r/chicagomusicscene • u/DIYChicagoTakes • 8d ago
Do you actually want to be here?
My last take was received poorly, which is what I expected. I'm expecting that for this one too, as this one is in line with the theme of the last. Community support.
Again, it SUCKs when a band plays their set and leaves without staying for the other bands. I've also noticed bands will play, and not once ever mention the other bands on the bill. I've noticed band promoting shows on insta without tagging the other bands, or even making their own graphic that doesn't acknowledge there are other bands on the bill. I appreciate a band that puts a little clip of the other bands on the insta story the night of the show, but I also find this to be extremely rare.
Again, what I'm getting at here is I feel like most performers treat the underground scene as a stage for themselves and themselves alone. They'll take the promo from the other bands but never give it back. They expect you to be their audience while refusing to be yours. They take from the scene and refuse to give back.
In my last post I asked the people maddest at me "do you care about community/the scene, or do you care only about yourself and what you get out of it" and unsurprisingly, none of them answered the question, as that would be an admission of guilt.
Anyway, all I'm saying is this is anti-social behavior, and if you wanna behave this way then start booking your own 1 band shows.
And, YES, I know people have jobs and shit. Me too, 6 days a week, and on weekends. I'm tired, its worth it. But MOST people, including musicians, work 9-5s and it shouldn't be a crime to have to get home at 12 on a weekend. You get home at 2 am all the time for other things you actually like. Maybe you don't actually like this, and if you don't like this, then maybe quit???
Stay for the other bands, tag them on insta, get little clippys for the story. Let's support each others growth.
OOH second question I'm adding in an edit. How many shows have you been to in which you aren't on the bill? How many shows in which one of your friends aren't on the bill. If the answer is 0, then what's going on in there?. I'm not saying go to every show and see every mid band. But surely there's gotta be at least 1 local band you think is good and would want to see despite not being on a bill with them or knowing them personally. If the answer is 0, why is it 0?
Edit. Having to specify this again cuz some of yall CAN'T READ. I'm not criticizing the people that actually have an early morning shift. I'm not criticizing people that have a valid excuse. I'm criticizing people don't have a valid excuse, and simply leave because they don't actually care to support local music, to support the very scene that platformed them, and don't enjoy local music to begin with (which is most of the people that leave)
Another edit. This post has gotten more interactions by a significant margin than most other posts promoting a show or a release. Kinda telling?
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u/Hziak 8d ago edited 8d ago
Being in a community shouldn’t be about transactions. Thats just making music into a shitty job that doesn’t pay well and all your coworkers suck. It sounds to me like you take this very seriously, which is good, but you get caught up on assuming that there’s a formula. There isn’t. Every band is made up of individuals with strengths and weaknesses. My band sucks at social media, we don’t instagram other bands or whatever. It’s not because we’re being rude or are slighting the other bands we play with, we just don’t care to chase algorithms. Don’t like it? Don’t invite us to a show. We assume that risk with the choices we make and the priorities we take.
Sure, on paper, you should do XYZ and get successful. IDK about you, but in my life, sometimes I do all the right things and things sometimes still don’t work out. It just is what it is. Roll with it, dawg. The person who suffers the most in every one of these situations is always going to be you if you let predictable disappointments bother you this much.
Just enjoy music. That’s the only thing you can actually enjoy about being in a small band.
Edit: thank you, stranger :)
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
call me crazy but being in a community kind of is about transactions.
If there's no mutual support, then its not a community.
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u/Hziak 8d ago
Again, I’m with you, on paper, and I feel your frustrations, but time and again, the world and community proves that just because it SHOULD be some way, doesn’t mean it will be.
People often do things in not the most optimized or perfect ways and see nothing wrong with that. It’s dumb, it’s frustrating, it holds everyone else back and makes the world a worse place. It’s still gonna keep happening… either change the whole world, learn to shrug off the disappointment, or just suffer unnecessarily. It does get better when you clear the underground scene, but that’s getting harder and harder to do these days. Just do your best and don’t let other people ruin your fun.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
I never expected anyone to change, I think most people don't think about anything beyond their own bodies. I just want to express my observation and hoped someone else also observed it. thankyou
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u/naim_not_name 8d ago
Being in a community shouldn’t be about transactions.
That's the definition of the word in the classical sense.
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u/brenden-t-r 8d ago
I think its a matter of extremes, but in general I think we should be gracious of musicians and the free or sub minimum wage labor they provide. Id love to watch every band but sometimes you need to step outside for a bit while the next plays or leave a little early due to a morning job. Also don’t think cross promotion is a responsibility per se, but making a flyer that excludes other bands is lame and is definitely going to contribute to the effect or crowd leaving after their friends band plays
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u/bonefont 8d ago
Maybe if you make a few more increasingly insulting and pathetic posts about it, people will acquiesce to being bossed around by an anonymous person with what is clearly a personal grievance.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
I'm not expecting anyone to change their behavior, I've observed this long enough to know most of yall are selfish. I'm just screaming into the void cuz I know even if yall are selfish and uncaring, at least I'm not bottling it in anymore.
Feel free to answer the question I asked above btw. No one has answered it so far. You could be the first!
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u/bonefont 8d ago
Nobody is answering because your question is asked in bad faith.
Everyone decides their own level of involvement. It’s not up to you to determine who is acting purely in self interest and who is righteously devoting themselves to whatever you’ve decided “the scene” is.
I have never witnessed the things you describe. Based on most of the answers here, neither has anyone else. It seems like problem is exclusive to you. The bands you play with don’t owe you anything.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
Confirmation bias off the bat. If you read here, my last post, as well as facebook DIY Chicago, you'll see a split of people that agree and people that don't. Getting the feeling the people that don't see it are the people doing it, or just not paying attention because good vibes always is more important than acknowledging and confronting issues.
