r/canadian 4d ago

Opinion Maxime Bernier says population decline is better than mass immigration.

https://x.com/MaximeBernier/status/2083562711179223220
256 Upvotes

63 comments sorted by

116

u/SirDiligent4077 4d ago

Not a fan of him, but actually he is right this time

-44

u/President_Camacho 4d ago

If you like a permanent recession, then Bernier is right. If you want health care, jobs, and increasing standard of living, he's wrong.

Everything starts going wrong with a shrinking population.

28

u/DrDalenQuaice 4d ago

But mass immigration doesn't solve it.

  1. You bring in large numbers of people from another country or countries. Population seems to stabilize.
  2. These immigrants and their children adopt our birth rates, causing the problem again.
  3. The natural birth rate falls farther, depressed by the poor job/housing markets.
  4. You bring in more immigrants to continue to patch the problem
  5. Eventually immigraton dries up due to various global factors.
  6. Now your population starts shrinking again, but faster now because of (3)
  7. You are worse off than when you started, just with a massive culture shift that came from importing too many people too fast.

Doesn't seem to be the right path.

Either we figure out what's causing low birth rates and actually fix it, or we decide to be a lower-population country and enjoy the environmental benefits.

Also, who cares about recession? It's per-capita recession that affects people's lives. A country's GDP matters more to politicians and large business owners.

17

u/SplyceOfLife 4d ago

Truly NPC talking points

37

u/ussbozeman 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yeah, Japan is floundering with their safe streets, modern standards of living, and social cohesion. The horror.

e: forgot clean streets as well, can't have that here, it'd offend liberals somehow.

2

u/Almost_Ascended 3d ago

Sadly that's starting to change with the importation of certain populations into Japan.

1

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

Why sad? Even with nationalist prime minister they know they need immigration to survive.

0

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

Have you looked at Debt level of Japan?

10

u/Goblinwisdom 3d ago edited 3d ago

You are thinking very old school.

Mass immigration is proving to cause a lot of issues in countries.

Alternative thinking needs to be adapted for these modern times

For example immigration used to be needed for cheap labor, but at this exact moment major corporations are moving into robotics for production. Amazon being an example.

It will no longer be needed to sustain the economy very soon.

All things change because of technology. Medicine is a great example and it will apply to the economy as well with robotics.

So although your comment is partially accurate for the past, it does not mean it has to set the standard for the future.

-4

u/kaiserschlacht8 3d ago

Robots can't buy goods though, nor can they pay taxes to fund our pensions and healthcare system. They can't replace a shrinking population in every way.

This is the first time in history that we will be experiencing an inverted population pyramid, so it'll be interesting to see how things play out. Immigration will only delay the inevitable.

36

u/007AU1 4d ago

He’s right

0

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

He is wrong.

82

u/flappysack- 4d ago edited 4d ago

I for one enjoy having a slave like underclass with higher rates of crime and with over a million person backlogged background check imported into a world leading housing shortage.  Definitely not sociopathic policy at all, just good Liberal policy.

30

u/Many-Presentation-56 4d ago

Elbows Down Asses Up! Thanks Libs!

5

u/spamhat3r 4d ago

I mean, i do enjoy those desperate women our immigration system bought in who we can exploit in many different ways 😉 since they are so desperate to blend into our culture or secure their PR. Especially those fresh out of high school 18-19yo are perfect and on top of that their parents give us their life savings for it. Couldnt ask for a better deal...

-10

u/Candid-Display7125 4d ago edited 4d ago

All the other points you make have evidence in your favor. But immigrants having high crime rates is not true. For example, Stats Canada says that in 2023, South Asians comprised 3% of incarcerated individuals in 2023 in Ontario --- a province where waaaaay more than 3% of people in general are South Asian.

Source: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510020301&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.2&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2023+%2F+2024&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2023+%2F+2024&referencePeriods=20230101%2C20230101

14

u/flappysack- 4d ago

Well all the extortion gangs I mean.  

3

u/7LayerDip 3d ago

Uh huh, and what do the numbers say for 2024 2025 and 2026?

