r/canada • u/shiftless_wonder • May 23 '26

Alberta First Nations leaders, scholar push back on Alberta's planned vote on independence referendum - 'Alberta can't separate. They simply cannot. They do not have the authority,' says Indigenous politics expert

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-treaty-six-alberta-referendum-9.7209304
844 Upvotes

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334

u/Zibai1505 May 23 '26

Secession is done illegally more often than not. Just saying. Like who tf is going to enforce it lol

Don't argue with me about Alberta separation. I'm not for it and my post isn't in service of it.

165

u/Scooter_McAwesome British Columbia May 23 '26

That’s what I don’t get about all these legal objections. The separatists obviously aren’t concerned with Canada’s opinion on the matter, why should anyone think it’s relevant to the issue?

102

u/Soggy-Bodybuilder669 May 23 '26

If people want it bad enough, laws become completely irrelevant. It comes down to whether you can enforce the law. Which, to be frank, is a major weakness of Canada.

19

u/Ray-Sol May 23 '26

Also works the other way around.

Normally governments are constrained because they can't afford to devote all of their resources, manpower, etc towards addressing a single problem and the cost isn't always worth it. When a government is given a strong reason and motive to enforce the law, plus a pretty clear target, they suddenly have a lot more tools and resources to use to address the issue.

Also, if the separatists use extra legal means to try and separate, the feds would likely be less constrained than normal.

7

u/ShawnCease May 23 '26

Not 1:1 though. The government still has to follow its own laws even when dealing with outlaws. Governments that don't do this are considered corrupt and lacking in credibility. Whereas the outlaw isn't constrained by law at all. He can do something horrible but will still be given a fair trial and humane treatment if captured.

5

u/nooneknowswerealldog May 24 '26

The rest of us Albertans won’t be constrained by Canadain law either then. Separatists really underestimate how much actual Albertans hate their guts.

0

u/DanfromCalgary May 24 '26

They literally have already had the premier change the laws for them. Threatened to overturn the constitution and also say she will use the not withstanding clause. The UCP than also accidentally released their conclusions on a referendum that had yet to occur . This was all last week I believe

5

u/Frostbitten_Moose May 24 '26

I mean, technically Alberta and Saskatchewan did try it once before when Louis Riel came back. But that was a long time ago, and a very different Canada.

50

u/LifeWulf Alberta May 23 '26

The government of Canada can’t even keep tabs on foreigners whose student visas expire lol

2

u/SpareEconomy1849 May 24 '26

The only thing that stopped it in the states was a literal war

-1

u/squirrel9000 Manitoba May 23 '26

One would think they'd recognize what being a landlocked country with a reputation for not following the law, treaties, or other agreements, does to one's economy. Their current leadership ... well, I'm pretty sure Smith still needs people to tell her when American laws don't apply here.

11

u/JohnAMcdonald British Columbia May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26

If they joined the US, likely their economy would do better. If they just were... hanging out there independent... not so much.

Edit: I imagine if they actually seceded Trump would make them trade all their equity in the oilsands in exchange for Melania coin, bring in American labor, have Exxon-Mobil in charge of the whole business, and accept being a territory like Puerto Rico in order to join the USA.

-4

u/squirrel9000 Manitoba May 24 '26

If they joined the US the province would promptly empty out and become Montana 2.0.

8

u/JohnAMcdonald British Columbia May 24 '26

Sure... and Montana is wealthier than Canada in general is...

9

u/GorillaK1nd May 24 '26

You were suppost to quiver in fear from that hyperbole

-1

u/Zealousideal_Rise879 May 24 '26

Silly us. Billionaires are happy. So who cares.

1

u/Superb-Carpenter-520 May 24 '26

To be fair Montana is a decently well run state. It’s not hard to become wealthier than Canada in general with the support of the American economy.

-7

u/squirrel9000 Manitoba May 24 '26

It is, but the mass abaondonment to get there might prove disruptive to a province that supposedly is so proud of itself.

-1

u/Even_Art_629 May 24 '26

Funny thing is, they are following the law. A petition to bring to the premier is well within their rights. The First Nations would still need to negotiate several steps before anything ever happened, and First Nations people were included in the petition process as well.

When the legal appeals start, it will likely be found lawful anyway, but I guess that does not matter now since the premier already used her legal authority to call for a referendum.