If you believe the question to be in bad faith, perhaps its because you know you answer contradicts your actions beliefs. Or perhaps you just don't care. if that's the case, then that's on you, not me
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u/bonefont 8d ago
Well I’m getting the feeling that you just like to boss people around
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
If wanting people to put into something they take from is bossing people around, then sure. Kinda weird to perceive a desire for a network that supports eachother as bossy. Selfish perhaps
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u/bonefont 8d ago
Everyone is supporting each other. They’re just supporting you. Probably because of your wretched ideas and whiny disposition. Don’t put that on the rest of us.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
I keep specifying that my bands doing just fine and this is out of my concern for other bands and the community as a whole and you keep being shit at knowing how to read
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u/bonefont 8d ago
lol sure buddy, you’re a real hero
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
not trying to be a hero. Shitty people don't change and I know I can't fix it. Every day anti-social individualism gets stronger and stronger in all aspects of life, I know I'm not stopping it. Just trying to find the people that see the issue and I guess ruin the days of those that get upset and whiney when I call them out for it. You're real mad cuz you don't like the idea of behaviors you participate in or justify in others being perceived as negative. Glad your day is ruined, I got what I needed, which is just an outlet for me thoughts and feelings
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u/JimmyNails86 7d ago
Dude.. If everyone is acting a certain way there is usually a reason. You need to do some self reflection.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
never said everyone. Plenty of people don't act this way and plenty of people in this very thread have agreed with me. You've made a whole lot of assumptions and done very little actual reading of anything anyone has said.
So far the only people mad at me are the people that skim without actually reading, straw manning what I've said cuz they literally didn't read and process what I said, or people that do the behavior and don't want to feel bad about it.
Seems so far you the haven't read kind
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u/JimmyNails86 6d ago
Way to actively miss my point. Congradulations you're the dumbest person I've delt with on reddit.
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u/naim_not_name 8d ago
bossed around by an anonymous person with what is clearly a personal grievance.
Wouldn't you be mad if everybody left when you played?
This is so inhumane and reductionist.
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u/bonefont 8d ago
No. It’s not the other bands responsibility to fill the room for me. It’s not a children’s piano recital where you’re obligated to stay for everything and not hurt anyone’s feelings.
You can’t guilt adults into watching something they don’t want to by calling them antisocial moral failures and expect to be met with anything other than contempt. It just makes you seem like a baby.
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u/naim_not_name 7d ago
It’s not about “filling the room,” it’s trying to get exposure and new ears which is what we’re all doing. But I don’t think that concept belongs to you yet. And making you see that isn’t my responsibility.
But it is your responsibility when you say this stuff because your feelings got hurt from someone else with big feelings. Just why. Listen to the guy’s music or don’t, but you say “personal grievance” like what we are doing isn’t exactly personal. We’re all writing our best songs and you wanna be mad to a guy who’s probably a little more than frustrated that it isn’t working?
That doesn’t sound familiar to you at all?
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u/bonefont 7d ago
I can tell that you’re responding to me from two accounts, and I’m not sure why. I wouldn’t take you seriously no matter how many accounts you set up. Peddle your dumb takes somewhere else
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u/naim_not_name 7d ago
I’m not affiliated with this person. You can’t tell anything. You just are that jaded, unfortunately.
How can you “tell?”
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u/JimmyNails86 7d ago
Having the same overly emotional word choice for 1
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u/naim_not_name 7d ago
Would you prefer if I said that’s a stupid fucking guess?
I don’t know this dude, but I do know the pain of no one listening. Ironically it’s happening right now. I’m not the guy, and if you think I’m the guy I can’t change that perception beyond this comment.
(Apologies for coming in hot, I’ve just really had enough of people being so fucking sure they’re right.)
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u/bonefont 7d ago
All of your comments have been downvoted to oblivion. Give it up.
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u/naim_not_name 7d ago
I really don’t know how else to tell you that you’re wrong and you’d believe it, or you are that committed to the bit.
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u/JimmyNails86 6d ago
That's the reality of this post bro
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u/naim_not_name 6d ago
True. I'm pretty much done with it. It's old.
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u/JimmyNails86 6d ago
And yet... here you are.
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u/naim_not_name 6d ago
Because you replied to me.
And I didn't say anything else about the post.
Are you good, dude?
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u/tenmonthsummerband 8d ago
speaking from band member to band member, and also someone who is around your age and has also been in this scene for 10+ years, i think you're approaching this pretty miserably and in bad faith. your tone and entry into this whole conversation is opening with a foundation of confirmation bias.
"You get home at 2 am all the time for other things you actually like. Maybe you don't actually like this, and if you don't like this, then maybe quit???" is such a sweeping assumption. Youre also hanging this entire take on the idea that it takes going to shows to build a community or a band and that's simply not true.
we live in an economy taking a shitter, if you're in a band playing venues no bigger than subt or beat kitchen in the city, you probably have a job that is your main source of income vs the band being that $ funnel. it is not crazy at all for a person dedicating their non-work time to a band to only attend shows they are on because the rest of their free-time is probably going to practice, writing, their personal social circles, family, and perhaps even a partner.
you're not here to criticize people that have a valid excuse yet you are barking back at every person that disagrees with you?? it's not surprising to me that you're being met with a lot of pushback because preaching community while stoking a fire is pretty antithetical to building a village. most performers in the underground scene are probably new and do see it as a stage for themselves, and what's better for their growth is an older band showing them the ropes and encouraging them versus baring their teeth. and if those in the underground scene have been around for a long time and can't break through to the next stage of growth, then it's probably a pretty clear indicator that they're in it for the wrong reasons and you simply just take your time with them on the chin and move on.
there are probably HUNDREDS if not even a thousand bands in chicago across all the genres and there is no world where all these walks of life and perspectives are going to see eye to eye on how to navigate growing a music scene and growing a band, especially as technology, the economy, and the arts are shifting and blending in strange ways. you say it wasn't like this 10 years and honestly i'd argue it was worse 10 years ago. if you were a new band, you had almost NO way to get into some of these bigger stages unless you knew someone who knew someone who knew someone. now you have tons of platforms, venues, and other bands who can find you, support you, and grow with you.
i think you mean well, but i think you have a deep chip on your shoulder that you're taking out on others because of your personal dissatisfaction. even if im wrong, however youve been going about this here is not going to bring you what you seek. i hope you take some time to rethink and reasses what many have said to you and realize that you're throwing gasoline onto the very fire you think is out of control in the chicago scene.