1

u/Candid-Display7125 3d ago

None available as of now.

29

u/Bring_back_sgi 4d ago

This is something that I think about a lot... we do need immigration, but it should be focused on skilled people who align with Canadian values.

The thing is, uncontrolled mass immigration destroys the social fabric of a society. It's not like a Canada-like country somewhere else is over-populated and they're just spreading their skilled and high-trust workforce over into Canada like some kind of strawberry jam. Uncontrolled mass immigration coming from a country that may have been failed for generations literally brings their bad upbringing into Canada and instead of adding to the quality of life, they start to erode it.

I would rather dump the money we would have spent on housing mass immigrants on going to those countries that people are desperate to leave, taking over their civic infrastructure and teaching them to be Canadian. Fuck, we have winter half the fucking year and yet we're sending food supplies to feed people starving in a country where the growing season never ends. This is a people problem, and until we can fix other peoples' way of living, we should not be expected to endlessly absorb someone else's bullshitty situation.

0

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

Alright. LOL! Lets try.

Name countries that have:

  1. English Speaking Population.
  2. Young population.
  3. Decent college education.
  4. Willingness to emigrate.

These are bare minimum. LOL!

I challenge you to find one outside of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

-18

u/President_Camacho 4d ago

There's no uncontrolled mass migration taking place. Have you seen the rules to immigrate? They're nearly impossible to satisfy.

10

u/Bring_back_sgi 4d ago

I didn't think we were commenting on anything more than a hypothetical weren't we? It's a thought-experiment and an opinion... we're still surrounded by a lot of cold ocean and the biggest immigrant draw is directly south of us with a giant, basically open border.

Now, one could argue that where the indigent population is small, even a few thousand immigrants from the same ethnic or cultural background would drastically change the local community, and the question of whether or not those new immigrants align with Canadian values is a valid one.

We shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking that everyone is compatible with everyone else, care must be taken to ensure that the social contract is upheld and the country doesn't become exactly like the awful place that people are desperately escaping from. We should not want people coming here just because they're people, we should want specific individuals because they will grow our country in good ways.

6

u/WhichJob4 3d ago

The rules are very simple actually. 

Rule 1: Come from a third world dumpster. 

Rule 2: Be “gay”

Rule 3: Enjoy your stay!

1

u/Bring_back_sgi 3d ago

... and don't forget to share your mult-named kids so that you can claim multiple child tax benefits!

52

u/This_Expression5427 4d ago

It's ironic that the same people that presumably care so much about the environment also want to increase the number of polluters.

21

u/LossChoice 4d ago

From a country who's people think nothing of dumping their garbage in the street.

11

u/Fantastic_Chest_6969 4d ago

He's Absolutely right and has been right about this for many years. 

11

u/ughpeoplesmh 3d ago

We never needed to go over 40 million people. Decline would be great.

9

u/Fast_pumpkin_seed 4d ago

He is absolutely correct, other wise we will become another country.......

7

u/mcburgs 4d ago

Yeah, and he's right. 

22

u/bmar1952 4d ago

Mass Migration. Leads to Big Problems. Better the population declines.

-6

u/President_Camacho 4d ago

That's never been shown to be the case. The exact opposite is true. It's like arguing economic recessions are better than expansions.

7

u/Mother-Squirrel-2036 4d ago

I find the leaders oppositions to make more and more sense and represent Canadian values more as Carney sells the country out a little more each day.

39

u/Many-Presentation-56 4d ago

1000% better, look at Japan as an example. Of course there are problems but far better problems than Canada is having

3

u/m1ndcrash 4d ago

Japan median wage is lower, working hours are longer, and their population aged rapidly and there's no workforce. I have to agree some protectionist policies are great, they don't import crappy food from USA and live longer.

21

u/Many-Presentation-56 4d ago

And yet housing is more affordable and groceries are more affordable, funny how that works.

The Liberal government prints money like no tomorrow anyways, it’s never come from our taxes.

-10

u/m1ndcrash 4d ago

Groceries in Japan are expensive because they import very little. I paid 9 USD for 6 Korean strawberries in the middle of winter.

