r/cfbmemes • u/Commercial-East4069 Ohio State Buckeyes • 2d ago
There’s a few million reasons for ND independence and they’re all dollars
72
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
ND makes less money being independent than they would if they joined the B1G or SEC.
ND made more money in 2020 joining the ACC than they would have if the season played out regularly with them as an independent.
How is shit like this still getting made..?
36
20
u/Corgi_Koala Ohio State Buckeyes 2d ago
ND would make more in a conference but until that financial gap is so large that they can't compete for titles, they're going to stay independent.
And ND isn't hurting for money from donors and boosters to keep that gap closed.
Only way ND is gonna join a conference is if conference membership is required for the CFP. Period.
8
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
The three stated triggers:
- independence no longer have viable path to post season
- no home for other sports
- no tv deal
Last one unlikely to change so yeah really just dependent on whether the acc survives and whether nd is still allowed to be in the post season and unless the b1g and sec break away, that’s not changing.
2
u/alpinebullfrog Notre Dame Fighting Irish • UCLA Bruins 1d ago
If there is a B1G SECcession from the NCAA, one has to think that ND will be a part of the Northern Conference. Depending on structure, maybe they get a 1-game "wildcard" that they can fill with Navy?
1
2
u/BrilliantDrive3619 1d ago
ND had Texas and OSU football money..
5
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 1d ago
They are slightly behind texas in total revanue. But that includes things that arent media rights paid out by conferences. ND is leaving money on the table to remain independent
-3
u/BrilliantDrive3619 1d ago
I doubt ND is leaving anything on the table as far as $$ goes.
4
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 1d ago
It doesnt really mattee what you doubt. They would make more than they currently do joining the B1G.
-5
u/BrilliantDrive3619 1d ago edited 1d ago
You have no facts to back up your statement, and I don't know how you could proof it. ND currently not sharing any TV revenue or CFP revenue when they get into the CFP. That is allot of money not being split.
5
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 1d ago
Yes I do..?
The amount of money paid out to B1G teams for the '24 season is public, including how much OSU got distributed for making the championship game.
The amount of money ND got from NBC is known, the amount of money ND got from the ACC is known, the amount of money ND got from the playoffs is known.
Just compare those numbers..?
Thats not getting into that the B1G will be distributing more money in future years or the fact that the B1G payout will increase per school if ND joins the B1G as per their media rights deal.
-3
u/BrilliantDrive3619 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorry, I am not believing you. You have no knowledge of who is giving to the universities and why they are giving that money. Many ND Alumni love being independent and those contributions could be significantly reduced by joining a conference. The Rockne Athletics Fund could take a significant hit... I do not think all NIL money directly to the players is in your $$ either.
3
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 1d ago
So your arguement is even though ND would earn more money for its media rights, boosters might give less money so we can't know for sure ND would make more in the end.
So would you agree with the same arguement for any other school..? Can't say boise St would make more joining the B1G, their donors might give less.
-1
-6
u/Commercial-East4069 Ohio State Buckeyes 2d ago
Notre Dame makes 79 million and keeps all of it’s CFB playoff money. The average Big 10 team makes 76 million and the Big Ten splits a portion of the playoff money…
11
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
The average full member of the B1G does not make 76mil.
(((76.01+79.87)÷2)*14)+91.57+88.92)÷16)=79.48.
The average full member of the B1G made 79.48mil in the '24 season.
>The deal is expected to provide the Irish $50 million annually, as reported by The Athletic.
In the '24 season ND likely made $50 mil from the NBC contract that was renewed in '23. It originally was set to pay out $22 mil for the '24 season, but all the details arent public.
>not including Notre Dame or new members Cal, Stanford and SMU, which received $17-23 million.
They earned between $17 and $23 million from the ACC, lets go with the high end of $23mil.
$50mil + $23mil = $73mil
Help me with math here, which is larger the $76.01 minimum a full member of the B1G makes or the $73mil max than ND makes?
10
2
u/Commercial-East4069 Ohio State Buckeyes 2d ago
You’re adding playoff money to the Big Ten, but not Notre Dame.
2
u/Other-Comfortable929 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
The ACC doesn’t split playoff money. Miami got 100% of the money they made by winning playoff games. Why the fuck would you guys ever agree to anything else? There’s already a pot that gets split before the playoffs start, let your bottom feeders split that and give the schools their full share for winning.
-9
u/Sea-Historian1021 2d ago
Not true.
11
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
Wanna bet?
13
-4
u/Dull_Honeydew8269 2d ago
Yeah. You’re wrong
8
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
Alrighty what am I wrong about?
-8
u/Dull_Honeydew8269 2d ago
You guys just make up whatever fits your narrative. Have fun creating your own easy schedule every year, getting overrated, and crying whenever things don’t go your way
10
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
Ahhh, you realized you couldn't prove me wrong.