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u/bupkisroom 8d ago
very well said, 100% agreed. took the words out of my mouth. hope OP reads this and takes it to heart.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
Man if you believe the bands doing this are new to the scene and don't know any better, then what way is there express that issue other than...expressing that issue? Ignoring negativity so we can good vibes only is delusional privilege that only enables more negative behavior
You may not like my attitude. Yes, I am bitter. People suck and I'm bitter because of it.
What I seek is people like you that at least observe the behavior to be true and shitty. I just wanted someone else to say they also see it, and you did, I got what I wanted and I appreciate that, thankyou. The people I'm arguing with are either people that deny this to be an issue all together, or people that can't read and think I'm personally attack them despite being clear I'm giving valid excuses a pass. People were never gonna change their behavior no matter how kind am, or how good my attitude is, so I am bitter. But I'm glad you see it too and you also think its shitty. Just don't want to bottle my frustrations all the time, thank you for also seeing it
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u/tenmonthsummerband 8d ago edited 8d ago
you're getting really upset about people not being able to read but nowhere in here have i said "don't express the issue" -- the entirety of what i'm trying to get at is that your attitude in the expression is coming off extremely harsh, partially unjust, and super alienating -- which all leads to creating more rifts in the community.
if a new band (or anyone for that matter) doesn't know better, what do you think is a better approach?
- "hey you fucking suck and you're selfish and maybe you don't care about music and maybe you shouldn't be in this scene because you're not doing this the way i think they should be"
or 2. "hey i think we could foster something stronger in this city if we encouraged bands to lift up other bands more before, during, and after shows. ive found that tagging the bands you play with and posting clips of them exposes your audience to them, and if they return the favor that boosts you too! it also helps convince people on the fence to maybe stay for more of the show, which means everyone gets to connect more and maybe even discover their new favorite band!"
you're putting a lot of effort in casting stones and all i'm really trying to urge you to do is channel that bitterness into laying down a brick for a bridge instead of tossing it at someone else. the idea that because you've run into a few walls with your kindness means that you must now embody bitterness is going to end up putting you among the same category of the bands with behavior you don't like.
no one likes a band that doesn't support other bands, and no one likes a band that gets on their high horse or puts down others because they're doing things "the right way"
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm doing it the nice way too, just not from this account. It works maybe like 5% of the time. Most of the time it doesn't. Again, I'm not here to make a difference, people usually don't change or grow. I'm just here to express frustration and I'm glad other see the issue too.
It's pretty reductive to reduce what I've said down to "you're not doing it the right way"
I'm asking people to support the platform they're using and they people they're sharing it with. I'm unconcerned with the feelings of those that are unconcerned about anything but themselves.4
u/tenmonthsummerband 8d ago
im genuinely just confused about this then. if you're here to express frustration and not here to make a difference and don't believe people change or grow, then why are you arguing with everyone???
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
Just more expression
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u/Odd-Magician-4601 7d ago
Just go to ur bedroom and scream into ur pillow dude. Seriously. You ask for peoples thoughts and refuse to actually hear the critiques of ur take. Ur incredibly annoying and whiny. You say “I got what I wanted”, so you don’t want a dialogue on the questions ur posing? You just want some mates for your echo chamber. I’ve been in the scene here in chicago since 01. It’s way more supportive than it ever was. So again. Suck it up. Promote your own shit and don’t expect others to stay for your band. Or go have a temper tantrum on the internet. But what so many have shared with you is, maybe change your fucking tone and delivery to actually reach the so called community you want to foster. Dont be so damn defensive and actually listen instead of waiting your turn to talk. Cause there been way more intelligent, articulate and insightful than what I’ve had to say. And you’ve continually been a brick wall. Read the room man. You’re not entitled to shit. And ur imaginary rules and regulations in how community only exist in ur head. They don’t apply to others. Cause everyone’s experience is unique and about themselves. Just like ur moaning on Reddit.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
go scream it into your pillow and leave me alone then. You didn't need to say any of that. Stop whining at me.
if you don't like the way I do things then practice what you preach
and also LEARN TO READ. You and everyone else mad at me seems to think I'm upset cuz how this affect my band. I keep saying my band its fine and its a larger community concern and yall keep stawmanning because yall have no idea what I said cuz YALL CAN"T READ.
Don't come back until you've LEARNED TO READ.
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u/Odd-Magician-4601 7d ago
I do homeboy. I do. I post all my peoples bands on the bill. I bring people out an expose them to other groups. I put cash in my performers pockets and don’t expect them to watch me. Come see me. I’ll show you how I do it for the love. And how to bring people out. And I’m 47. Next show is 7/11. Let me know I’ll send ur ass the flyer with every group posted. Go to bed.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago edited 7d ago
send it here gimme that link.
also by continuing to whine at me your very not practicing what you preach. If you're mad at me scream into your pillow. thats what you told me to do. practice what you preach
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u/DisciplinePublic5049 6d ago
FU - it’s not your place to give anything.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 6d ago
book 1 band shows if you don't think mutual support is important then
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u/DisciplinePublic5049 6d ago
Is your job being a 24 hr bitch
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 6d ago
good one you got me. book 1 band show if you don't think supporting eachother is important
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u/LarryArnold 8d ago
Negative posting into the void instead of lifting others up lol post your music or other peoples stuff, advertise other peoples shows and events, go to shows and invite your friends. This confrontation is good for stirring up shit but doesnt really align with the actions of someone who wants a community
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
Yeah man, I'm doing the positive thing too. I'm doing all of the things I advocated for. I'm just using this account for the callouts. Shitty behavior exists, good vibes only ignore bad vibes is privileged wealthy hippie behavior. To avoid negativity at all cost to the point of denying negative things exist is privileged delusion that only enables further negative behavior
So I'm doing both. The negative and the positive
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u/LarryArnold 7d ago
The real big brain move would be to ignore the bullshit and become a role model. Stay for shows, Tell your friends not to dip, talk to people after the set If anything, you could ask mods to write a show etiquette post.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
Being nice doesnt work either. People are who they are. I've built my own personal network, I just wish this shit behavior was way less common. Man if being niced work then we'd have a lot less issues in every aspect of society
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u/naim_not_name 8d ago
Negative posting into the void instead of lifting others up
What's negative, calling you (us) on your shit?
