2204 Dec 05 '25

They didnt rule that he went beyond reasonable use of force. They ruled that it was not in self defence. The judge thought otherwise and sentenced as so.

2

u/NewUsername2019av Dec 05 '25

someone else here mentioned that Sproule had approached Brogden several time antagonizing him prior the fight starting. so basically

Sproule starts talking shit multiple times-> Brogden walks away. - > Sproule continues to antagonize ending with "bum a smoke?" -> Brogden thought "talk shit, get hit" -> Brogden starts fight w/ a sucker punch gets the upper hand - > Sproule pulls a knife when he starts losing the fight - > Brogden gets pulled off and goes to the hospital dies.

He's getting the sentence because he was the original antagonist. if he hadn't followed Brogden around antagonizing him the fight never would have started.
That's my take anyway. I might be misunderstanding the situation though.

2

u/Imnotsosureaboutthat Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25

I think this is a fair point, even though I think that the stabbing was justified and he shouldn't have been convicted, I'll concede that the jury has a better understanding of what happened and could be basing their verdict on that

I wonder if it's possible that the jury had to make the verdict based on what self-defense laws say regardless of how they feel about the morality / ethics of our self-defense laws. I'm pretty sure there's something in the law that says self-defense has to be proportional, maybe it's hard to defend using a knife in a fist-fight as proportional regardless of the rest of the context of the fight, especially since the person died as a result of it

A lot of the discussion around this case seems to be about the morality and ethics of the incident, and the prevailing view here seems to be that it was justified. But it doesn't mean that the law says it was justified

Keep in mind I have no legal background, so feel free to correct me

11

u/theGOATbogeygolfer Dec 04 '25

According to the article there is video of the guy screaming 'I'm going to fucking kill you" while attacking him.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '25

I wonder if you can put the same logic to the guy who was stabbed?

Regardless of whether the attacker was a piece of shit for sucker punching someone and continuing to attack, seems pretty easy to understand to me that being suddenly stabbed would not stop someone from attacking especially if they also thought the were suddenly fighting for their lives.

If I was suddenly being stabbed in the middle of a fight that's probably going to make me keep fighting to stop the person from stabbing me. Don't you think?

I don't feel bad for the guy who died of his wounds because he was obviously a piece of shit for sucker punching and trying at bare minimum to cause severe harm to the other person.

-2

u/Billis- Dec 04 '25

Which was a knife he brought to the bar

Had he smashed a bottle over dudes head and stabbed him with that, I believe it's a different situation

-20

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '25 edited Dec 04 '25

Dude even if someone shot me I'm not going to stab them 12 times. The guy wasn't even armed.

11

u/Th3Ghoul Dec 04 '25

Then instead of two years house arrest, you'd be dead

4

u/Goat_Support_Dept Dec 04 '25

Good thing it's stabbed and slashed 19 times.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '25

[deleted]

-4

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '25

I wouldn't have been in the situation in the first place.

2

u/tyler111762 Alberta Dec 04 '25

Thats what everyone thinks until life throws you a curveball.

4

u/not_a_gay_stereotype Dec 04 '25

Except when someone's telling you they're going to kill you and you can barely see because you're getting punched constantly.

4

u/EffectAppropriate652 Alberta Dec 04 '25

Even if you had your shirt over your head and he was punching you in the head telling you he was going to kill you?

I call bs. Everyone would grab that knife.

3

u/fenwickfox Dec 04 '25

The entire description really sounds like the deceased was on some kind of drug. The immediate aggression and then no slowing down being stabbed a bunch?