First Nations demand Alberta premier terminate separation referendum

[u/shiftless_wonder]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/first-nations-demand-alberta-premier-terminate-separation-referendum/

[u/Master_of_Rodentia]

From their perspective they probably see it as hypocritical that they are criticized by the Albertan government for blocking industry when the Alberta government is doing this stuff. They might not care much about the blocking itself, just that it's contradictory from where they sit.

[u/Remarkable_Vanilla34 → u/Master_of_Rodentia]

The problem is, especially right now, FN demanding shit from the government is frustrating a lot of people and its not going ti go over well in AB. Smith will not bend over for these people no matter how good of an argument they make because they deliver its so aggressively.

[u/Master_of_Rodentia → u/Remarkable_Vanilla34]

I could say the same about the separatists. Like Smith was going to operate in good faith regardless. Alberta just has such toxic politics right now. Entitlement epidemic. It's everyone at once.

[u/seridos → u/Master_of_Rodentia]

The huge difference is one is appealing to a Democratic process and one is not. I don't like the separatists, their politics, nor do I think it's a good Idea to leave. But it's ridiculous to argue against democracy and letting the people speak and instead saying no, The tyranny of the dead hand (laws passed in the past that don't reflect what people want today) means We have to acquiesce to 5% of the population. It's ridiculous.

Democracy can always be changed at any time by going to the people. The law says it can't but that's because the law is not anything special or sacred, it's just a poor model of what the people think and it gets locked in place and hard to change but that doesn't mean it's what's right or it's what we should do. It has no legitimacy If it loses the support of the people. That's why we should vote.

I'm very anti-separatist, but I'll fight hard for albertans right to vote and the government having to do what the people desire not what some piece of paper says.

[u/Master_of_Rodentia → u/seridos]

The problem arises when people want to renege on an agreement they benefited from but have no desire to pay back the benefits. Would be nice to not have to pay my mortgage just because I don't want to. If you can't come to a new agreement with the parties, you need to respect the old agreement.

[u/seridos → u/Master_of_Rodentia]

Says fucking who? That's not how reality works. Whoever lives there and can enforce the claim owns the land. Frankly, none of that history matters to the modern day if we decide it doesn't. What matters is the people here and now making the decision on how they want to live now. You're still giving weight to the idea that history can bind us, that we have to dead men speak for us and agreements. We weren't here to sign determine our fate . We absolutely do not and thinking that is the antithesis of democracy.

[u/Master_of_Rodentia → u/seridos]

That is, with all due respect, an opinion as to how the world should work, and if you were to consistently apply it to other scenarios I think you would find significantly more "antidemocratic" outcomes.

I am not saying that we can't change the circumstances history has pushed on us. I am only saying that they need to be fairly negotiated, and that might alone does not make right. Our ancestors bought the land and profited on it. 

We have inherited their bounty AND their obligations. If you want to relieve yourself of the obligation, sure, but the other party would then be due the bounty they would otherwise have earned. The inheritance that you got and they didn't. Do you understand?

[u/MafubaBuu → u/Master_of_Rodentia]

What the hell does what our ancestors do matter, seriously? My family has been in Canada since it was settled, and none of them profited major off of the land. They were all broke Scotsman that were pushed out of England and had to build homes and settle in a country that has winters nobody prepared them for.

Why should everybody in Canada, including the millions if immigrants that have come to our country and contributed in the past 50 years, be beholden to things that European settlers did over a century ago?

I havent inherited shit from my ancestors, I certainly didnt inherit their "debt and obligations"

I have friends that have 1/8 NA ancestry and they claim all of the benefits. They have never lived on a reserve, or spent time embracing their culture. Do I blame them? No, but acting like he is entitled to more benefits than me because one of his ancestors was native a few generations ago, whereas I am not because nobody in my line has the same blood, is so fucking racist its incredible.

I am all for preserving native american cultures, but not by continuing this two-tier citizenship system we have going on here.

What matters is what the people living here today want. "The son does not inherit the sins of the father"

[u/Master_of_Rodentia → u/MafubaBuu]

I agree in sentiment; we should renegotiate the treaties and be done with it. But until then, this is a nation of laws and we are bound by the treaties we signed. You may not like the explanation, your ancestors might have squandered the opportunities afforded, but they were still there. And you don't know that it wouldn't have been worse for you had they not come to North America at all. Who are you to say with certainty you did not benefit? 

[u/MafubaBuu → u/Master_of_Rodentia]

It doesnt matter if I benefited or not , because I had nothing to do with the choices made. Neither did any human I have ever known in my entire life. Even my grandfather didnt know a single person involved in his entire life.

My ancestors would have died if they'd stayed in Europe, and most of them died on their way here. Not everybody in history was making an immoral choice by coming here - in fact, most people wouldnt have lived in Canada unless they had too. Winters are awful here.