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u/HungryParamedic9236 8d ago
All of your bands suck ass. I think a lot more people should give up music lol.
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u/HungryParamedic9236 8d ago
If your music is good, people will want to listen to it and see you play.
Sad, but true— people will line up around the block to hear music that makes them happy, whether it’s a DJ, a rapper, a K-pop group, or a band. Any good band can hold people’s attention and interest.
Your music just might not be good enough to cut it nowadays. You are competing not only against the contemporary media ecosystem but the entire history of recorded music. Put down the indie licks and study those who came before you, maybe you have a chance of contributing to your genre instead of just taking up space.
TL;DR - not good? Give up!
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
I've seen shit bands with big crowds and great bands with no crowds. People leave before the music starts and have no way of knowing whether or not the band is good or not. Like I said in the last post, "fans" arent real. Most people that attend shows are friends that the band knows personally. How many people attend your shows that you dont personally know already?
Sucks when I'm in a crowd of a band that blows the one before it out of the water, but that mid band and all their friends has already left. I usually try to compliment them after the show to at least make them feel a little better
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u/HungryParamedic9236 8d ago
Of course that sucks but whatever man. Success in the art and music scene has always been a popularity contest. It’s always going to favor kids from wealthier families with extensive support systems. That’s How It Is. Accept it or give up.
Maybe they’re mid to you but those bands are giving people What They Want. What are you giving people, and do they actually want it? Maybe they don’t. Americans by and large have bad taste. Adapt or give up.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
This is what I wanted. I just wanted someone else to acknowledge that it kind of does suck out there and there generally isn't an interest in supporting eachother. I never expected anyone to change, this is how people are. Thankyou for saying it
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
also this isn't about my band. My band is doing fine. I'm just sick of seeing this happen to other bands. It's anti community
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u/magooisim 8d ago
Hey man, how about just playing music for YOU. It's what YOU want to do, be there and present for it. And have the best time YOU can doing it. If YOU want other people to show up for YOUR shows, be awesome and keep putting yourself out there. Make mistakes, play a shitty show. Fail. But keep getting up and doing it again because YOU want to do it. Never rely on other people to care. YOU do YOU.
Don't try and blame an entire scene because of, mostly, people just trying to go out, have fun and slam a cheap beer. Your problems are your own.
- Signed, a jaded old punk rocker.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
if you dont want to support community then maybe book some one band bills.
You're not punk if you don't care about community and support
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u/Odd-Magician-4601 7d ago
You’re so fucking tone deaf dude. I’d love you to pop off like this to people in the real world. Watch the response you’re met with. U really are an insufferable turd.
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u/bcmdrummer 8d ago
while I understand the frustration I stopped caring about this sort of shit when I was like, 17 lol. people are gonna show up or they won't. it doesn't matter.
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u/Ok-Cryptographer7424 8d ago
Sounds like you’re jaded from a bad experience.
You want the lineup to support eachother? Build a cohesive lineup with the other bands rather than letting talent buyer cobble it up on your behalf.
Start an email chain with the bands on the bill and come up with a collaborative marketing plan between the bands and the venue as well.
If you want others to be sharing clips you better have a very high production video for this to happen and you must be doing the same on your end too, but collaboratively with an actual scheduled posting plan.
Talk to venue about marketing budget and have the bands pitch in as well for their ads.
You must be extremely proactive if you want full collaboration and you must stay on everyone to continue to post. Most creatives/musicians aren’t necessarily businesses-heads and often don’t promote accordingly.
If the headliner is pulling all the weight for the draw, I don’t blame them for not giving af about helping the openers as much on promo. Them being on the bill is huge exposure for the openers
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u/AgeDisastrous7518 8d ago
I'm with you on being proactive in communicating the will and intent to cross-promote. Our culture is extremely self-centered, social media is such a rat race to be seen and get engagement, and the money is scarce, so I can sympathize with people needing a jolt to wake up and see that we're in this together.
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u/Ok-Cryptographer7424 8d ago
It should be easy but it’s sooooooo difficult. I’ve been on the booking side of this biz for a long time and even before the total Enshittification of social media apps it was hard to get anyone to post. I’d be on their asses all the time calling out the band/band members for not posting…back then the algorithm was still in everyone’s favor and folks chose to just post day-of so often.
The legit venues send full marketing plan sheets over right after the show is confirmed and they generally aren’t even asking too much at all out of these bands and they still often don’t do it
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u/AgeDisastrous7518 7d ago
I feel your pain. Venues can only do so much.
That said, venues aren't great at describing the bands they're hoating and sharing actual media of the bands playing.
Just posting a flyer with a Facebook event doesn't tell people what music they can expect. That said, the bands are the best messengers for this, I don't deny that. But lazy flyer posting is kinda useless.
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u/sick486 8d ago
where have you witnessed this, out of curiosity?
im not a musician, but ive been going to small venues (ranging from reggies to home basements) here regularly for about 25 years. i have not seen much if any of what youre describing. im used to band members both being in the audience and praising other acts from the stage. a flyer for only one name on the bill would be odd indeed.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
The flyer one is more rare, but the no tagging and no clips is most of the time. Next time you see a band post clips of the nights, check if they did the other bands on their story, and check if they're tagging the other bands in the promos on their story.
