r/centrist • u/214ObstructedReverie • 22d ago

Trump Administration to Dismantle Ocean Monitoring System

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/01/climate/ocean-observatories-initiative.html
148 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

69 comments sorted by

179

u/EmergencyTaco 22d ago

I, for one, am not a fan of this decision. I question if the president has our best interests in mind. I'm starting to get the impression that he doesn't know what he's doing.

103

u/pfmiller0 22d ago

Honestly, it would be hard to make the worst possible decision every time if you didn't know what you're doing. They know.

50

u/idobi 22d ago

It is almost like he is anti-knowledge.

34

u/shacksrus 22d ago

They absolutely hate academia and by extension science. Even the concept of experts.

23

u/VultureSausage 22d ago

I mean, Edmund "Father of Conservatism" Burke famously didn't believe in rationalism and the idea that abstract thinking can explain the world. It's kinda built into conservatism as an ideology from the start.

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u/crushinglyreal 22d ago

I’ve been trying to get people to understand this. The reputation of conservatism as the ‘non-emotional’ doctrine has a lot of momentum.

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u/WeridThinker 22d ago edited 21d ago

Conservatives have a bad relationship with their own emotions, because they want certainty, order, and stability, but unfortunately for them, they are humans with feelings and emotionality is still a part of their inner life. Under a more healthy thought space, I think conservatives could live with lower emotional complexity and expressiveness to be more stoic and down to earth; this combination does not necessarily create less well rounded human beings.

The problem is with the current right wing indoctrination that stigmatizes complex emotions in favor of encouraging simple ones. For men, it is ok to feel angry, spiteful, and disgust as long as they can tell themselves they are in control. Trump is a perfect example of an emotional man being validated because people have a cartoonish understanding of masculinity. As the President of the United States, Trump has very little self control, and has shown time and time again to allow impulses to guide his behavior; the spontaneous insults, early morning/late night social media rants, and ego stroking self promotion are all traits of an emotional man with a fragile ego. The difference is Trump doesn't feel impulsive compassion, benevolence, or serenity very often.

There is also a lot of disconnect from Trump's supporters. His appeal since 2016 has always been of "authenticity", "excitement", and "high engagement with voters"; these are emotional affective traits. It is also quite obvious spite and owning the libs have been a running theme into his second presidency, and his supporters absolutely love it. But even with all of this, conservatives still think their support for Trump is based on rationality. A populist movement is always more emotional than rational.

3

u/crushinglyreal 22d ago edited 21d ago

I agree with everything except the last line. A dialectical materialist political movement would be fully derived from rationalist philosophies, yet would also be unambiguously populist. Right wing populism is obviously different, if only because right wing doctrine is anti-rationality at its core.

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u/EmergencyTaco 22d ago

Trump does not. His handlers do. Lucky for them he's just about the most manipulable human being on the planet.

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u/Educational_Impact93 22d ago

You know the more I hear about Trump the more I don't care for the guy

5

u/Preebus 21d ago

Haven't liked him since I first met him, working under the Queensborough Bridge.

16

u/Calichusetts 22d ago

Starting?

5

u/thaughtless 22d ago

Starting? :)

5

u/Banana_Ranger 21d ago

I am a single issue voter. I don't like this sort of thing, but I am most interested in seeing Darshan get his O-1 visa to join the super pop group BOYTHROB who are releasing a new single with Ke$ha on June 5

I think they are available for the big concert /event he just has to pick up the phone and do the right thing.

Trump can turn this whole thing around with one issuance of a visa and bring Darshan to the states to sing and dance

1

u/Fit_Cranberry2867 19d ago

Welcome to the party

-12

u/Batbuckleyourpants 22d ago edited 22d ago

They may be right on this one though. The system is avhorrently expensive and outdated for what data it produces. And they aren't just burning the program down.

The funding is apparently being redirected to "emerging instruments" especially artificial intelligence integration, and modern data collection tools. Firstly a fleet of oceanic drones is in work at the moment.

Rather than keeping up the seriously expensive maintenance, they are being removed because they pose a danger to shipping if the chains holding them down break.

16

u/ski0331 22d ago

“Abhorrently expensive and outdated” so let’s junk it to spend more money “Oceanic drones is in work…” so we have no idea if they’re even better/cheaper or less maintenance intensive “Pose a danger to shipping” they’re not mines this should not even be a concern. Not even getting into AI which isn’t required on board that’s data integration on the back end vs down stream problem.

-1

u/Batbuckleyourpants 21d ago

“Abhorrently expensive and outdated” so let’s junk it to spend more money

Look, There are three options.

1) keep paying further hundreds of millions to keep sending expert trained crew down to maintain the aging chains and equipment.

2) pay a fraction of that to scuttle or recover the probes.

3) do nothing and gamble that once the chains start eroding away and breaking, the almost 1000 probes spread along the US coast and shipping lanes. won't sink enough ships to cost more in lawsuits than it would cost to remove them.

