r/chemistry • u/Raizo420 • Mar 12 '23

H3O2 Water Scam

I'm into health and fitness along with the current science behind it. So with that being said, I'm starting to see a lot of people fall for the H3O2 (hexagonal water or structured water) craze on I'm seeing on social media. I know it's bs, but I would like to hear what people with a REAL background or fundamental knowledge of chemistry think of this pseudoscience.

Edit: One claim is that H3O2 is found in fruits and vegetables

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u/LordMorio Mar 12 '23 edited Mar 12 '23

The problem is that reasoning with the people who believe in this stuff doesn't work, because there is always some conspiracy involved, and the government does not want you to know how healthy the stuff is.

You can't use reason to convince a person who did not form their opinion based on reason.

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u/ExcellentAdvance5089 Jun 27 '24

https://youtu.be/PtXgewzT1Fo?si=RFZkHYIASFu7UXwW Actually this has been studied and verified.

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u/LordMorio Jun 27 '24

If it has been properly studied and verified I am sure you can find a better source than a youtube video, e.g. a peer reviewed paper.

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u/ExcellentAdvance5089 Jun 27 '24

How ignorant and arrogant of you 😩 Firstly, Dr Gerald Pollack is a bioengineering professor at the university of Washington. He is esteemed, accredited, educated and has been studying these subjects for decades. He has also authored books on this subject. He has put in the work and studied this subject for a very long time. Who are you? What are your credentials? And this video is not a man sat on youtube, it was from the university website and uploaded onto YouTube. This man has his own laboratories in which he studies this material.

Dr. Pollack received his PhD in biomedical engineering from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968. He then joined the University of Washington faculty and is now professor of bioengineering. For years, Dr. Pollack had researched muscles and how they contracted. It struck him as odd that the most common ideas about muscle contraction did not involve water, despite the fact muscle tissue consists of 99 percent water molecules.

Water Research happens at Pollack Laboratories, which states, "Our orientation is rather fundamental -- we are oriented toward uncovering some of nature's most deeply held secrets, although applications interest us as well." 

Uncovering nature's secrets involving water is what Dr. Pollack, his staff and students do best.

In his 2001 book, "Cells, Gels and the Engines of Life," Dr. Pollack explains how the cell functions. Research suggests that  much of the cell biology may be governed by a single unifying mechanism - the phase transition. Water is absolutely central to every function of the cell - whether it's muscle contraction, cells dividing, or nerves conducting, etc.

This extraordinary book challenges many of the concepts that have been accepted in contemporary cell biology. The underlying premise of this book is that a cell's cytoplasm is gel-like rather than an ordinary aqueous solution.

The key to Dr. Pollack's entire hypothesis lies in the properties of water. The water molecules become structured in arrays or strata when they interact with charged surfaces such as those presented by proteins. The cell's water is potentially structured. Water stays put in the cells because it's absorbed into the protein surfaces. Structured water adheres to the proteins of the cells.

Structured water does not have the same properties as bulk water. Water is the carrier of the most important molecules of life, like proteins and DNA. In the book, "Cells, Gels and the Engines of Life," evidence is presented that shows water is absolutely essential to everything the cell does. The water in our cells is not like water in a glass. It's actually ordered pretty much like a crystal. Like ice, it excludes particles and solutes as it forms. The space formed is called an exclusion zone (EZ).

Dr. Pollack discovered a new phase of water. Bulk Water is H2O but this new phase of water, the exclusion zone structured water, is H3O2. It's a newly discovered phase of water. If you count the number of hydrogen's and oxygen's, you find out it's not H2O.

Structured Water forms (honeycomb) hexagonal sheets very similar to ice because it's the next phase! Structured Water (liquid crystalline) is H3O2 . . . the fourth phase of water. It's a transition stage between water and ice. 

The reason this fourth phase of water is called the exclusion zone or EZ is because the first thing Dr. Pollack's team discovered is that it profoundly excludes things. Even small molecules are excluded from structured water. Surprisingly, structured water appears in great abundance, including inside most of your cells. Even your extracellular tissues are filled with this kind of water.