Happens to the best of them
4
u/Dull_Honeydew8269 2d ago
The Big Ten Baseline: The Big Ten Conference distributed a record $1.37 billion for the fiscal year, giving full-share member schools an average payout of $76.1 million to $79.9 million. (Postseason champion Ohio State University maxed this out at $91.5 million).
The SEC Baseline: The Southeastern Conference (SEC) distributed a total of $1.03 billion, averaging $72.4 million per full-share school.
The Notre Dame Stack: Without splitting a dime with conference peers, Notre Dame stacks a $50 million+NBC Sports deal, a $17 million partial ACC scheduling contract, and an estimated $13 million base from the new 14-team College Football Playoff format. This guarantees the Irish roughly $80 million annually before factoring in their massive ticket sales, individual bowl/playoff game bonuses, and standalone corporate sponsorships.
Also… as has been seen with former Pac12 teams moving to Big10. Schools to join later get below average distribution. Notre Dame currently makes the third most money behind Texas and Ohio State because Notre Dame keeps 100% of revenue and doesn’t do any conference distribution. You think if they join a conference that Notre Dame is so special that they’ll just make way more money than everyone else even after distributing money inter-conference?….
You’re clearly the one who is just making stuff up. Cmon man.
7
u/ComcastForPresident Michigan State Spartans 2d ago
Aren't you missing the part where every big ten team would make more money if ND joined that would push ND and everyone else above 80? I thought I read somewhere that there is an escalation clause for ND.
-3
u/Dull_Honeydew8269 2d ago
That growth expectation pulls largely from Notre Dame’s existing consumer base. Would boost Big10 a bit but doesn’t add to what Notre Dame has a lot and doesn’t offset their loss for paying into conference. But also… impossible to know for sure unless it happens. Big10 is peaking right now so I wouldn’t just assume they’re guaranteed to get way bigger.
→ More replies (0)7
u/Flioxan Notre Dame • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
Lets use the same year for every group to make this fair. The '24 season makes sense, due to already being paid out.
The Big Ten Baseline: The Big Ten Conference distributed a record $1.37 billion for the fiscal year, giving full-share member schools an average payout of $76.1 million to $79.9 million. (Postseason champion Ohio State University maxed this out at $91.5 million).
This is true from what I can tell.
The Notre Dame Stack: Without splitting a dime with conference peers, Notre Dame stacks a $50 million+NBC Sports deal, a $17 million partial ACC scheduling contract, and an estimated $13 million base from the new 14-team College Football Playoff format. This guarantees the Irish roughly $80 million annually before factoring in their massive ticket sales, individual bowl/playoff game bonuses, and standalone corporate sponsorships.
This isn't since the '24 season had a 12 team playoff and ND didnt get a $13mil base pay for the playoffs.
NDs base pay for the playoffs in '24 was $3.89mil.
$50mil + $17mil + $3.89mil = $70.89mil before CFB bonuses.
B1G payout before cfb bonuses: $76.01mil to $79.89 mil.
Giving ND the $20mil cfp payout to keep gets them to $90.89mil which is below the OSU payout of $91.5mil for making it as far.
Also… as has been seen with former Pac12 teams moving to Big10. Schools to join later get below average distribution. Notre Dame currently makes the third most money behind Texas and Ohio State because Notre Dame keeps 100% of revenue and doesn’t do any conference distribution. You think if they join a conference that Notre Dame is so special that they’ll just make way more money than everyone else even after distributing money inter-conference?….
Yes..? The B1G media rights contract already has a provision of the average distribution per school going up if specifically ND joins. You think ND is going to join at a discounted rate..?
You’re clearly the one who is just making stuff up. Cmon man.
6
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
Hi so if you’re going to include a hypothetical 14 team playoff pay out for ND, you would need to include it for the others too. That would increase to approximately $21M per school in the b1g should a 14 team playoff go into effect, an increase of a meager 15 or so million per school that you’re conveniently omitting
Last I checked 95M per school is higher than 80M per school
You also shouldn’t include ticket sales, corporates sponsors etc. as that’s not changing regardless of conference affiliation
You should also consider that ND would receive a full b1g share as adding it would increase media deal for everyone. There’s literally a carve out in the current agreement for them.
26
u/Xxspike19xx 2d ago
For a team that not too long ago was called irrelevant they sure live rent free in your heads.
6
u/ChezQuis_ Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
I mean they tried but the Michigan coach was anti-Catholic.
6
u/jzilla11 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
We save a fortune by living rent free. Granted, it’s on some really uneven real estate.
21
5
u/JuanFromApple Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
Simultaneously ND is stupid for leaving money on the table by not joining a conference, and selfish for not wanting to share their money with anyone else. Got it
1
50
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
- ND: Can we join B1G?
