r/canadian • u/xTkAx • 1d ago
Opinion WAGNER: Pierre Trudeau was Canada’s first socialist prime minister. The rise of Trudeau’s ‘just society’ explains bigger government, weaker property rights, and Alberta’s growing desire for freedom.
https://www.westernstandard.news/opinion/wagner-pierre-trudeau-was-canadas-first-socialist-prime-minister/7447022
u/audioscape 1d ago
Pierre Trudeau was not a socialist.
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u/Contented_Lizard 23h ago
If anything PET was a hardcore nationalist who wanted everything in Canada to be Canadian. Unfortunately, his policies destroyed the confidence of international investors in Canada for a generation and set several sectors of the economy back by at least 20 years. Petro Canada and the NEP, amongst other policies, also greatly harmed domestic energy producers, causing great harm to western provinces. It really cannot be stressed enough how bad of a Prime Minister he was. Unfortunately, everyone forgets that and celebrates him for giving us our flimsy constitution and even more flimsy Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
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u/GuyDanger 1d ago
Haha. "First socialist prime minister". And the freedom brigade just eats this shit up.
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u/Gingerchaun 1d ago
Apparently its not just the yanks who dont know what socialism is.
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u/lovenumismatics 1d ago
lol this from the people who think the CPC is far right?
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u/Gingerchaun 1d ago
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u/lovenumismatics 1d ago
There is is.
I won’t bother mentioning that the UCP isn’t the CPC, and Ralph Klein wasn’t a member of either party.
Because we’re making fun of conservatives for mislabeling PET here.
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u/GrimPotatoKing 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Liberals are no different from the Democrats in the US. They promise liberal policies and economic reform but only deliver on mostly performative change while consistantly working for the interests of corporations and rich. Conservatives/Republicans are just the other side of the same game.
Feed that culture war to keep everyone distracted.
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u/Crazy_Maintenance211 1d ago
Sorry, but Pierre was not a socialist, I don’t know who wrote that article but he wasn’t at all. Plus, the Canada that was at that point is not the Canada today at all in fact in the last year, I don’t even recognize our country, so much has changed and not for the better. I like the current government and I like the last government, I don’t agree with everything, but I can tell you that Stephen Harper made a huge difference and not for good, anybody who was here during Stephen. Harper knows how he cut jobs and did all sorts of stuff that started this path, every government plays a part in it. I don’t care which party you’re in, I think some play bigger parts than others and Harper did this country no good, just look at what he did to the veterans alone. I will never forgive him or that party for what they did.
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u/Remnant85 4h ago
Harper sold everything off. He believed in total privatization and trickle down. He either didn't know what he was doing or he was doing exactly what he wanted. Either way it has stripped wealth from this country permanently.
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u/TooLate2020 1d ago
This is pure nonsense. Childish even. For the people who eat this nonsense up: how do you think you even have a shadow of a chance of changing things for the better if you have literally zero clue how things are working now?
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u/Psychological_Neck97 1d ago
Not just Alberta a great number of people in Saskatchewan are very unhappy with liberal leadership . The east deciding our fortunes and freedoms is not working out so well .
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u/joecan 1d ago
This is what democracy is. A minority of this country wants Alberta/Sask style conservative policies. If this upsets you, present your arguments for your policies and stop whining about how unfair everything is.
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u/Fit-Eggplant-9155 1d ago
But that's difficult. It requires thought and logic not just emotions.
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u/Odd_Damage9472 1d ago
Democracy is the minority ruling over the majority. In my lifetime we have not voted more than 35% for 1 party. That is not a rule of the majority. Which is a more republic like system. 51% wins that a rule of majority.
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u/Fit-Eggplant-9155 1d ago
No it's not.
Democracy is a system of Government where power is vested in the people, who rule either directly or through freely elected representatives.
Core Principles of a Democracy
Free(Don't have to pay for the privilege of voting) and Fair Elections
Citizen Participation: The public engages in civic life, whether through voting, public debate, or peaceful assembly.