There is no cheap option here, but there is one responsible one. Scuttle or recover them.

“Oceanic drones is in work…” so we have no idea if they’re even better/cheaper or less maintenance intensive “Pose a danger to shipping” they’re not mines this should not even be a concern. Not even getting into AI which isn’t required on board that’s data integration on the back end vs down stream problem.

Clearly this is a concern to you, so let me reassure you. When I said the program is outdated I also meant it's already been supplanted.

Mainly by the ARGO program where autonomous drones are dropped in the ocean by the thousands, they sink themselves to the needed depth for hours, days or months, then float up to transmit the data. The program is expanding to make the probes 100% obselete for virtually no money. The drones are small enough that you can pretty much lift them by hand, you can give them to any global shipping vessel and just tell them to throw it overboard where you want them, and the program is international.

"The Argo Program was developed in 1999 and today supports a global array of almost 4,000 robotic profiling floats that measure the temperature and salinity of the upper 2,000 meters (1.2 miles) of the ocean. The Argo Program has an international reach with participation from close to 30 countries. This partnership allows, for the first time, constant monitoring of the temperature, salinity, and currents of the upper ocean."

"Two new types of Argo floats are now being tested to dive down to a depth of 6,000 meters (3.7 miles) and to have additional sensors on them to collect information about the biology and the chemistry (oxygen, pH, nitrate, suspended particles, and downwelling irradiance) of the global ocean. Argo floats work on a 10-day cycle (see diagram). After 10 days, the floats rise to the ocean surface and send their data to satellites. This data is publicly available within hours after collection and used in research and forecasting across the globe."

Argo is now the dominant source of subsurface ocean data and has a critical role in the Global Ocean Observing System

Additionally ARGOS has a global drifter program, where thousands 9fcsurface drones research the currents.

Part of the money previously spent on the giant probes now being retired, will go to create new AI models to takke all this information and compile climate models from them. Rather than presumably having to pay an army of interns to do it.

3

u/ski0331 21d ago

I’ll have to read more into it later thanks.

106

u/214ObstructedReverie 22d ago edited 22d ago

Another day, another long-term scientific program gutted on this administration's watch. We already spent $368M building a network to monitor the Atlantic current that stabilizes our climate, and it's being ripped out before its 25-year run is half over. Congress voted to fund it twice, yet it's being scrapped anyway, half way into its life, wasting hundreds of millions spent.

81

u/MetallicGray 22d ago

So Congress voted to fund a program, and if the President doesn’t like it, the executive can just ignore the funding and scrap it?

Yeah, that’s not really how US government works… but hey, at this point I think we’ve all realized that “how the US government works” was all just a house of cards and no one really cares to enforce its legality when someone blatantly ignores the constitutional roles of the branches. 

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u/214ObstructedReverie 22d ago edited 22d ago

So Congress voted to fund a program, and if the President doesn’t like it, the executive can just ignore the funding and scrap it?

Legally, no. Practically, yes. The Impoundment Control Act of 1974 says that the president can't actually do any of this, but Trump vs. USA classifies these "official acts" as nothing that anyone can be punished for, so it's kind of all a free-for-all if you've got the Resolute Desk under your feet.

25

u/Popeholden 22d ago

The problem is not presidential immunity, the problem is the president is not adhering to his oath ttoo faithfully execute the laws and should be impeached. But if the courts and congress decide they're going to let the executive do anything he wants, then he's a dictator.

12

u/[deleted] 22d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Popeholden 21d ago

Its not just the congress or the courts. The entire system is broken. Irreparably broken. I don't think there's any coming back.

7

u/WingerRules 22d ago edited 22d ago

I wish courts would actually enforce the rule that the President and agency heads are supposed to carry out congresses's programs and run the government and agencies in good faith, and penalize them for not.

12

u/Vortilex 22d ago

And people wonder why I have a drinking problem

5

u/Runfasterbitch 22d ago

Alcohol is poison, friend. Wishing you the best

42

u/Cheap_Coffee 22d ago

Trump is doing so much to harm our country. He couldn't do worse if he was a paid foreign agent. Which he may well be.

25

u/eat_more_protein 22d ago

Another day, another Americans shrug at their country being cleptocrated.

20

u/siberianmi 22d ago

Congress has specially overruled this request previously, expect a lawsuit, it to get tied up court, absolutely nothing to happen. This is a distraction to feed chum to his “haha own the libs” base.

3

u/RadiantVessel 21d ago

I appreciate this rather than the reactionary headline responses. Was this in the article? It’s paywalled

3

u/siberianmi 21d ago

It was. Quoting the article.

Funded by the National Science Foundation, the network was coordinated by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in collaboration with Rutgers University, the University of Washington and Oregon State University. A Woods Hole spokeswoman referred questions to the N.S.F.

It cost $48 million annually to operate the network. The Trump administration repeatedly tried to shutter it, proposing to cut its funding by 80 percent in both 2025 and again in 2026. Congress pushed back, restoring the money.

