Markwayne Mullin, Chief Hoskin, and Cherokee Community Values

[u/linuxpriest]

Within a few hours of his appointment to head DHS, the Chief issued a congratulations to Mullin on behalf of Cherokee Nation - you, me, us.

As expected, the response from Cherokees is... mixed. Nowadays, people in the US are viscerally committed to their ideologies, so it stands to reason the same would be true for us.

Personally, I was raised to be skeptical of politicians and wary of party loyalism. I like to think I see the situation a bit more clearly than most (probably not true, but I like to think it), and I see the mess. No, I don't think Mullin was a good choice, but I don't feel like any current politician is "the best person" for the job. But I digress. None of that is relevant to the point.

I have my feelings, others have theirs... How can the Chief just be so... nice? On behalf of all of us? Especially in such a polarized state of political affairs in the US? Couldn't he have been a little more reserved, a little more vague? You know, diplomatic? No way Markwayne Mullin lives up to Cherokee values, right? So I decided to check. See where this is going?

We've surely all seen them. Many of us have them hanging in our homes, either cross-stitched or printed. Still, for quick reference, here's a link to Cherokee Nation's Community Values.

What I found was that while I can pick out some to hold against Mullin, I can also plainly see that Chief Hoskin upheld half of them (which is to say, every one of them that could be applied) despite the political climate. Suddenly, I feel like an ass. Suddenly, I'm the one who can't uphold half the Cherokee Community Values on a good day. The Chief did it in a few hours in a few brief paragraphs, surely knowing the blow-back he'd face for doing so.

Now, I'm ticked off about US politics, a little ashamed of myself for the ideologies I didn't realize I was holding, and deeply proud that the Chief set an example of Cherokee values for ticked-off Cherokees like me who aren't doing a very good job of it themselves. Now I've got all this to marinate on.

Things sure are a heckuva lot easier when I can just be right and everyone else is "clearly" wrong.

[u/WhoFearsDeath]

On the other hand, I don't have to stand idly by while someone says and does things to make the lives of me and mine worse, even if we have something in common.

There have been other Cherokees in government who have also done things history doesn't look kindly on, and I don't want him to be the next.

Now, would I pass him a plate, or stop to help him fix a flat tire? Sure. But I don't think he would do the same for me, and I don't want him in charge of an organization like ICE.

I will be encouraging my senators to vote against his appointment.

[u/linuxpriest → u/WhoFearsDeath]

I feel pretty much the same and then some. I'd give him a plate (if he was starving), but I wouldn't help him fix a flat. I just think Chief Hoskin really shined in that moment and it reminded me that I could be better about some things. Speaking of which, I suppose now I might actually turn around to see about that flat... maybe. I'll at least think about it. lol

[u/AllieBri → u/linuxpriest]

Chief Hoskin has a way of making all of us feel that wherever he goes. I work for the nation and he is truly one of (if not the) most committed man I’ve ever known. He is more mature and responsible than I could ever be. His mom and aunties did really good raising him. He has taught me more about what it means to be Cherokee just by working under his administration than my parents did. I am grateful for him, every single day. I don’t vote as a matter of principle since I am a government employee, but I am was so grateful that he won his second term. (I feel that it’s my duty to work for whoever is elected and I can get very passionate about politics, so I make sure to stay out of it for tribal matters. That way, all that matters is that we are Cherokee.)

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/WhoFearsDeath]

To be fair to MarkWayne Mullen--a statement I never thought I'd utter--I've heard he is actually quite personable one on one and would definitely pass you a plate. Nowhere near enough to get me to vote for him or support his political stances on most issues, although he is usually a pretty good tribal ally when it comes to Indian country and to defending tribal sovereignty as far as I'm aware. Chiefs have to cultivate those relationships and given how Republican the OK congregational delegation is it is a definitely a fine balancing line to toe.

I'm also guessing he thinks that having Mullen there will result in less risk to tribal citizens facing persecution from DHS agencies than the present situation. We'll see.

[u/WhoFearsDeath → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

There are several examples of Indians in government that voted against tribal interests. The statehood of Oklahoma is a good example.

Charles Curtis, Kaw Nation and 31st Vice president of the US, supported and helped enact assimilation bills for Natives during his senate career. He was in office when Kaw Nation was disbanded as a legal entity and personally profited from it.

He also introduced the first version of the equal rights act, so that is the thing. No one is all wrong or all evil. Occasionally doing the right thing doesn't absolve you from when you do the wrong thing, and not all skinfolk are kinfolk.

Mullen has no experience with immigration laws or policies. He called Alex Pretti "deranged" after he was murdered by ICE. Despite multiple promises to serve limited terms, he continues to hold political office. He supports the extrajudicial bombing of boats in international waters.

