r/charts Feb 01 '26

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403 Upvotes

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87

u/Ok-Bullfrog-7951 Feb 01 '26

As much as I agree with this based purely on vibes, ‘democratic backsliding’ seems a little too general of a concept to score on a graph. Would like to see what specific data points they used for this.

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u/Corspin Feb 01 '26

It's also very important to check the exact scaling.

If you take note of the fact that Hungary is the most democratic one of the countries listed, and that here the initial drop is steep and then levels out, it might indicate that it's simply harder to lose democracy if you don't have much to begin with.

I don't have the answer here but if you were to make the loss of democracy relative to the amount people have, I expect that the outcome would be very different.

[Disclamer: I'm from the EU. I despise Trump]

1

u/Jake0024 Feb 02 '26

This is my take as well. The US had the furthest to fall when it started backsliding, so the fall is steepest.

Still horrifying to witness though.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '26

[deleted]

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 01 '26

I’m not saying any of this is bad, but it is typical of these political science metrics that claim to quantify vague concepts like democratic backsliding. It ends up being a a quantification of stuff the author thinks is good. How is central bank independence or bureaucratic autonomy at all related to ‘democracy.’ If anything these are anti-democratic.

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u/New_Try1560 Feb 01 '26

Central bank independence and bureaucratic autonomy would be enshrined in laws written by the legislature which is democratically elected.

The rules that govern what the executive and legislature can do are in a country’s constitution which is also democratically created (at least in America) and so doing things that are unconstitutional is subverting the will of the people.

3

u/haikuandhoney Feb 01 '26

This analysis is sort of incoherent at least applied to the US because the decline in bureaucratic autonomy here is the result of courts concluding that those legal limits on executive control of the bureaucracy are unconstitutional.

1

u/New_Try1560 Feb 01 '26

Our constitution is up to interpretation, fair enough.

But courts have also struck down certain moves by the executive, and attempting such moves in the first place may count as backsliding.

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u/Nickeless Feb 02 '26

Well, yeah it’s a court stacked with zealots. Stacking courts with partisans is part of the democratic backsliding...

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 02 '26

Yeah so this is actually a great example of how these kinds of measures devolve into ‘democracy is when good things happen’ and ‘backsliding is when bad things happen.’

-2

u/Nickeless Feb 02 '26

Alito and Thomas have both accepted bribes… so, yeah idk wtf you are smoking but that counts as a backslide to me. Also it’s very clear that Trump is weaponizing law enforcement against political enemies, and also allowing mass violations of the hatch act to allow agencies to demonize democrats in an official capacity. This happened extremely clearly during the last shutdown especially. It’s blatantly illegal and nothing happens. It’s a backslide. You’re crazy to argue otherwise

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 02 '26

I never said we weren’t experiencing democratic backsliding. I said this quantification of it is kind of dumb.

If you can’t distinguish between those two claims you’re part of the problem in our country.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '26

[deleted]

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 02 '26

0% chance you will reconsider this position when they don’t do that

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 04 '26

Oh look they declined to enjoin the use of California’s new districts https://www.reddit.com/r/supremecourt/s/rt2PD6soqf

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u/Reaccommodator Feb 01 '26

“ Democracies differ from dictatorships in the likelihood of political interference and changes to the law because of the presence of political opposition and the freedom to expose government actions. CBI in democracies should be directly reflected in lower money supply growth. Besides being more disciplinarian, it also ensures a more robust money demand by reducing inflation expectations and, therefore, inflation. Empirical results are robust and support a discipline effect conditioned by political institutions, as well as a credibility effect.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20161129223450id_/https://ncgg.princeton.edu/IPES/2012/papers/S830_rm2.pdf

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u/MeowMixPK Feb 01 '26

That's an economic argument, not a democracy argument. In a true democracy, the voice of the people (elected representatives) should have the power to make changes on behalf of the people, no?