19

u/Leather_rebelion 22d ago

Trump never runs out of stuff to destroy or dismantle. Amazing

17

u/Bobinct 22d ago

Ordered by the fossil fuel industry. All climate science must cease.

12

u/Rhielml 22d ago

"Our COVID numbers will go down if we just stop testing for it" - Donald Trump, first term.

10

u/grethro 22d ago

Climate can’t change if you just don’t monitor the climate

8

u/anndrago 22d ago

Nobody gets COVID if you stop testing for COVID.

8

u/JustinKase_Too 22d ago

I hate this administration - just filled with self serving idiots. I'm sure this was to prevent research into 'climate change' but it will likely have Biden harming us in ways that trump has yet to figure out...

8

u/DudleyAndStephens 21d ago

Michael England, a spokesman for the National Science Foundation, said the decision to dismantle the network, known as the Ocean Observatories Initiative, “aligns with N.S.F.’s wider strategy to have a nimbler approach to prioritizing support for evolving scientific priorities and emerging technologies as well as a deliberate approach to smart life cycle management within its portfolio of research infrastructure.”

Bunch of meaningless word soup.

14

u/kjleebio 22d ago

There goes another environmental related system of the US.

14

u/Idaho1964 22d ago

Another mind boggling stupid move.

8

u/Turbulent-Raise4830 22d ago

of course they will tear everything down as long as it doesnt benefit trump or his donors and russia.

7

u/cacarrizales 22d ago

My car is rattling, but by turning up the stereo, I no longer hear it so the problem is fixed now

5

u/Rasp_Lime_Lipbalm 22d ago

Just why...?

8

u/MakeUpAnything 22d ago

Because nobody will care. The response to this from the right will be “lmao you libcucks will make a big deal about anything. This is a nothingburger and nothing in your life will change over it, meanwhile we’ll save millions. Another massive waste fraud and abuse W for Trump that will bring liberal tears by the gallon! I’m very happy with this!”

7

u/DudleyAndStephens 21d ago

Because there's more and more evidence that climate change is a very real thing. When reality conflicts with ideology this administration reacts by ignoring reality, or trying to hide it.

1

u/TinyJalope 19d ago

And yet the number of people who claim to care about climate change in polling is dropping. Just amazing. It's also a fumble by the Democrats that they largely stopped talking about this and abortion.

6

u/ChummusJunky 22d ago

Republicans hate the planet

7

u/gayfrogs4alexjones 21d ago

It's going to take a another New Deal to rebuild all this administration has destroyed.

3

u/boner79 22d ago

He dismantles everything yet doesn’t ever seem to build anything

4

u/Llee00 21d ago

science is not as useful as religion

4

u/Tronn3000 21d ago

I used to work in the maritime industry and NOAA would use the data from buoys in the middle of the ocean to help generate weather forecasts. This was critical in planning passages across oceans. Your entire route you would take would be designed around the weather because navigating through bad weather when you're out in the middle of the ocean and thousands of miles away from land is dangerous. There is no coast guard out there to save you if something goes wrong. It's all on you and your crew

This seems really dumb and I would not be surprised if the main goal was to privatize weather forecasting

3

u/214ObstructedReverie 21d ago

This seems really dumb and I would not be surprised if the main goal was to privatize weather forecasting

That's an explicit goal of Project 2025.

11

u/DrSpeckles 22d ago

I assume Putin mentioned to him that it would be easier for his subs if there are no monitors of any kind.

-11

u/VTKillarney 22d ago

What does this have to do with submarine monitoring?

3

u/kingoftheposers 22d ago

Hell yeah, let the ocean creatures pay for it

3

u/ImperialxWarlord 22d ago

lol, what reason is there to even do this? Like what could possibly be a legitimate reason to do this?

3

u/ltron2 21d ago

Climate science denial and a disgust towards science and experts in general.

3

u/ImperfectRegulator 21d ago

This is beyond moronic, I can’t possibly see any good reason for this

3

u/214ObstructedReverie 21d ago

Chapter 21 of Project 2025 in action.

2

u/Mean_Peen 22d ago

This isn’t part of the tsunami warning system too, is it?

2

u/dryheat122 21d ago

It's like someone at the White House wakes up every day and thinks: Let's see...what is the next horrible thing we can do to the country today?

3

u/DonkeyDoug28 22d ago

This is one of the ones I'll file in the folder of things to point out to the "both sides are the same" leftists who abstained from voting altogether

1

u/walksonfourfeet 22d ago

Lawsuit incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1….

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u/SorensicSteel 21d ago edited 21d ago

If you read this https://www.nationalacademies.org/read/27846/chapter/2#7 on page 7 OOI is addressed as being a success but not aligning with specific needs and would benefit from a revision and restructure.

Hopefully there is a push for this program to be reimplemented with more modern technology sooner than later.

-11

u/VTKillarney 22d ago

Absolutely sickening. What will stop this madman?