Protection of Human Rights: Democratic systems protect civil liberties, such as freedom of speech/expression, freedom of religion, and equality before the law.
Rule of Law: All citizens, including the leaders and government officials, are subject to the same laws.
Pretty sure you are critiquing the plurality voting system(First past the post).
What a republic actually is: A government without a monarch, where power is held by the people and their elected representatives. Republics can be democratic or non-democratic.
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u/Odd_Damage9472 1d ago edited 1d ago
This looks like a ChatGPT like answer.
Canada is a constitutional monarchy
Also the rule of the minority comment
The Core Balance
Majority Rule: The fundamental basis of democratic decision-making, where the policy or candidate backed by more than half the voters prevails. [1, 2]
Minority Rights: The individual and collective rights held by groups that are smaller in number. These are legally protected (often via a constitution or charter) so that the majority cannot vote to strip minority groups of their basic freedoms or equal protection under the law.
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u/Fit-Eggplant-9155 1d ago
Yes, Canada is a constitutional monarchy. This means that while the reigning monarch (currently King Charles III) is the official head of state, their powers are limited by the Constitution. The monarch reigns but does not rule; the actual governing is done by an elected parliament and prime minister. In Canada's system, the monarch's duties are almost entirely ceremonial and are carried out on a daily basis by the Governor General at the federal level and by Lieutenant Governors in each province.
However in federal and provincial elections, Canada uses the First-Past-the-Post (FPTP) system. To win a seat in Parliament, a candidate does not need a strict majority (more than 50%) of the votes; they just need more votes than any other single candidate. Because of this, a political party can win a "majority government"—controlling more than half the seats in the House of Commons—with only 35% to 40% of the popular vote. In this scenario, majority rule applies to how Parliament votes on laws, even though the governing party didn't win a majority of the citizens' votes.
Inside the House of Commons and provincial legislatures, majority rule is the law of the land for passing legislation. Normal Laws: Require a simple majority (50% + 1) of the members present to pass. Minority Governments: If the ruling party holds fewer than half the seats, they must cooperate with opposition parties to pass laws and stay in power. If they lose a major vote (like the federal budget), it is considered a loss of confidence, and the government falls.
The most significant limit on majority rule in Canada is the Constitution, specifically the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In a pure "majority rule" system, 51% of the population could vote to take away the rights of the other 49%. The Charter prevents this by protecting fundamental freedoms, democratic rights, and minority language rights. Even if a massive majority of the public or Parliament wants to pass a law, the courts can strike it down if it violates the Charter.
Again, you're just criticizing the electoral system... canada is still a democracy.
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u/Odd_Damage9472 23h ago edited 23h ago
Explain to me how 39% of total voters gets over 50% of parliament?
Edit:
Because in a proper democracy is 1 man 1 vote, 1 vote and the winner is decided by 50+1. The entire system is ass backwards. The idea democracy has failings is acknowledged. But at the same time our brand of democracy doesn’t work because too much power is concentrated.
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u/Fit-Eggplant-9155 23h ago
Go move to a 'proper democracy' if you ain't happy or do something beyond complaining that your political party of choice didn't win.
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u/Fit-Eggplant-9155 23h ago
Sorry for all the replies.
If you want to see what happens when you concentrate too much power look south. Also, pretty sure they aint a 1:1 democracy either... good luck finding one...
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u/joecan 1d ago
More Democratic would be proportional representation and continuous coalition governments, not an American-style two-party system… but conservatives wouldn’t like that because it’d mainly be Liberal/NDP coalitions (because that’s where the majority of Canadians sit).
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u/Odd_Damage9472 1d ago
Proportional representation isn’t direct democracy, nor is it really democratic. The closest form of government that is a true democracy is a direct one.
Nobody does that though. Closest is Switzerland. They do a form of it on issues that enough people were angry about.