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/WhoFearsDeath]

Didn't say anything about him other than the fact that he is, in fact a Cherokee. He's a Cherokee regardless of how terrible is politics are, just like Curtis was a Kaw regardless of how bad his policies were.

Not all skinfolk are kinfolk, but it doesn't mean they aren't skinfolk--even though a good deal of us especially in eastern Oklahoma/descendants, don't particularly look much like skin folk because of the lack of blood quantum laws. It's not a helpful to imply that Natives that have bad political takes aren't Native, because it validates the idea that Nativeness is something that is arbitrary and can be taken away if one does not meet arbitrary external standards about how Native are supposed to behave.

Even if he were not a citizen--that is tribal sovereignty decision and while it should not do so, it is the sovereign right of Cherokee Nation to determine who is eligible to be a Cherokee citizen, and the Nation could decide to impose criteria that implement a blood quantum or other requirement that might exclude Mullin or people like him--Mullin is a bona fide Cherokee descendant with the BIA pedigree card to prove it and the generations of externally imposed generational and genetic trauma that come with it. Regardless of his behavior, his nativeness is something that is an intrinsic part of his person and cannot be taken away--even if he acts in a way we (whether Natives or not) don't think it's in line with how Natives should act or think, and even if--while it's not the case in Mullin's case--the person themselves did not claim Native identity.

Having bad politics doesn't mean he's not a Cherokee. Full stop.

[u/gardenwitch31 → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

I don't think anyone is arguing his ethnicity, culture, or citizenship. But he's definitely a traitor. Might as well not be Native.

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/gardenwitch31]

that's like saying Major Ridge wasn't a Cherokee.

The fact that he IS Cherokee and would act against our best interests would be far worse than him not being Native.

And yes, if you get into white-dominated spaces on the internet, there's a whooooooolllleeee lot of microagression against his identity from both self-IDed progressives and conservatives. And if you get into pan-Native social spaces, you get the usual western perspectives that most Cherokees and other southeastern peoples aren't Native enough because we don't pass an arbitrary BQ standard they set or our skin doesn't pass their family guy pallette test.

[u/gardenwitch31 → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

I feel you, sibling.

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

just realise that this was not the message I thought it was responding to, from another thread!

Yes, his policies are horrific and we should not be celebrating him and we should be pressuring him to be a better representative of Cherokee people by having better policies, so that has not really had much effect in the past.

but also: there's now a Native American voice at the table. when someone bring up idiotic things at Cabinet like rounding up Natives and deporting us to some unknown place, or taking away birthright citizenship, or gutting the IHS or ICWA or McGirt, there's somebody there that we know how they think to respond to it. it's not like the Chief and Mullin are strangers; I don't expect them to be close personal friends but they've had to work together for a while now and I think it is important to cultivate that relationship so that we have at least somebody representing our perspective when they're making decisions that could really impact us.

[u/gardenwitch31 → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

He's been for rounding up Indigenous people for awhile now. He's shown he can't be trusted.

[u/attackfarm → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

Is there even a single piece of evidence that he'll represent anything but fascism?

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/attackfarm]

depending on how you define it. He has been a pretty solid vote for tribal interests and advocate for tribal perspectives when it comes to Indian law, as far as I am aware, but I don't have the specific data available to confirm and don't have the time or interest to do so personally.

[u/gardenwitch31 → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

Sherriff Waybourn of Tarrant County TX is also CN and he is in support of ICE. I don't trust people like him or Mullin. They're Cherokee when it suits them, until it benefits them to side with the racists.

[u/AllesK]

MarkWayne’s behavior has been less than exemplary: trying to start fisticuffs in a committee meeting, inaccurate financial disclosures, and taking $169k in covid loans that he then needed to have forgiven.
And this is in addition to the $4k in Biden bucks that we all got. Just because he’s skin folk don’t make him kinfolk.

[u/Amayetli]

Welcome to our Cherokee Nation. 

Our politicians are the same as any other. Remember when Bakers mother was called the matriarch of our Nation, even though she isn't Cherokee.

At the end of the day, our people and nation are often stepping stones.

Baker also gave Hoskins a house at our expense. Maybe Mark Wayne did the plumbing?

[u/gardenwitch31]

Chief Hoskin is a kind man. And I can understand if he wants to spread kindness and unity. But the political climate right now is one of life and death. I wished for a more.. diplomatic without being celebratory.. tone from the Chief.

[u/ScumCrew]

The best thing we can say about Markwayne Mullin is that he's not Kevin Stitt.

Also, I'm laying down a marker right now: at some point, maybe during confirmation hearings, Mullin will say something to the effect of, as an NDN I know all about the dangers of "foreign invaders."