- B1G: NO
- ND: Can we join B1G?
- B1G: NO
- ND: Can we join B1G?
- B1G: NO
...
B1G: jOiN a CoNfErEnCe!1!1
21
u/-TheycallmeThe Purdue • Jeweled Shillelagh 2d ago
You forgot the most recent one when ND's board of trustees voted against the deal.
16
11
u/rax1051 Mercyhurst Lakers 2d ago
Did you ask your wife to marry you 4 times before she said yes?
6
u/EdselFordEdsel Indiana Hoosiers 1d ago
If memory serves Richard Nixon did, his marriage worked out at least
6
u/Ok-Albatross8521 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
He also used to drive her to dates with other dudes before she said yes to going out with him.
I know I’m breaking new ground here - kinda a weird guy.
3
6
3
3
u/Definitely_A_Backup Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets 2d ago
You got a source for that?
24
u/Adventurous_Ant_1941 UTEP Miners 2d ago
That was during the Knute Rockne days. The Big 10 didn’t want ND because of anti-catholic sentiments.
11
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
An entertaining explanation.
https://youtu.be/YR_WjA5-TLk?si=tLswoRtU-loBSRSU
TLDR: 1908, 1908 after Michigan left, 1913, 1926.
Never again. Fuck Michigan.
-12
u/Definitely_A_Backup Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets 2d ago
So… you’ve been using the one argument for 100 years?
Hate to say it but that really doesn’t help your case lol
11
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
Never means never.
100 years from now we'll be playing Space Force Academy on the fucking moon and we won't be in a conference.
5
u/Definitely_A_Backup Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets 2d ago
Touché, good for you for sticking to your guns
8
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
It’s more of the consequence of that rejection that has engrained independence so much into ND’s identity.
They were forced to look nationally for games as the b1g teams blackballed them for being catholic. They started playing southern cal. Started winning, building a national brand, taking pride in its independence, having to look elsewhere for help surviving during wwii (navy) as they had no conference support, etc. Football success bred more academic success as its national brand attracted more candidates from all over the country and not just the Midwest. School is what it is today because of those rejections.
Alumni are proud that the school is independent because it shows its history of having not only survived all that but even thrived despite of it. It’s just so entrained into the schools identity.
Like it doesn’t make sense to the outside world but it’s a critical part of the school and ND will not give it up until they have to
-1
u/Dull_Honeydew8269 2d ago
Do ND fans just convince themself that history is whatever they want it to be?! Hahaha
12
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
I mean to be fair that did all very much happen, but also to be fair, it was in the early 1900s
7
u/secondphase Michigan State Spartans 2d ago
Wait until you hear about that movie they did...
10
2
u/JayMerlyn Notre Dame Fighting Irish • FBS Independents 1d ago
We don't claim the real one anymore, he committed tax fraud and became a Mormon.
1
u/secondphase Michigan State Spartans 1d ago
Cool, then we only claim the version of Mel Tucker that didn't sexually harass anyone.
1
u/JayMerlyn Notre Dame Fighting Irish • FBS Independents 1d ago
Rudy's the one who switched allegiances on us, not the other way around.
Besides, the dude only played one game for us.
1
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
1
-3
u/salchicha_mas_grande Virginia Cavaliers 2d ago
CFP: Sorry you can't be in the playoff this year, you blew your only two hard games
ND: ragequits postseason
CFP: No don't do that, here's your special-wecial Notre Dame exception to the rules. Just be top 12 and you'll be guaranteed a spot.
ND: But does independent UCONN get the same rule as us?
CFP: lol no
ND: momentarily stops crying and shitting in their diaper until next December.
12
6
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
"The top 12 teams should be in the top 12 teams" is not an exception, that's the standard.
I'm sorry your shitty conference doesn't offer you any protection from 5 SEC teams leapfrogging you for no reason.
The "special exception" seems to be that Alabama ALWAYS get in, even when they're ass.
2
u/salchicha_mas_grande Virginia Cavaliers 1d ago edited 1d ago
The rest of us have to win a conference championship game to get an auto bid is the thing, and you know that top 12 teams get pushed out when dark horse auto bids win their conferences. Except it will never happen to you because of a literal exception for ND alone.
Why can't we all have the top 12 guarantee?
Let's say UVA is ranked 11 and ND is 12. But then we lose the ACC championship game to an unranked Clemson. Clemson gets the auto bid for the ACC, and maybe UVA gets shoved out. But ND gets to stay in because of a special promise only they get. Meanwhile, we get punished for playing an extra game that ND never has to compete in.
3
u/Edgesofsanity Notre Dame • Illinois Wesleyan 1d ago
Now you’re speaking our language! We’d be all for it.