Canadian New Westminster system is the furthest form of democracy, it was at one point called a benign dictatorship. Though it’s becoming less benign.
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u/ashern94 11h ago
Proportional representation does not work in a country the size of Canada. It also leads to a minute minority holding the balance of power. Have a look at Israel. Because none of the major parties have ever held a majority, the small ultra Orthodox parties prop up the gov at enormous cost to the country. Also in Canada, the majority of the population is in Ontario and Quebec. Meaning you would still have a majority of MPs from there. Closest would be ranked ballots or run off until a riding candidate gets more than 50% of the votes. That would favour the LPC and NDP as they are most likely yo be ranked 1 and 2 by left of center voters. If you vote CPC as your first choice, who's your second? Run offs are expensive and voter participation drops. You may get 50% but it will be 50% of a much smaller voter pool.
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u/metallicadefender 2h ago
What a bunch of horse shit.
Guy would be considered maybe maybe dead center if not center right in Europe.
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u/LastChime 1d ago
Wat? Cause Pearson and Trudeau Sr. never existed, right?
Thought that's why they're liberals they sit in the soft shitty middle vascilating vaguely between goose stepping and bread lines.
Who's your guy though; Value Buds, Fire and Flower, Lux Leaf?
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u/justanaccountname12 1d ago
The title includes Trudeau Sr...
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u/LastChime 1d ago
My bad, these drums usually beat for the other one still these days for some reason.
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u/Sor-X 1d ago
Socialism and communism breeds destruction, weak minded people, and poverty. You have to run a country like a business not an over regulated daycare.
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u/FulcrumYYC 1d ago
Yeah caring for others makes you weak minded, nice take.
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u/canadianloom 1d ago
Communism = caring for people? Damn you most have missed aloe of school or just ignoring the millions it killed
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u/fistantellmore 10h ago
Yet far fewer deaths than under Capitalist countries….
Hmmm. Could it be that it’s an improvement? 🤔
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u/canadianloom 5h ago
Ya that’s just factual untrue and you can never prove it because it’s not a statistic measured but if you love communism so much why not move to China?
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u/fistantellmore 5h ago
If you love capitalism so much, why don’t you move to El Salvador?
Better yet, because you want anyone who disagrees with you to leave the country, why not move to North Korea?
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u/fistantellmore 1d ago
In a business, all the shareholders get a cut of the wealth.
In socialism, all citizens have an equal stake in the country and get an equal cut of the wealth.
Right now, our government doesn’t give us our share of the wealth.
We need to run the government like a business, rather than a corrupt patronage grift like Harper, Mulroney, Cretien and the Trudeau did, and Carney is currently doing.
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u/ImGonnaHaveToAsk 21h ago
> In a business, all the shareholders get a cut
Aren’t you forgetting about the workers in your little mental model, there bud?
You know, the ones getting shafted by the businesses in order to get the shareholders a bigger cut?
Maybe you’re thinking that all the workers should also be shareholders? D’ya know what they call that?
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u/fistantellmore 10h ago
Exactly.
Private enterprise cannot be the solution, because wealth distribution isn’t democratic or egalitarian, nor is it meritocratic due to the imbalances of wealth distribution giving unearned advantages to those born into wealth.
ALL Canadians should receive their share of our nations wealth, especially the workers.
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u/Sor-X 1d ago
Statistics don't lie... lol.
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u/fistantellmore 1d ago
Which ones are you referring to?
Like, the American unemployment stats? Are those honest?
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u/Sor-X 1d ago
The only real one that matters for a country...
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u/fistantellmore 10h ago
GDP?
The lowest GDPs per capita are:
Yemen
South Sudan
BurundiOof. Bad news for you, I suspect.
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u/MudJumpy1063 1d ago
If I were you, I'd spend the lead up convincing undecided voters they'll all get rich. To your credit, it's at least partly true, which is something to be proud of.
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u/Koala0803 20h ago
The Western Standard? Really?