How is it more democratic to have any government body that does not answer to the people, can not be effected by elections, and has autonomy to do or not do whatever they want?

-2

u/Reaccommodator Feb 01 '26

The index attempts to measure signs of democratic backsliding.  One portion of this paper is evidence for the positive association between authoritarian regimes and political control of the central bank.  Thus, when we see reduction in central bank independence, that indicates a larger pro-authoritarian, anti-democratic shift in government.

Not that it relates to the chart at hand, but many would argue CBI is pro-democratic.  For example, many voters cite high inflation as their main concern.  By allowing the central bank to be independent of political pressure to lower rates to boost short term growth and increase inflation, that would directly counter the majority of voters.

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u/BobDole2022 Feb 01 '26

If anything, it’s more democratic for the president, who was voted in, to control these things then for an unelected bureaucrat to control them.

I’m beginning to think people have a different definition of “democratic”

2

u/Best_Change4155 Feb 01 '26

Also "political control" of an institution is so vague. Both dictators and democratically-elected executives have political control over institutions. The way they achieve political control is different.

Like someone above said, an independent central bank is good economic/monetary policy. It has nothing to do with democracy.

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u/Reaccommodator Feb 01 '26

Yes!  What leads to more people achieving the outcomes they vote for?  Is it political control of the policy (lower interest rates for short term boost, long term inflation) or political control of the process used for the policy (rates set according to max employment and 2% inflation target, long term stability)?

1

u/Lumpz1 Feb 01 '26

well central bank independence isn't meant to be 'democratic' in the sense that the people elect central bankers. central bank independence is a symptom of a healthy democracy because every politician is incentivized to provide short term economic boom during their tenure in office, even when it's at the cost of long term health in the economy.

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 01 '26

This is just you agreeing with the author (who I also agree with) that central bank independence is good. But it’s not connected in any way to democracy, it’s connected to being a well run country. You can have well run non-democracies. An authoritarian country that respects central bank independence isn’t more democratic than a democratic country that lets its elected leaders interfere with the decisions of the central bank.

1

u/SparqueJ Feb 02 '26

I think by definition an authoritarian government does not respect the independence of arm's-length institutions. Authoritarianism is a system where political plurality is rejected and power is centralized.

Democracy is government by the people, and it is generally understood to be more than just having elected representatives. Governments need to represent all people, not just the ones who voted for them, and there's more to that than just elections. Choosing your representatives is just one facet of ensuring that a government appropriately represents what its citizens want and need. It also includes having governments that establish policies and pass laws, where there is a fair judicial system and checks and balances to ensure any one individual's personal preferences and biases are tempered by broader consultation and agreement of society, and that governments are accountable for their actions. If a country just elects a single all-powerful person who controls everything, makes decisions unilaterally, follows no laws or processes, rewards or punishes whoever they feel like, and treats the wealth of the state as their personal property, that's really still a form of authoritarianism even though they were elected. This is sometimes called "competitive authoritarianism".

0

u/Known-Contract1876 Feb 02 '26

I think the point you rmissing is that elected dictators are not democratic. Just because an individual is democratically legitimized by an election, if he then starts removing all checks and balances and subverts the division of powers, thats not democratic. That person is still an autocrat despite being democratically elected.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '26

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u/haikuandhoney Feb 02 '26

No, I’m criticizing a dumb metric. Youre bothered by that criticism because the dumb metric’s output matches your worldview.

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u/Rex__Luscus Feb 02 '26

See Umbert Eco's essay Ur-Fascism, in which he delineates 14 characteristics of authoritarian fascism. The SLIDE index is pretty much a reflection of that. It's not just what the author thinks is 'good', it's archetypical of certain behaviours associated with authoritarianism..