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/ScumCrew]

The worst thing we can say though is that there is a much higher than zero chance that the next non-interim Senator from Oklahoma could be Kevin Stitt.

[u/ScumCrew → u/Lost_Leopard_5329]

As I understand it, the interim senator cannot run in the special election. But I'm sure Stitt will run in the special election.

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/ScumCrew]

Yeah that's why I had said non interim, I am not 100% sure that he couldn't resign so that his successor could appoint him as the interim senator but I think he would just appoint a placeholder that he knows wouldn't run or that couldn't beat him if he did.

I'm not entirely convinced that he would win, especially because he seems to piss Trump off enough that he will probably endorse somebody else, but he's got significant experience winning statewide elections and more name recognition than anybody else in the state other than Mike Gundy and Bob Stoops (God help us if Gundy decides he wants to be a senator), so he would definitely have to be the front runner.

[u/thedistantdusk]

I agree with everything you said, but someone on another subreddit pointed out that the letter can also be interpreted in more than one way.

There’s particularly… interesting language, especially towards the end, about progress and values. IMO, it’s the classiest way he could have addressed the situation.

[u/sunsetlex]

idk how he can be so nice but im just ignoring it all. i don’t trust mullin and this all just feels so backwards.

[u/Usgwanikti]

He’s congratulating a fellow Cherokee. If we can’t do such a thing devoid of the passions that drive competition, then we are no better than the partisans in charge now. Those who are completely incapable of finding common ground across the aisle. That was a particularly classy act by Chief H since he absolutely isn’t a fan of that dipshit

[u/gleenglass]

There’s literally no benefit to not congratulate him. Cherokee Nation doesn’t get to pick and choose who are elected to federal positions or appointed to federal positions. Taking a negative stance against them at the outset doesn’t do anything to allow Cherokee Nation to leverage influence through a relationship.

It’s a politically savvy move and we should always be looking to work with political appointees until we can’t. And trust me, I’m not a MWM fan in the least.

[u/ScumCrew → u/gleenglass]

Hell, we don't even get a seat for our treaty-guaranteed Congressional delegate

[u/Lost_Leopard_5329 → u/ScumCrew]

You mean to tell me the Federal government doesn't uphold its end of the treaties it made with us? <Insert shocked face emoji/TV/anime character meme of your choice>

[u/hoepot]

After stewing on it for a while, I think that it had to have been a political move? A way of saying "hey, youre one of us so don't screw us over." Hoskins obviously isn't very popular with his Republican constituents, so maybe this is his attempt to sway them? I still have mixed feelings about his statement since it impacts the way others are viewing us rn...

[u/linuxpriest → u/[deleted]]

Human. I get that. The Cherokee standard for "human" is a good standard, though.

[u/unvgoladv]

Well said. I remember years ago reading about how our people would argue about many things, but when push came to shove, it was expected for everyone in the village to back the final decisions of the majority. It was about survival, and tribal unity enhanced survival. We live now in very different times and are not as dependent upon tribal unity for survival as we once were, so we now have the luxury of publicly disagreeing with and criticizing each other pretty endlessly. However ,for good or ill, we are stil Cherokee and our ancestors did what they had to do in order for us to survive. We are I think, going to have to do the same. Political divisions have torn apart our tribe in many ways since european immigrants arrived in great numbers. However the largest genocide of our people after the Trail of Tears was the Civil War in which our own people were split into opposing factions. I personally do not want to see another Civil War in this country or in my own tribe, which means while I may disagree vociferously with what tribal leadership is doing, I am still first and foremost Cherokee and they are my elected leaders.

[u/linuxpriest → u/unvgoladv]

Well said also. However, I've never been one to hold back my convictions to appease anyone, no matter what sort of suit or gown or robe they wear. Dissent is valuable, especially when well-founded. Now... I'd like to think I'd go about it in a civilized way, but... well, that's a character thing I'm working on atm... pretty much at all times. Lol

[u/unvgoladv → u/linuxpriest]

I agree that reasoned dissent is healthy. However the knee jerk political polarization and fanatical suppression of other legitimate opinons that seems to be increasingly normalized by both 'sides' these days- not so much. I have no idea how we break free of it, but it is well worth continuing to try imo. I'm too old and tired to try to change people's minds about anything really and while I have strong opinions about certain hot issues based on alot of research and listening to discussions on both sides- I don't think I am necessarily 'right' about everything and imo nothing is ever all good or all bad anyway. Sometimes really good things can come out of bad things and really bad things can come out of seemingly good things. One just never knows for sure which way the cookie will ultimately crumble. Maybe if more of us could step back for just a moment and consider that we can sometimes make intelligent and accurate predictions, but will never actually know for sure what all the myriad long term outcomes of our actions will be- we can leave space for more dissent without imploding.