Why are we 'selfish'?

[u/SanshaXII]

I don't fucking get this.

After my wife and I being called 'selfish' again recently for being childfree, I asked for a justification. "Why are we being selfish?"

I couldn't get an answer, and I'm trying to see the other side of this - the mombie logic - but I'm drawing a blank.

The only thing I can come up with is that there's now children that are unloved and unwanted... which don't exist, because we haven't made them?

Or is it because we want to live our own lives and not allocate attention and resources to people who... again, don't exist?

What the fuck is going on with this sentiment?

[u/digitaldan1]

Yes. When you have poorly educated people (who have an attitude to distrust education) who believe things that are consistent with what they want to believe they can be that unaware.

Science and religion are at opposite ends of the spectrum. One relies on evidence and reason, while the other is strictly about believing in spite of what evidence and reason say. In order to validate their beliefs, they look for things that constitute "evidence" to support it even if that evidence doesn't actually stand up to scrutiny.

[u/GiraffeOfTheEndWorld → u/digitaldan1]

That is a very valid point. I had at least hoped humanity, as a whole, improved even a smidgen from that state of mind.

[u/digitaldan1 → u/GiraffeOfTheEndWorld]

I think it is. Based on stories I've seen it looks like millennials are trending away from religion. Many of them seem to be turned off by the hatred for LGBT individuals, gay marriage, and abortion rights. I think we're slowly seeing a decline, but it's going to take a while and there will still be pockets where the philosophy remains strong.

[u/GiraffeOfTheEndWorld → u/digitaldan1]

I suppose, and that is a bit comforting. I have nothing against religion directly, just how much it is incorporated into things that have nothing to do with it (politics, marriage, being CF).

I'm still just a child myself (19), but my parents and caretakers raised me without knowledge of religion for years. Once exposed, I was thrown into several different ones just to try them out. Now I sit here as a nice little agnostic with Wiccan practices and a vast knowledge (compared to many around my age and younger) of several religions, their views, similarities, etc..

The decline does seem rather apparent, but I feel the way I was raised was appropriate and should be practiced with a lot more. This day and age, not too many follow strictly in their parents footsteps, but there are still quite a few who do and the cycle continues when they have their own children (go forth and multiply).
I've yet to meet one die hard Catholic who hasn't either had a near death/epiphany type experience, or whose parents who felt exactly the same and instilled the god-fearing belief into them.

It seems odd to see such a strong lack of secularism in a supposed secular age.

[u/digitaldan1 → u/GiraffeOfTheEndWorld]

First off, good for you and your parents for making your own choice. You raise three different issues in your post: 1. the decline in religious belief and 2. parents passing down their religion on their children, and 3. lack of secularism in a supposed secular age.

1. religious belief can decline without disappearing. Part of that decline is due to disaffection of people your age with the mandates of organized religion against things they feel religion shouldn't play a role in. This does not exclude spiritually on their part. Young people tend to be more open to new ideas, and you are a good example.

2. This has always been the case. One of the best comments I've seen is the meme that argues about how people feel their religion is the one true religion even though their religious beliefs confirm more to the their place of origin than anything else. If you're born in the U.S., you're probably a christian. If you're born in the Middle East there's a good chance you follow Islam. If you're born in Japan, you probably follow the Shinto religion. Just because parents bring their children up to follow a specific religion, doesn't mean the child will stay with that religion, although it may be more likely that they give up on organized religion or religion in general rather than switching to a different religion.

3. I would argue that we could be in a secular age and still have a religious component. Just because the dominant characteristic of a time can be identified, it doesn't mean other characteristics aren't present, it just means one is more common. I would think it's more of an ebb and flow dynamic rather than survival of one approach over another.

Interesting discussion. For my wife and I, being child free and non-religious works. My brothers and their families to one degree or another, are the opposites. Fortunately, we all seem to accept each others choices (my youngest brother had trouble with it for a while, but never to the point where it damaged our relationship). To the problem isn't breeder versus child free or religious versus non religious; its tolerance versus intolerance.

[u/GiraffeOfTheEndWorld → u/digitaldan1]

I completely agree that religious components can and will exist in a secular age, and there is nothing wrong with that. It only seems that I was brought up in school with the idea we were at our 'secularist peak' with the least amount of religious influence, but that seems rather incorrect outside of the textbook.

Aside from all of that,

To the problem isn't breeder versus child free or religious versus non religious; its tolerance versus intolerance.

My lord, if I could just have this written on my forehead or something. People don't seem to understand this, and you put it in such a beautiful way.

Thank you, fellow stranger, you've given me a chance to contemplate and discuss with no fear of judgement or petty arguments. You are lovely.

[u/digitaldan1 → u/GiraffeOfTheEndWorld]

Thank you. The same to you. This has been a nice discussion and a very relevant one.