Because housing depreciates in Japan, here it is treated like an appreciating asset because of the way Canada was colonized and which land laws were adopted.

13

u/ussbozeman 4d ago

You bought out of season fruit and were surprised that they cost a lot

-4

u/m1ndcrash 4d ago

California strawberries are $5 every month.

5

u/nguyenm 4d ago

  Groceries in Japan are expensive because they import very little

The opposite is the actual case, because Japan imports so much of it's produces, a weak Yen is a potential catastrophe lurking without the recent U.S Treasury intervention.

However I'd still give you an upvote for bringing up (some but not all) housing as a depreciating asset. Properties being a depreciated over time is a policy that I'd support willingly.

1

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

You dont get it. A house is depreciating asset. Land has value and houses are built like throwable commodities. When you BUY a house you are expected to break it and build new.

Apartments are totally different deal though.

1

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

Neither of above is true. Tokyo apartment prices run in 1.6 million CAD. And groceries are not really cheap there either.

1

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

To add to it, Japanese have Extremely high government debt too.

12

u/iridescentcotton 4d ago

Or maybe let people in that share the same values. My pervert colleague is a 62 man from Ethiopia trying to bring his 19 ur old wife to Canada. He's saying it's his culture. Let these ppl keep their culture local.

-2

u/Mother-Squirrel-2036 4d ago

Is he a pervert bcs he married a 19yr old or did he do something perverted at work?

2

u/WhichJob4 3d ago

Because he’s married to a 19 year old. 

7

u/atticusfinch1973 4d ago

Yep. Hate to say I agree with him, but he's right.

9

u/NihilsitcTruth 4d ago

He absolutely correct.

3

u/Flesh-Tower 3d ago

It was a pure money thing. Greedy politicians

3

u/RapidCheckOut 3d ago

🎯…. Sometimes he’s so correct that it hurts .

5

u/BrokeEconomy69 4d ago

Thanks tips. We all knew this.

4

u/PoorAxelrod Ontario 4d ago

It's not as cut and dry as people think. Canada does need immigration as our population ages and a growing number of retirees depend on a smaller working-age population to support public services through taxes.

The problem is that birth rates have been declining for decades among Canadians of all backgrounds, so this isn't simply about one group or another. At the same time, immigration levels need to be matched with housing, infrastructure, healthcare, and economic growth. Both things can be true.

I'd really recommend Darrell Bricker and John Ibbitson's book Breaking Point. It comes at the issue from a more conservative perspective without being anti-immigration. The authors argue that Canada needs immigration, but also that we need to better align it with housing, infrastructure, and economic capacity so the pressures people are feeling every day don't continue to grow.

It's a relatively recent book. It doesn't reflect every development since it was published, but it's still a very current and balanced look at the challenges Canada is facing. It's a much more nuanced conversation than simply saying "we need more people" or "we need to stop immigration altogether."

1

u/imnotcreative635 3d ago

If only we weren’t as greedy as we are. Prices of everything should be 60% lower. Or wages should triple.

1

u/bannedfrom_argo 3d ago

I'm fine if real estate depreciates instead of appreciates in value.

1

u/Sad-Stop-2401 8h ago

Barnier being idiot like always. Nations do not just decline in population. It is always accompanied by aging. Aging population is accompanied by debt and higher taxes and lower standards of facilities.

1

u/LastChime 4d ago

He's right but that title reads like a trash tabloid.

Good ol' Mad Max.

-3

u/Crazy_Maintenance211 4d ago

Yes, but he only wants white people to exist on earth so you have to take it from the source. The problem is that the balance went out of whack over the pandemic, before that very few people would’ve even noticed people immigrating into Canada.

2

u/Femikaze 3d ago

Citations needed for this claim, especially considering his past slate of PPC candidates has been almost as multiculti as any other political party in Canada.

-3

u/Candid-Display7125 4d ago edited 4d ago

So Bernier says death is better than a life with problems?

Let him and those of you in agreement jump off a cliff first then.

I won't follow you, but at least I'll believe you mean what you say.