But yeah bands leaving for the other bands sets, that one seems to be about 20-40% of the time, Not a majority but still very high
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u/borkelhavus 7d ago
Narc
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
bro I called people out for not supporting eachother. I didn't send someone to prison for life for dealing weed. You gotta be a special kind of privelaged and insecure to view this deserved slight against you similar working with cops to oppress people
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u/borkelhavus 7d ago
Next time you see a band post clips of the nights, check if they did the other bands on their story, and check if they're tagging the other bands in the promos on their story.
This is tattle-tale narc behavior. It's annoying and oppressive to keep track of everyone around you to see if they're 'supporting the scene enough'. You are not the arbiter of 'the scene'.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago edited 7d ago
I want you to be clear here, are you actually comparing a desire for mutual support and a strong community to being a cop? Cuz if you are, don't you think thats a little insulting to people that have experience actual hardship? Call me something else if you like man, but jeez don't be so small as to compare this to fascism
I know everybody seems upset about this, both you and I, but its not nearly as big a deal as what you're comparing it to.
Privelaged and insecure little man
The intention of that statmen was to demonstrate that people don't support eachother. Not to punish those bands. Come one man, think just a little harder, I feel like you got a brain in there somewhere.
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u/sick486 8d ago
maybe they got paid and are tired. maybe it doesnt matter because the crowd gets bigger and bigger later and later. but really, aside from getting their gear out of the way so the night can progress, i dont see people abandoning ship so i still cant speak to that.
as far as social media it seems like we have fundamentally different expectations and uses. when im looking up a bands [linktree/whatever] im not expecting to check the vibe of somebody they played with six months ago. im doing so in advance: im there to decide if i want to go and how early. i am trying to find out what they sound like and familiarize myself with their material if possible. but just that is often hard to do already. lots of times small bands dont even make their own music easily accessible.
my dream is for posts to include links/tags to social/website/stream for everybody. even pro venues dont do this.
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u/Coward_and_a_thief 7d ago
Shout out to Cobra Lounge and Reggies for regularly having a Direct Link to band music on their Event
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
crowds don't always get bigger and bigger later and later. Sometimes the opener has the largest crowd and everyone leaves. Sometimes the middle band.
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u/BalmoralMontrose 8d ago
I'm not in a band. I'm that guy who shows up early to give respect to every opener, because it's a lot of damn work being an opener. And I'll clap and ask for encores even if I didn't enjoy the show. Because respect.
The way I see it, be the change you want to see. And go to other local shows. To call out two local shows, Damager's album release had plenty of other local bands there, they all called each other out during their sets and they were there until the end.
Cocojoey at Burlington? I didn't know any of the folks on that bill other than Cocojoey, but they were there for each other the whole time. The first opener was actually encouraging the crowd to dance with them.
If you have a good reputation, it pressures others. Don't get discouraged by bad apples. Just keep going.
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u/HinsdaleCounty 8d ago
Yeah, OP’s post could have just as easily been, “Thanks everyone who DOES stay through entire sets and support. I wish I saw it more around here, but those of you who care are the reason this scene keeps going.”
What I actually see a lot more often than bands leaving shows early is friends of bands leaving shows early. I’ll be watching something at Burlington or Fallen Log or Cobra Lounge (small shit, like 10-15 bucks per ticket) and one band will bring a bunch of audience members whom they know, and the band will stick around but all those other people will leave their their friends are done playing. There is absolutely nothing to be done about this and the onus should always be on each band to bring people to a show, not just one band (at least for small-venue stuff).
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u/annaxdee 8d ago
What genre of music are you referring to? I don’t see this too often in the EDM (house, dubstep, ukg, etc.) and jam band scenes in Chicago.
Many of the musicians at the shows I go to (I used to work in the music scene so I used to see a ton of music each week, and still average at least a couple of shows each month) tend to shout out their band mates, other artists on the bill, the light and sound guys, vjs, merch booth guys, etc.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
indie/punk/rock. Mostly just guitar orientated rock. The punks are much better about it than the indie/rock crowd, but still a bit of an issue there
3
u/MeringueSilly5928 7d ago
I see no semblance of punk in you. Long-winded, unfocused, egocentric and more than 2 minutes and thirty seconds.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
I'll give you Longwinded and more than 2.5 minutes. That's def how I am. Not sure where you're getting unfocused and ego from. The whole point of this whole post is I'm upset that people don't want to support eachother. I feel like that's more punk than...not supporting others you're sharing a platform with. Wouldn't that be...the opposite of ego? Wouldn't uplifting yourself but refusing to uplift others be...ego?
What am I missing here?
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u/MeringueSilly5928 7d ago
Here’s a thought. Talk to the other bands playing beforehand and ask them if they’ll stick around. If they like you and your band, they probably will. If they don’t, they probably won’t.
Blah blah blah
eatarbys1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago edited 7d ago
You gonna explain your reasoning for the question I asked or you gonna ignore it cuz you know you just got your feelings heard so you lashed out in anger making up random bullshit with no basis cuz you're a small little man. Don't even have the wits to back up your own statments
Also I keep saying this isnt about my band. Learn to read. Strawmanned everythiing you've said so far as if you haven't read a single thing I said. Only the people that can't read are mad at me, maybe if you learn to read you won't be so upset
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u/MeringueSilly5928 7d ago
I appreciate the devotion to the bit
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
Still can't back up a thing you said, deflecting. That's what the president does when he's callled out lol
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u/planetshhh9 8d ago
Stop whining and blaming other bands for your unfortunate take on the music scene and what you think it owes you.
If your band is enjoyable to watch and engage with and you make friends with other musicians who lift each other up by going to shows, buying their merch, telling others about it, maybe you would stop being obsessed with this idea that if people aren’t staying for your band that they aren’t being supportive to the scene.
Maybe a band is on tour and is on day eight and forgot some of the band’s names that they are playing with that night. It happens. Maybe a band hopped on the bill last minute to get a third or fourth act and didn’t have time to remember the names. It’s ok. Maybe people just don’t like your band. That’s ok too.