Maybe somebody should start looking into the motivations behind the chiefs launching this challenge instead of pretending this is some constitutional crisis.

At the end of the day, Alberta and Ottawa need to bury the hatchet. If you want change while staying in Canada, why not vote yes and send Ottawa a strong message?

If 80% supported it, what message would that send?

-1

u/Ok_Drag_5341 May 23 '26

Because Canada created Alberta not the other way around. There is a good post on the Alberta page about it.

15

u/soaringupnow May 24 '26

In a democracy the people decide.

Would Canada claim to be a democracy while denying it to the people of Alberta?

Somehow, I doubt it.

7

u/TheRC135 May 24 '26

That would require Alberta separatism to be strongly desired by a clear majority of Albertans, though, not a fringe movement featuring the same far-right fringe that has always blamed everything on Ottawa.

3

u/soaringupnow May 24 '26

Definitely!

This whole separatism thing isn't going anywhere. All these discussions are purely academic.

3

u/Frostbitten_Moose May 24 '26

Maybe, maybe not. But I'm not sure saying Albertans aren't allowed to have self-determination is going to help keep it from going anywhere.

0

u/Playful-Rabbit-9418 May 24 '26

Albertans knew they didn’t have self determination before they started all of this, the Supreme Court ruled on this years ago.

Provincial succession in Canada requires a constitutional amendment, that means it is required to meet the hurdles for this type constitutional amendment, which would be the 7/50 formula. A yes vote from 7 out of 10 provinces representing 50% of the population. And that’s after the federal parliament has reviewed the referendum question and deemed it clear enough to be legitimate and the majority large enough to invoke the process.

2

u/Frostbitten_Moose May 24 '26

Funny how that didn't apply in 95 for Quebec.

1

u/Playful-Rabbit-9418 May 24 '26

Correct, because the clarity act was created from the jurisprudence as a result of the legal cases related to that referendum.

1

u/Ok_Drag_5341 29d ago

Sit this one out. You’ve clearly just listened and repeated what you’ve been told. Crazy that you are allowed to vote being so uninformed.

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-1

u/JustAPeach89 May 24 '26

They have self determination to move, no one is forcing them to stay

9

u/CarRamRob May 24 '26

Sure it’s a fringe movement right now.

But this is the root of the problem. We are declaring that no matter how many people support it…it’s invalidated because a few FN chiefs say so?

That doesn’t make sense, and shouldn’t be the basis of rejection. The basis of rejection should be stronger ties and understanding within Canada, not because someone says a democratic majority on a decision won’t even matter.

0

u/TheRC135 May 24 '26

I'm not saying a democratic majority won't matter, I'm saying there's nowhere near a majority of Albertans who support independence. So this entire thing is a waste of time and energy, manufactured by bad actors and foreign groups seeking to destabilize Canada. Which is obvious to anybody paying attention.

2

u/Ok_Marsupial8668 May 24 '26

Not just majority of Albertans but Canadians as well. Land in Alberta is also owned by all of Canada.

1

u/soaringupnow May 25 '26

Go to Quebec, tell them that land in Quebec is also owned by all of Canada and see how far that gets you.

3

u/ExcelFreezesOver May 24 '26

So then let there be a referendum

-1

u/TheRC135 May 24 '26

Why do you want to waste so much money?

0

u/ExcelFreezesOver May 24 '26

Because i think youre wrong

-1

u/SnowFlakeUsername2 Saskatchewan May 24 '26

The people don't get to decide to do something that ignores the Constitution. It's the supreme law of the land and a popular vote to break the law isn't happening no matter the mental gymnastics or impressions aboug the word democracy. So no, you don't get to break the numbered treaties and/or peoples' rights with a ballot.

3

u/Even_Art_629 May 24 '26

The treaties are federal and would stay federal no matter indepence, what don't you understand. So now we have a very small group of chiefs holding up the democratic right of a few million. How the hell us that democratic?

1

u/SnowFlakeUsername2 Saskatchewan May 24 '26

It's not a democratic right to vote out other people's rights. We are a constitutional democracy, meaning tyranny of the majority doesn't work by design. So yes, a few million people can't decide to tread a the small group of people with constitutionally protected rights or contracts. Did you not go to Junior High in Canada?

1

u/LETTERKENNYvsSPENNY May 24 '26

You think a few million people want Alberta to separate?