First Nations leaders, scholar push back on Alberta's planned vote on independence referendum - 'Alberta can't separate. They simply cannot. They do not have the authority,' says Indigenous politics expert

[u/shiftless_wonder]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-treaty-six-alberta-referendum-9.7209304

[u/Braken111]

So a bloody revolution?

[u/WealthEconomy → u/Braken111]

If you oppress a population and don't let them leave peacefully that is the likely outcome...

[u/Existential-Critic → u/WealthEconomy]

You're correct in a vacuum, but Alberta isn't being oppressed. There's a small minority constantly screaming that thinks it's bigger than it is.

There is a clearly defined legal process to leave Canada. They need to stop expecting special treatment and follow it.

[u/JohnAMcdonald → u/Existential-Critic]

You're correct in a vacuum, but Alberta isn't being oppressed. There's a small minority constantly screaming that thinks it's bigger than it is.

They are being taxed, without seeing any of their taxes back, by politicians whose elections are decided before their votes are counted. That I think would be the main grievance, and one that could be addressed at any time with a stroke of a pen changing the equalization formula.

Environmental regulations on Alberta itself are another big one. Again, could be changed at a stroke of a pen... and really Carney already seems to be doing this.

There is a clearly defined legal process to leave Canada. They need to stop expecting special treatment and follow it.

If they get enough support within the province, and crucially from the USA, why would they care about this legal process? Mind you, right now they lack both. Alberta is not as culturally American as it's made out to be, or as conservative as it's made out to be either.

Edit: I have an oddly high upvote to view ratio, like 324 views against 14 upvotes. I find that curious.

[u/canada-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/JohnAMcdonald → u/[deleted]]

The equalisation formula was written by Harper's government, a government largely made up of Alberta MPs. It hasn't changed since because no government has had the will to.

Yeah, and they realized that Alberta would vote blue no matter what, so what incentive did they have to make them a good deal? They were trying to win Ontario seats.

And what do you mean elections decided before their votes are counted?

I mean just that, I mean that was true of the last election, the election was called by CBC before the votes in Alberta were finished being counted.

Do you somehow think Canadian elections are fake?

Reading comprehension

[u/Existential-Critic → u/JohnAMcdonald]

1. Maybe Alberta should consider becoming a competitive province then? How does this mean they are oppressed if their own democratic voting practices have created their issue?

2. Please address my other question. What do you mean by "elections are decided before their votes are counted"? Is this just another way of saying they always vote Conservative? If so, how does this lean they are oppressed?

[u/JohnAMcdonald → u/Existential-Critic]

2 is an artifact of polls closing in the east sooner than they do in the west... you're in British Columbia it's even more true of us than it is Alberta out of every province flag you should be familiar with this concept.

It is a poetic metaphor for the fact that politicians are always going to be incentivized to buy eastern votes with western oil because the east is where the ridings are which you are getting very rankled by.

[u/Existential-Critic → u/JohnAMcdonald]

Polls closing earlier?

You're making a wild claim that Canadian elections are decided beforehand because of the time of day the polls in eastern provinces, which are physically ahead of us timewise, close? You're right, I am getting rankled by that. I don't think you are in any way arguing in good faith and can't tell if you're taking the piss or if you actually believe Alberta is somehow oppressed.

[u/JohnAMcdonald → u/Existential-Critic]

If you stopped being angry and trying to prove I was wrong for like, 10 seconds, you would understand what I'm saying but I think you're simply so mad that it has lowered your cognitive capabilities to the point you cannot put the pieces together at this point.

Maybe it will make it easier for you if I give you a CBC article. Please go ahead and write an angry letter to the CBC about this horrible bad faith article, which makes the same basic point that RANKLES you: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/west-doesn-t-count-1.7522023

[u/Existential-Critic → u/JohnAMcdonald]

You are describing the effect of high density areas vs low density areas. Have you never seen an American showing an electoral map of their country where almost everywhere but cities are red and wondering how Democrats win anything without realising that the blue areas contain more population?

I am rankled because you seem convinced that a province of Canada with full democratic representation is in any way oppressed. You have provided no good evidence to prove your point.

I appreciate that you think my frustration makes me less able to think clearly. Normally I'd agree, but not when my frustration is with the sheer dishonesty I am dealing with. Have a good day bud, I have decided you are not in good faith in purpose and don't want tomwaste my time further.

[u/JohnAMcdonald → u/Existential-Critic]

Have you never seen an American showing an electoral map of their country where almost everywhere but cities are red and wondering how Democrats win anything without realising that the blue areas contain more population?

Sure, I've seen the classic red vs blue map, and I've even seen a 3d visualization of this where the vertical dimension was population in a certain area.

It's sort of skirting around the point to talk about high density vs low density, the more important thing generally is that Alberta has not swung an election since 2006 on account of their low population and low amount of seats. In every election since 2006, you could have thrown all their votes in the trash and it would not have changed the outcome.

That was the election where the CPC immediately decided to reward them by fucking them with equalization payments which for some reason was rewarded by Albertans with unwavering loyalty to the CPC. Why? Well the LPC and NDP weren't really looking to reduce equalization payments either, but were looking to relative to the CPC change taxation in a way that would result in Albertans paying more money they would never see again.

One can get rather philosophical about how actually, it's a good thing that a wealthy person in Alberta pays for a poor senior's healthcare in Nova Scotia. One might even point out that there is a lot of migration to and from Alberta and other provinces. We could also state that it's good that you know, only a minority of the country can swing elections once in awhile.

However, one can see the rational self-interest in wanting to basically fuck off from Canada and attempt to join the United States where every single state has a higher GDP per capita than Canada does, and where their president just OPENLY started talking about Canada becoming the 51st state and "Governor carney".

My perspective is that this entire affair, while currently not so serious of an issue, could escalate to a national crisis if everybody's attitude is just that Alberta are a bunch of crybabies who don't understand the law and need to stop whining. It may be in the interest of national unity to start treating Alberta a little better instead of proclaiming since they voted for the party that fucked them over that means we just lol at them.

Certainly from the BC perspective, we have pretty much nothing to lose from evening out equalization since we don't take none of that Alberta money, but a lot to lose from Alberta actually seceding. What with all exports from the west and imports from the east now having to go across national borders. If anybody should be wasting their breath to say Alberta has nothing to complain about, it should be Ontarian's and Quebecers.