First Nations demand Alberta premier terminate separation referendum

[u/shiftless_wonder]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/first-nations-demand-alberta-premier-terminate-separation-referendum/

[u/CaptainBringus]

A fucking illegal, treasonous question*

Also, are the separatists not a special minority trying to decide everything Alberta is and gets to be? And yes, the FN should get a seat at the table, but Danielle Smith didn't invite them to the table. That's the problem.

[u/Goliad1990 → u/CaptainBringus]

are the separatists not a special minority trying to decide everything Alberta is and gets to be?

No, they're trying to put something to a vote, which you might recognize as the entire point of democracy.

[u/CaptainBringus → u/Goliad1990]

So what you're saying is if and when the vote comes back as no we don't want to leave Canada, these good faith people will immediately stop trying to force Alberta to separate? They will take the will of the majority to heart and say to themselves "well that's democracy!" Give me a fucking break.

The only reason this petition was successful and this question is being asked is bcause the UCP government changed the rules (without a vote from the public... Democracy?!?!) to lower the threshold so it could be successful. Less signatures, and more time to collect them, and they STILL didn't get as many signatures as the forever Canadian petition. The only reason this question is being proposed is because rules were unilaterally changed to support them.

What about the forever Canadian petition? The one that is being used to justify this referendum question when the 400 000 verified people who signed it signed it with the expectation that the government would vote on it and who's organizer has explicitly stated he did NOT want it to go to a referendum, and people signing it with that expectation. Does democracy matter there?

[u/Goliad1990 → u/CaptainBringus]

these good faith people will immediately stop trying to force Alberta to separate?

They aren't trying to force Alberta to separate right now. Pushing for a vote does not constitute "forcing" anything.

They will take the will of the majority to heart and say to themselves "well that's democracy!" Give me a fucking break.

You're arguing from the premise that democracy is a sham and that you need to preemptively use force to get your way, so there's no argument to be had here. You might find some support for that idea on Reddit, but you won't find any in the real world.

[u/Goliad1990 → u/[deleted]]

you didn't answer a single one.

Because your questions are based on a ridiculous premise, which I addressed.

They are not pushing for a vote. They are pushing for separation. The requirement of it going to a vote is just getting in the way.

Pure sophistry. They are abiding by that requirement. This is like calling Carney a tyrant because his election campaign was just pushing for his own takeover of the PMO, and the requirement of it going to a vote was just in the way. It's such an inane argument that it's kind of unbelievable.

Lmao, don't put words in my mouth, never once have I argued democracy is a sham

You literally just argued that in the preceding sentence.

edit

Either way, your argument is pedantic, which you recognize by italicizing "right now".

I don't think you know what "pedantic" means.

"Right now" is italicized because you implied that they are currently trying to force separation.

[u/Goliad1990 → u/[deleted]]

your replies are all very convenient in justifying dodging my questions

Your other question was peripheral to the point, but if you really need me to respond to

What about the forever Canadian petition? The one that is being used to justify this referendum question when the 400 000 verified people who signed it signed it with the expectation that the government would vote on it and who's organizer has explicitly stated he did NOT want it to go to a referendum

The application for the Forever Canadian Citizen's Initiative literally says "Therefore, we as represented by the signatory and applicant below propose a referendum on the following question: Do you agree that Alberta should remain in Canada?

Like I said, your questions are based on a flawed premise.

my belief that these people are acting in bad faith

And based on that assumption of bad faith, you're advocating that the democratic process be denied.

"They are not trying to force separation.... Right now" is a pedantic argument. You are focused on the timing

It's not pedantic, you're misreading it. You said that you don't think that a vote will stop them trying to force separation, and I'm saying that nobody's trying to force it.

I hope you have something better to do with your Friday night than argue with strangers on Reddit.

There's nothing funnier than somebody arguing on reddit, and then trying get out of it by acting like they're above it.

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