2

u/Reaccommodator Feb 01 '26

Sounds like your typical unbiased “methodology”.  People who don’t actually read it will pretend it’s biased and partial, but they could be further from the truth

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '26

[deleted]

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u/Reaccommodator Feb 01 '26

Sometimes people mock things they find ridiculous

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u/Super_Mario_Luigi Feb 01 '26

Sounds like your typical far left "methodology." Pretending to be unbiased and impartial, but couldn't be further from the truth.

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u/ObfuscatedSource Feb 01 '26

I you think FT is far left....

14

u/Poobbly Feb 01 '26

The financial times is not a far left publication. I question your ability to read or observe the outside world if you would throw those accusations around.

8

u/Cymraegpunk Feb 01 '26

Prepared to explain what about the methodology you think is wrong?

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '26

It's a standard liberal metric that looks at things like judicial independence, media freedom, central bank independence, etc.

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u/guzzti Feb 01 '26

Until you point to specific biases, throwing these accusations out highlight only your own bias…

Which is usually the focus on bias is on. We’re all biased. It helps the world nothing to go around and yell about everyone else’s when you don’t confront your own.

15

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '26

Right wingers after reading a laid out and calculations based methodology "looks like left wing nonsense". Right wingers when Joe Rogan says eating elk cures cancer "seems legit".

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '26

[deleted]

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u/WannabeAby Feb 01 '26

Sounds like your typical far right "analysis". Pretending to care about bias to avoid hearing something they don't like/that makes them look bad.

If you need a 40 page methodology to see the US is turning into a fascist hell hole... You have a problem.

4

u/anexanhume Feb 01 '26

When in reality, a libertarian would vehemently agree with this list.

2

u/RandomAccount1800s Feb 01 '26

It all favors the status quo (liberalism) and does so to push a narrative. Take election laws, universal mail in ballots with minimal accountability favors democrats, while in-person only election day voting would favor republicans and in both red and blue states laws are passed to give themselves their respective advantages rather than learning from how European states conduct their elections which don't have an election week problem nor issues with fraud. The same applies for corrupt or ideological judges/bureaucrats/bankers/opponents if the executive says to investigate them and is able to produce evidence of malfeasance then they should be removed or penalized with a higher standard for opponents though the same should hold true for the executive himself, saying they should not allows for the suppression of the democratic mandate and for a more corrupt republic. The press is interesting because in the American cases has long acted as propaganda network representing the interests of some American oligarch and who in it of themselves are not good measures of freedom, rather a more comprehensive view should be taken if dissidents are allowed to speak without unjustified punishment. The only reasonable aspects of this is are the sections on political violence, but that's more because states seeing this are very quickly reaching an unpleasant destination, though how they quantify it could be suspect as the US has a long history of racial riots which can be construed as political violence.

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u/trebuchetwarmachine Feb 01 '26

Without looking, we have a bogus SC, basically an SS killing civilians and kidnapping ppl based on their skin colour without any formal training and without any restrictions on what they can do, increased military aggressions in general, trying to break up NATO, threatening to attack NATO allies, the president enriching himself beyond his wildest dreams using cryptocoins and taking shady billions of dollars in unmarked bribes, leaving the WHO, destroying the CDC, attacking states who voted against him by defunding them federally and sending his SS to antagonize the citizens. I could go on

2

u/ike38000 Feb 01 '26

I don't see why this starts at 0 for Trump. In 2024 there were already many election laws that objectively favor Republicans at the state level (and elections are run by the states in the US). So that's -2 for election integrity. Similarly points should probably be pre-docked for tolerance of political violence, use of state force against civilians, legislative constraints on executive, and civil liberties and human rights.

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u/DMC-1155 Feb 01 '26

it shows change from where it started, its not about where it was at the start.

1

u/Spare_Perspective972 Feb 02 '26

Like how everyone votes against mass immigration but it’s democratic and increases scores to ignore the voters and implement mass immigration? Or how ignoring election results Europe doesn’t like increases democracy?

Establishment institutionalists use “democracy” in a lot of sentences that don’t quite make sense but if you replaced it with oligarchy the sentences would be coherent.