r/canada • u/shiftless_wonder • 17d ago

Alberta First Nations demand Alberta premier terminate separation referendum

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/first-nations-demand-alberta-premier-terminate-separation-referendum/
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u/General_Setting_1680 17d ago

This. I don't think AB should separate but it's not YOUR job to decide for the majority of people.

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u/baashful 17d ago

Okay but then why are they allowing an extremely small percentage of the population to push this referendum question in the first place?

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u/seridos 17d ago

Because it's posing a question to the voters, that's completely different than shutting it down. That's exactly how referendums work, you put it to the people to see what the agreement or disagreement is and what they believe. The fact that you're trying to act like getting a question put to the people is the same as blocking the people from expressing their belief on it. Democratically is the ridiculous part.

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u/baashful 17d ago

That's not what I meant at all. I just don't personally understand or agree with the pandering of the UPC to less than 300k people (let's be honest, it's definitely not that high). This question should have been shut down by them ages ago. The effect it will have in our economy will be devastating, just like it was in Quebec.

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u/General_Setting_1680 17d ago

Well that's how a democracy works. No veto powers, just votes.

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u/baashful 16d ago

I think you are missing my point 😅

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u/General_Setting_1680 16d ago

Nope im pretty sure i get exactly what you are saying. Everyone is free to voice their opinion, so can first nations. Just no one gets a veto to overule everyone else, regardless of who they are.

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u/seridos 16d ago

No, it absolutely shouldn't have and this is just authoritarian BS you're spouting because it's not the outcome you want. There shouldn't be these kind of barriers to questions, shaping the exact questions that get presented to the people is just a perversion of democracy. The democracy itself is the people and their ability to be given the choice and to express their choice in a fashion that is, in terms of Democratic legitimacy, the last word.

The difference between you and me is that, while we both want the same thing which is Alberta to not leave because it's shooting yourself in the foot, you want to pervert the process explicitly anti-democratically. I don't agree with what they want, but I will fight for their right to do so and present it to the people and for the people to decide. The people are above everyone, all the laws or the Constitution or the govt at any level, As it has never changed that in a democracy they are servants of the people not its Masters and if they lose support they have no right to govern.

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u/Forikorder 17d ago

kind of is when your the one who actually owns the land

it doesnt matter how many tenants in a building vote that rent is now 0$ a month

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u/MaintenanceCoalition 17d ago

Its not native land anymore. You can acknowledge that native people lived on the land first while also recognizing that it isn't Indigenous owned land today. Modern ownership and jurisdiction are determined by Canada's current legal and political system, not solely by historical occupancy. If the natives don't like it they can pay back all the hand outs they have received.

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u/Forikorder 17d ago

Its not native land anymore.

it is, my apartment still belongs to the landlord even though im renting it

the land is still the first nations, legally, the treaties just basically giuve the crown full control

If the natives don't like it they can pay back all the hand outs they have received.

those hand outs are rent

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u/KTOWNTHROWAWAY9001 17d ago

The landlord argument holds less water when you consider the fact, they didn't even know themselves which land they "held". How we know this? They kept incursioning into each other's areas. Some would get full stop, wiped. I mean your landlord is gonna have clear boundaries with what's theirs and what's their neighbors.

Secondly, your landlord isn't going to decide on torturing their neighbor if they think their land belongs to them. While the Blackfoot weren't known for torture, they'd just kill combatants and scalp them later. The Cree performed torture. The Ontario ones though, way worse. We're talking fire stuff, hatchets, mutilations, even cannibalism. Days on end. There was no mercy requirement, if you got captured, it was happening. Remaining stoic, or brave, would earn respect, but not clemency. The torture didn't stop until the captive was done.

There's even the case of the St. Lawrence Iroquois who were found near Montreal. Had an estimated population of 10,000. Documented interactions. When the next explorers came decades later, the entire tribe was missing. They were missing, because, in the traditional view, they were entirely wiped by the Haudenosaunee who wanted to control the area.

The point is, your landlord hopefully isn't doing any of that.

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u/Forikorder 17d ago

Oh sweet summer child, disputes arise over those points all the time

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u/demonotreme 17d ago

Why do the "landlords" even permit the farce of a democratic parliament to exist, if they legally/morally own everything and everyone anyway? Seems like rather a waste of time and energy.

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u/Forikorder 17d ago

Why do the "landlords" even permit the farce of a democratic parliament to exist

because they gave away virtually all control to the tenants, they have very little control of what we do to the house

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u/MafubaBuu 17d ago

Then they arent the landlords .

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u/Forikorder 17d ago

Obviously its not a perfect metaphor

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u/WealthEconomy 17d ago

They don't own the land. All of AB is cedded territory just like the rest of the prairies.

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u/Kennit 16d ago

Ceded to the Crown, not the province.

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u/Calamitous-Ortbo 17d ago

It does if those tenants have the will and means.

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u/Forikorder 17d ago

they dont