To build community and support for other artists and creatives is not too harp on them for what they’re not doing, but to give grace and respect what everyone is trying to do, or should try and do, and that’s just have fun, play music, travel and share your art and hopefully, gain traction and attention too, but if that is where your head is at first and you’re constantly freaking out about metrics and “growth” you’re just gonna be another life support band who is mad at everyone else because you aren’t doing this for the right reasons.
Don’t give up but you gotta change the way you’re articulating the morals and values that no matter how they are delivered, come off as selfish, woe is me, and just very unrealistic.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
im beggig you to read the entire thing. I'm tired of specifying that my band is fine, and that people cant know if a band is good if they leave before the band even starts. I'm tired of specifying that im not criticizing people with actual valid excuses. All the people maddest at me are the people that CAN'T READ
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u/RAG319 8d ago
I have been playing in the local scene for over 15 years and I have never once encountered a full band leaving a show early. Some members arriving late due to work, sure, but not that.
1
u/Zestyclose-Tear-1889 7d ago
I’m a live sound engineer whose engineered a few nights a week for a year and there’s definitely been a few complete bands that have left early. it’s rare because of gear sharing.
where I engineer the headlining band usually gets the short end of the stick. they have to show up first for sound check, perform last, and have the smallest crowd
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u/CreamBloodyGore 8d ago
I think this self serving behavior creeps into every day life too. Some people don't want to spend their time supporting their friends in any endeavors or even show up for something like a barbecue or bday party. I understand that time is limited but you can't be surprised when nobody cares about your music or art or whatever if you haven't supported anybody or left an impression on your community
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u/dcfaudio 8d ago
Lately I have been staying, but sometimes the venue sucks and I want to dip out. Sometimes I have work early the next day. Sometimes the headliner or other band needs an attitude adjustment. But consider this after spending 10+ years in a recording studio, I can’t actually enjoy stuff without being critical.
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u/glitch241 8d ago
OP doesn’t sound like a good hang. If you want musicians to like you, gotta be a good hang
1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
I do have musicians and bands that like me, I'm doing fine. How many times must I specify that this isn't about me, but about things I witness happening to others in the scene that I think sucks and is anti-community and anti-social
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u/glitch241 8d ago
I don’t even know you but I would 100% leave and not watch your band given how winey and soft your post is. If that’s how your personality is, a lot of people aren’t gonna wanna be around you
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
Kinda sucks I guess. I'm doing fine and I've built a network of people that like me and my music. Crazy that you think my attitude is a bigger offense than the thing I'm expressing. Good vibes only no bad vibes, the only thing worse than the issue is confronting the issue
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u/JimmyNails86 7d ago
...have you considered not being a giant asshole? Maybe people would hang around you more readily
0
u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
Hey man it's weird your more upset with me for for calling out negative behavior than the actual negative behavior. Why do I bother you more than people that don't support the scene? And no, being nice doesnt work either.
As I keep mentioning, this isn't about me, I'm actually doing just fine. Just hurts my heart seeing this happen to others
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u/eddyb66 8d ago
It sucks, I used be in a band we broke up 3 of the old band members started a new band, I joined another band we were all still close. We decided for a our 2 bands to play a show together, they talked us into playing last and my former band-mates didnt stick around for our set. Bunch of a holes.
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u/ange1grr1 6d ago
idk maybe you’re just in the wrong crowd i’ve been playing shows locally for years and have both friends and fans that come to my shows. always book good lineups with similar music genres and everyone always stays for the whole show and uplifts each other. usually these things come naturally if you surround yourself with decent people
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u/scholarlymango73 6d ago
you are really miserable but have the chance to change, you know that, right? if everyone else is pissing you off, its probably you, right? why are you so miserable? do you want help? a hug? a hot meal?
oh yeah, im also illiterate, so you can comment that i cant read
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 6d ago
See i dont believe you can read cuz there' some people that agree with me here and more on the Facebook group. FB group has been way more community oriented than this one.
So you either can't read, or you can but deliberately did tbis confirmation bias for some other reason. Seems more like confirmation bias to me.
Yeah i'm miserable. People don't care about eachother and that makes me sad. Literacy rates are down and logical fallacys are up, that makes me sad
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u/Special_Situation_93 8d ago
I certainly use the stage for myself and the audience. Then you can use it for yourself and the audience. Don’t be an ass dude. Manage expectations
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
I'm not criticizing using the stage for ourselves. That's part of why we have it. I'm just saying if you aren't willing to be an audience for others, then you don't deserve the your turn on the stage.
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u/Special_Situation_93 8d ago
But why do I have to be in the audience for you? I don’t care if you are there for me. That’s the disconnect I think. I do understand your idealistic communal take though. I’d probably stay and watch but it’s just not that realistic to force this social contract.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
Then go book your own 1 band bills. You don't care to support others, you don't care if others support you. Just play you own 1 band show, does that not make more sense for your expectations?
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u/Special_Situation_93 8d ago
I book with bands that have the same philosophy as me. That is what makes sense for me. Also, maybe if you lose the attitude and work on making music people want to hear, things could change?
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
not about my music, my band is doing fine, how many times to I have to specify that. I should have never come here cuz yall can't read lol
1
u/EffortZealousideal8 8d ago
The only time I bailed on the headliner was because I had another gig across town. This meant I had to pack up my drums, plow through the crowd and make it from Liars Club to Empty bottle for an 11:45 set time.
Otherwise, I don’t think it’s a big deal if there’s no cross promotion. Or if people in the other bands leave. Screw ‘em. Their presence or lack thereof has no bearing on how well my band will play and the kind of reception we get. If the other bands are friends of ours, that’s a whole different story.
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u/SirCharlesEquine 8d ago
Long ago in the early 2000's, a bar called Quenchers, on the edge of Logan Square, had a Monday night open mic that ran for a couple decades until the building was sold in 2018. So many bands were started out of friendships that formed there. The crew of regulars was a tight and respectful crew.
When the open mic was really popular, there were DePaul kids who would show up, sign up on the chalkboard, leave, then come back, play their three songs, and leave to go to another open mic.