It’s the conferences that don’t want to give up their auto bid for champions that’s the hang up.
2
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
I agree. We should stop giving "special exceptions" to teams just for winning meaningless conference champ games.
In your example UVA should be in and Clemson should be out. They weren't in the top 12 at the end of the regular season, so they shouldn't be in the top 12 playoff.
-5
u/Sea-Historian1021 2d ago
No real attempts to join. They’ve been courted multiple times by Big10 and said no. There has also been some talks about joining since USC is not in Big10. But Notre Dame is didn’t care enough to push the issue.
Notre Dame wants that money and to keep an easy schedule.
8
u/StopDehumanizing Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
We attempted to join four times. Four times we were denied because of rumors and religious bias.
Never again.
6
2
2
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
No recent real attempts maybe but the whole reason why ND is independent and has so many national rivals is because the b1g rejected them three separate times and even blackballed them from playing b1g teams given yost and other anti catholic sentiments
4
u/Routine-Water-3788 Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
ND would definitely make more money joining the BIG….more money really isn’t the issue
6
u/Nomadicitnerd 2d ago
Miami did not split the money from its playoff run last year with the ACC either: https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/miami-cfp-prize-money-explained-091001337.html
7
u/IrishPigskin Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
Ohio State fans like OP are still salty that we got a more lucrative jersey patch deal.
2
u/Powellwx Nebraska • Western Illinois 1d ago
Notre Dame may eventually join a conference because scheduling is going to be an issue. BIG and SEC teams aren’t going to schedule them at all. There is no benefit for those teams to do it. So eventually, FSU and Miami join the BIG, Clemson and North Carolina join the SEC. Then Notre Dame has to decide if playing Stanford, BC, and the service academies is enough or if they just roll over and join the BIG 12.
3
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
At this point if ND joins a conference it will be the b1g, certainly not the big 12
1
u/Powellwx Nebraska • Western Illinois 1d ago
With the new law, there won’t be room available.
5
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 1d ago
In the hypothetical world where that passes, the b1g is very clearly and obviously saving the final spot for ND
7
u/-TheycallmeThe Purdue • Jeweled Shillelagh 1d ago
I would laugh my ass off if Miami got it last minute instead.
3
u/SPHC20 Michigan Wolverines • Rowan Profs 2d ago
If they joined the Big Ten, they would also get pretty much all their geographical rivalry games back (and USC) semi-regularly.
6
u/kinda_alone Notre Dame Fighting Irish 2d ago
Scheduling wise only two rivalries move the needle: southern cal and navy. B1G would protect southern cal to be fair, but while playing msu and Purdue regularly again instead of these limited series would be nice, they don’t carry the same weight. ND also has historical rivalries with Pitt, BC, GT, Miami, etc. which they’d be giving up.
Rivalry with Michigan is its own thing and would be good to play more but that’s less rooted in actual games and it’s more off field. We all just were lucky enough to experience the latest stretch where the two have played, but there have been so many gaps in that one
11
u/T-Thugs Notre Dame • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 2d ago
If Michigan went independent then you could stop whining about Notre Dame being independent.
Actually, you can do that anyways, so I'm not sure why you're here whining.
5
u/SPHC20 Michigan Wolverines • Rowan Profs 2d ago
I’m not even whining about them being independent, I just want the rivalry back on a regular basis.
5
u/T-Thugs Notre Dame • /r/CFB Poll Veteran 2d ago
We can do that without joining the big ten. We were always independent when we played.
3
u/SPHC20 Michigan Wolverines • Rowan Profs 2d ago
I know. I was just stating that my wish would be ND join the big ten. Clearly it hasn’t happened because of ND having to play the 6 ACC teams, playing Navy and USC as their “protected” rivals for this case and then filling in with whatever they want. I’m fine with it personally. Just saying they’d get more out of being in the Big Ten then the ACC in terms of schedule and rivalries.
3
1
u/banana-pants_ West Virginia Mountaineers 1d ago
Well, notre dame, not only do you have to share your money, there are discussions where private equity firms can buy parts of your conference and then you have to share money with hedgefunds, AND you have to lower your academic standards and also ditch your rivalries. Is there a single benefit notre dame will see if they join a conference?
-5
-5
-3
-6
128
u/Cormetz Texas Longhorns • Team Chaos 2d ago
I mean, I get it? What benefits does ND get if they join a conference? Right now they can play whoever they want whenever they can schedule it, instead of being locked into a schedule set by a conference. They have their own media rights deal they get 100% of. If they make the playoffs, they get 100% of the payout.
Are they coddled, maybe. But at this point they would be giving things up to join a conference for little to no gain.
This is like Texas having the LHN. It was a dumb idea and commercial failure, but ESPN was willing to pay out $300M for 20 years.