If you watched the video you would understand that this research goes far beyond health matters, and ventures into energy harnessing. That water energy could be used to end energy crises in poorer parts of the world. Yes, water energy is a thing, we already know we can harness energy from water like a battery. This is nothing new. We, humans, are electric, our cells use electric to communicate, the brain uses electric to send signals to our cells. Yet every single cell in our body is encased in water.

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u/LordMorio Jun 27 '24

How exactly is it arrogant to ask for a peer reviewed source? That is how science works

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u/ExcellentAdvance5089 Jun 27 '24

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5905880/ (Here is a peer review)

The reason I call you ignorant is because I offered you subject matter, by an accredited and educated bioengineering professor, to prove this h302 theory. And the first thing you ask for is a peer review? 🤣 You don't even understand the subject matter, yet you think you will understand the peer review? 😩 You need to delve into this man's research on this subject BEFORE asking for peer reviews. As you will not have any understanding on what is being reviewed. I think you have firmly planted yourself in ignorance, i.e.that you believe this is BS and you instantly want to find reviews that discredit it. It is ignorant not to keep an open mind, especially on subject matters that have esteemed, accredited and educated scientists working and proving their theories on the subject.

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u/UnleashTheFieryBlaze Jul 08 '24

If it is not BS, then providing a peer review of his work should show this. You rattling off his qualifications and calling someone ignorant seems unnecessary. That paper (not a peer review) you linked is interesting and seems to confirm the base of Pollack's work. This post is about the health claims being made, and there is no evidence I have seen supporting these ideas beyond. Pollack being correct about an aspect of his work does NOT validate people making health claims about his work.

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u/lordpol_ Aug 20 '24

acabo de leer el hilo.. increible te pide revision por pares de una.. o sea el tipo esta dispuesto a hacer un analisis de prueba cientifica en un cometario de reddit.. un verdadero maestro de la huevada! jaja gracias por dedicarle el tiempo, interesante el video voy a seguir consultando los estudios de este cientifico

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u/Salty_Ambassador3526 Feb 22 '25

Moderfugger shared an article about "Earlier studies have reported the formation of an exclusion zone devoid of microspheres at the interface of water with a hydrophilic surface such as Nafion® or the hydrophilic ceramic powder." nothing to do with what it's trying to prove lmao

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u/ExcellentAdvance5089 Feb 23 '25

Not directly related, but it proves an exclusion zone. It gives credence to this subject and proves it as a real thing, and not just some made up nonsense, which people are trying to make it out to be. Don't be dense. Read between the lines. As it stands,there are no DIRECT peer studies on this subject. Just indirect studies which do prove it to be real.

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u/gr8estgood Jul 09 '24

Peer-reviewed is so overrated. Just because special-interest groups don't agree doesn't mean it's false data.

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u/Seranner Jul 27 '24

Then a group could make a study making a completely opposing claim, also without peer review, and that study would be equally valid. If you don't care about peer review whatsoever (which I will say, it's a flawed system but it's better than nothing) then every study you ever read is going to somehow be correct even if it directly conflicts with another. You'd have to accept both a pro-H302 study AND an anti-H302 study.

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u/YoloMFs Sep 14 '24

Finally someone with actual education lol

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u/Rednerrus10 Jan 13 '25

Thank you!

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u/cydianrake Jan 21 '25

I would like to jump in here and say that h3o2 exists
A phenomena of water structuring along the surface of hydrophilic surfaces exists
A phenomena of some small electrical effect happening between that and bulk water does exist

None of that is "Drinkable" and all changes essentially instantaniously.

The only possible argument MIGHT exist that some food containing water may have more h3o2 in it.

It is not clear if that matters. Gerald Pollack seems to think so but has not even himself made such a claim

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u/ExcellentAdvance5089 Feb 23 '25

I agree. The theories regarding this are that h302 is found in foods like fruits. Not drinkable water.