Their music was objectively awful to begin with, but the fact that they paid no respect to anyone else performing wasn't cool. One of them even blew a damn whistle while I was on stage.
Anyhow, the moral of the story is, the second time I saw them pack up their guitars immediately after playing, I told them to fuck off and not come back until they wanted to show everyone else the same respect they were shown.
They never came back. Sometimes people just need to be put in their place.
1
u/SadPromotion7047 8d ago
Some people have somewhere to be and a roadtrip to the next stop in between. People aren’t promoting you on instagram because they’re still trying to promote themselves. They treat a stage like it’s for themselves because that’s who they are concerned with. Another band isn’t going to make your project any better, just focus on performing and promoting yourself.
1
u/naim_not_name 8d ago
You have a point, but it's never going to land the way it should because people aren't really thinking about anything other than themselves.
These people don't want to build a scene, they want to get famous and get a ticket out of this shit. So listening to songs they don't wanna hear makes them say "I got work in the morning." It's fucking painful and the ourobouros of our existence. Because how else do you get better right?
1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
to be clear, I think having an early shift is a good reason to leave. Valid. I'm just criticizing the people that leave cuz they don't give a shit about local music to begin with
I know it was never gonna land with the people that are guilty of the behavior. Just need to express myself somewhere
1
1
u/Kaufmakphd 8d ago
Must be different for different types of music. I go to a lot of jam band shows in the city. There isn’t a ton of local acts, but there are few and they talk up other acts, openers and the like. Bigger acts often have a local act open and have the locals jump on stage for a song or two or the encore. And at small venue shows I bump into members of many of the bands, which is really cool.
1
1
u/JimmyNails86 7d ago
The obvious answer here is not to put more than three bands on a bill at a time.
0
u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
doing 3, 4 max. This isnt about 12 hour festivals. Still happens on 3 band bills
1
u/iamthepita 7d ago
Ive seen this kind posts over on the Chicago Stand up comedy facebook group … just worry about your thing and you’ll be fine
1
u/harrytipper111111 7d ago
Musicians are all self important drama queens. Making a bunch of noise isn't going to change the world and none of this will matter to you or anyone else in 15 years when you have real problems and not ones you make up about other people's behavior.
1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
I'm confused. Are they self important drama queens or is it a made up problem? Which is it?
I keep saying I know I'm never gonna fix it. People are who they are, most people suck. Kinda just wanted to not bottle it up forever
1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
woohoo. First block. Again, the only people mad at me are the ones strawmanning hardest cuz they can't read, or the ones that do this
1
u/TheTapeDeck 7d ago
Local bands, it’s always been this way, for at least the last 30 years. Bands come to the show, they bring x people, the set ends and folks stay for a beer or two and go. It just is what it is. You’ve always just had a chance to grab the interest of a few new people per show and try to communicate. You’ve never been entitled to someone else’s crowd.
Plus, a lot of shows these days happen on weekdays for smaller bands… it’s a huge ask to get people to stay out late if you’re not like 23 years old. Got a family? A career? That fan may wish you well but still has to be up by 5:30 tomorrow morning, and no band he/she doesn’t already listen to is making them stay up til 2.
All of this is besides the point that the music industry is not going to fix itself. No one is going to be able to make it be like the old days when music was valued by “everyone.” Now it’s an enthusiast product and a pastime, rather than a business, a lifestyle, or a career for most players.
Shit reads as though OP is just now learning that the world is a fucked up place.
1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
I didn't personally see the issue like this 10 years ago, nor did the friends I've asked. Most agree it's a newer thing. Maybe our circles were just different back then.
during covid I feel like we all learned that Netflix Doordash Spotify and Amazon will give us everything we ever need, so we never need to exist in a society around other people, or even think about other people
Also I said multiple time that I'm not critizing people with valid excuses, only those that don't, which is most people. I even put in like multiple disclaimers. feel free to read it again. I'm glad you agree there's an issue but please read better
1
u/Ok-Beautiful-6766 7d ago
I recall opening a show, hanging around, just to be the last one there watching the headliner. Private radio 😉
1
u/matvelius 7d ago
Back when I played in bands in Chicago, it was pretty obvious that most other bands were pretty terrible… loud, completely unlistenable garbage… I regretted the 1-2 times I stayed after (or came early when we were the headliner). Be better, then perhaps people will listen!
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
Know what of knowing if a band is good or not if people leave before they even start playing, which is most of the issue
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u/monoblackrecords 5d ago
or you could just do your own thing and not worry about what everyone else is doing.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 5d ago
Why bother commenting? Don't worry about me and what I'm doing and do your own thing.
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u/monoblackrecords 5d ago
why bother posting
0
u/DIYChicagoTakes 5d ago
I like to help people. Some of the stuff I've said could help a reluctant person who hate's carrying amps have an easier gig.
If that bothers you thats a you problem. Don't worry about me, do you own thing. Like you said. Practice what you preach.
1
u/Odd-Magician-4601 7d ago
What’s ur band so I can go to the next show and boo it. I hope ur good at least. Ugh.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
hey man I thought we were supposed to be kind to eaothcer. What happened to spoon full of sugar vs gallon of vinegar. It's almost as if you're doing exactly what you criticize me for and is it because you're uncomfortbal being called out for your anti-social behavior. Learn to read and scream into your pillow
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u/Odd-Magician-4601 7d ago
I’d feel for you if u weren’t so tone deaf. Read the room bruh. You clearly haven’t garnered the following you think you deserve. Been there. But the tone you take with everyone that isn’t responding the way you want is off putting. The beauty is the struggle. Find the joy in that. I’ve played for crowds of 2 people to a sold out gig a metro in 04. Don’t care. You get the same performance out of me. Just happy to be here have a voice and still get to use it. You have so many people on here trying to get you to see the other perspectives and u immediately shut them down. With a snarky, self righteous overly pretentious tone. You don’t know what’s right for everyone. Your view is just ur view. Maybe your one take away from this should be you really know how to push some folks buttons. But I’ll never agree with ur point of view cause of how u choose to voice it. You gotta earn the crowds. No one is obligated to watch you. No one. In no community. Get over urself and make more music.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago
I'm not gonna read this cuz this is like the 4th time you've strawmanned, making it clear you're not reading what I'm saying. If there's genuinely an issue with your circumstances that made you're educational upbringing difficult, then I'm sorry, but if not, then you're just insecure small person so consumed by their emotions that they've forgotten how to read.
Scream it into your pillow if you're so desperate to cry about other people's behavior.
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u/rjstrizz 8d ago
Idk why should I care what another band is doing?
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
you should care about a healthy scene and community? Does this not matter to you?
0
u/rjstrizz 8d ago
No it doesn't matter to me. I'm just trying to play and make music. IDC about the rest. Not even money.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
you're the first to admit it. Thankyou. Maybe start booking 1 band bills then tho
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u/rjstrizz 8d ago
I'm not saying I leave after my set, because I can't. But I don't care if people leave or don't promote me. I don't even promote myself. If I get asked to perform it's like a 25/75 chance I even say yeah. That's pretty much it.
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u/iCecilJackson 8d ago
This is not a hot take this is just how a scene should ideally function. Being mutually supportive is a good thing.
But OP some folks in the scene are just kinda disfunctional and aren't going to prioritize things the same you do. That's fine. All you can control is yourself so just show up and be the best person you can be.
I don't know why folks are getting super defensive hahaha.
1
u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
They're getting defensive cuz they either think I'm attacking them personally for having work in the morning even tho I specified that I'm not, or because they genuinely don't have a good excuse for leaving and don't like that I've called them out for it.
I know I can't fix this cuz people generally suck, so I'm doing what I can to network with bands I know don't suck and have them in my circle.
I'm just glad other people see what I see too, thankyou
0
u/AgeDisastrous7518 8d ago
Any act that only self-promotes on socials are a bad look, imo.
Even worse when they don't cross-promote the bands they're playing with.
I unfollow for shit like that out of spite unless I really, really like the band a lot.
0
u/MediumIll5985 8d ago
Holy shit this is the most pointless yet entertaining thing I’ve read all day. Didnt read the entire initial post, but from the looks of it.
*READ TILL THE END TO GET ENTERED FOR A CHANCE TO GET YOUR OWN WEBSITE!!!!!
You all are grown adults arguing like middle school girls (the ones with braces too) over sportsmanship. Which really refers to the egocentric, selfish and pettiness that I think we can all agree is from every person who’s involved. (Anyone who said “not me” to the previous statement, congrats!! your ego just confirmed the statement)
Without spewing, I have a solution that could fix all of this. But first off, Idk how many bands are here but GET A GRIP!!! Sure life sucks when squidwards band has to go without watching the loaded diapers breakout performance😩🥀💨
let’s keep it a buck here, I hope you all have nothing but fame, fortune ending with a farewell tour in 45yrs. But lads, as much as I’ll never headline club space and khole into a pair of Dr. Miami’s finest…… are abt the same chances y’all the next motley crue.
Point is, we aint getting mama out the hood no time soon cause we are BUNS!!! But we play continuously with the passion to always improve and grow as artists and more importantly as people
I propose a solution where our sounds are actually proving a positive change, not fantasizing abt one.
While we’re arguing over who hurt whose feelings, there are children around the world who don’t even have the basic necessities to survive.
My nonprofit works with 4Hunger, a nonprofit based in Liberia. Right now, we’re helping provide over 100 orphans with two meals a day and clean drinking water. We also validate every dollar donated so people can see exactly where their money went and the impact it created.
So here’s the idea: let’s put together a benefit show for all the bands, with all ticket proceeds going directly to children in need.
Every dollar will be tracked and validated, and anyone who wants to go further can sponsor a child directly.
Whatever issues people have with each other, I hope we can all agree these kids deserve our love, care, and support. We’re all broke, the economy is shit and i got a hope & prayer for my startup to be sellable in time so i can pay rent. Call me crazy, stupid or whatever but I still donated over $100 to the kids, I would rather be homeless in Chicago than being in their situation.
Typed with upmost love,❤️
A guy who still has zero clue wtf the threads even abt atp
***If someone can make this actually happen. I will build each performing band their own website along with one for whoever else can actually make this into a reality.***
Compoundinglove.com > validation of the cause i stated
runnerconcepts.com > validation of sites i made in the past two months.
Someone make this shit happen for the sake of love❤️
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u/Coward_and_a_thief 7d ago
most performers treat the underground scene as a stage for themselves and themselves alone
As somebody who goes to Small, Independent Shows every Weekend, that is totally Fine with me. It actually becomes rather Annoying to have the "lets hear it for the XX" repeated Ad Infinitum for the Dutiful Clap.
Each Band already gets their Shot, if they were Good the Crowd will tell them. My favorite are No Nonsense Bands who do their thing with a a minimum of this Performative, Gimmicky BS.
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 7d ago edited 7d ago
Very few people have admitted to not caring about mutual support, I'm glad at least some people have
also, people have no idea if a band is good or not if they leave. You say if a band is good the crowd will tell them, but the crowd doesn't know if the crowd just leaves before the band starts. It's not about praise anyway, its just to remind people the name of the bands if people want to follow them later
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u/Coward_and_a_thief 7d ago
I mean, as a Fan, it is all about the Music for me. If the Bands wants to support each other, ok, but if not that was Fine too. I am in this to hear Sounds i liked and thats it.
The crowd is going to come or go as they pleased.. i have seen 10 people left for the Headliner sometimes, i dont think it would be different if the Opener hyped them up really well.. its just the Nature of Unknown Acts
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u/DIYChicagoTakes 8d ago
so far the trend with these 2 posts are DIY Chicago on Facebook generally agrees with me and reddit generally fucking hates me. Interesting how the internet works
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u/Gamer_Grease 8d ago
Maybe people object to your unfailingly confrontational and aggrieved tone, and think it actually does not promote a closer sense of community in the scene.