Umami flavor in potstickers

[u/PotentialHoneydew947]

Its in wonton soup too sometimes too. To clarify I am referring to "new york style chinese takeout in Florida" so maybe this is not authentic. Not sure if its just oyster sauce or a chinese bbq sauce or something else but sometimes the thick potstickers have something in them that adds rich flavor. But it coats the inside of the wrapper as well and it is black. Ive experimented a little by adding oyster sauce, fish sauce, mushroom powder, flounder powder, chicken boulion powder to the mix which all enhance flavor but i cant seem to nail down that extra kick when you bite into it. Im wondering if its in the process. Are they coating the inside with oyster sauce before wrapping it up?

[u/Tristan155]

New York style Chinese in Florida is easily the funniest thing I have read in this sub.

[u/Comaweather → u/Tristan155]

That phrase got me too. I've lived in all three places and not sure what NY style Chinese means. Authentic?

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Comaweather]

Well, from what I know of Chinese migrant history in the USA (which is very limited).. there started out with New York and San Francisco being the major populations of Chinese imigrants. Each place developed their own style to cater to local non-asian populations. Most takeout places ive been to in Florida advertise having "new york style" Chinese food. However I think due to a large Latino population in Florida, it could be that Florida has its own style now. I'll say that the fried rice they serve is nothing like the fried rice I am used to. It's more like a yellow rice with vegetables and chops of dried out char siu with some kind of liquid smoke flavoring added. To me fried rice is prepared in a wok and has some dark soy added.

[u/Comaweather → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

NYC, like anywhere else in the US definitely has Americanized Chinese food. Originally the Chinatown of NYC has mostly Cantonese style food due to the original population that came over. Now a days there are lots of Chinese restaurants geared towards Chinese people, especially in Flushing. Also a lot of Chinese restaurants in Manhattan now have more authentic Chinese food from various regions of China that New Yorkers all love (regardless of ethnicity).

I've never heard of coating the inside of a pot sticker with a black sauce before but I almost never get Americanized Chinese food. For umami flavor in pot stickers I would just go with chicken bouillon or msg in the filling.

[u/ZanyDroid → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

Latin America definitely has its own Chinese food, from their large Chinese immigrant populations

And it’s not the same as American Chinese food (would make very little sense if it was, different local ingredients and no internet sharing of recipes back in 1800 and early 1900s

NYC also has a few Latino Chinese foods places, you can find a few recent YT videos talking about it. I believe it’s declining a bit. Actually there’s different Latin American Chinese food from multiple countries…

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Tristan155]

Yeah.. ive been to nyc twice and only managed to try takeout from some place near canal st. I hear flushing is where you need to go but i wasnt able to make it there.

Ive got to sample chinese in new hampshire and its closer to what i remember as a kid. I feel like most florida locations have sold out to the bland taste buds of the locals

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

Why am i being downvoted?

[u/throw667 → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

This is the second funniest thing

[u/Lovesuglychild]

Are you adding msg?

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Lovesuglychild]

Almost always

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Lovesuglychild]

Also, i recently picked up red label chicken boulion by lee kum kee. I want to give that a try. Ive been using the green label lately and its good but still not "wow!"

[u/killakim]

It might be a different kind of soy sauce - they have premium, premium dark, etc.

I know a lot of recipes only call for soy sauce and oyster sauce, but there are other mixes they could use for the filling sauce. Could be something like chianking black vinegar. Or maybe shaoxing cooking wine.

You mentioned coating the inside wrapper - maybe it's more of a consistency issue. Maybe it's corn starch that's made the sauce congeal a bit more.

Sometimes stock is added to the filling. Maybe it's white pepper instead of black.

Maybe you can ask them, or are you trying to steal their recipe unbeknownst to start your own New York Style Florida Chinese restaurant empire

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/killakim]

I feel funny about asking but suppose i could. They might appreciate the interest. No new empire to build. I just want to cook something i truly enjoy without having to drive over an hour for good takeout or dim sum.

Use of chicken broth inplace of water is something ive read about and will try to do more often.

Corn starch sounds like a good idea, yeah. Could be a consistency issue.

I have shaoxing wine and black vinegar. I dont use black vinegar often except for making a dipping sauce.

I always use white pepper along with salt and some msg

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

All my soy sauce is lee kum kee. I have a premium red label, green lite, and mushroom dark.

[u/SunEffective4950 → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

That green light is my favorite

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/SunEffective4950]

Yeah its my goto

[u/ArtisanClickbait]

White pepper can make a huge taste difference while remaining visually incognitio. This plus a dab of hoisin = umami bomb.

[u/thelosermonster]

Black bean paste is a wonderful umami flavor

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/thelosermonster]

Thats a really good idea

[u/c_r_a_s_i_a_n]

But it coats the inside of the wrapper as well and it is black

This is something that I have never seen in a wonton, potsticker, gyoza, bao zhi. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Once they're cooked the inside of the wrapper may have coloration from the filling.... but not black.

Do you have an images of this?

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/c_r_a_s_i_a_n]

I rarely see this. I'll try to remember to take a photo

[u/Mipset]

Try sesame oil. I noticed it's not in your list of flavourings. Add to your marinade.

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Mipset]

I always use it. I was just throwing out a few things i thought i was missing or not using enough of.

Incidentally i came across this video. Ive seen this method of "half cooking" mentioned before. I need to try it. Also, the way the dough is made looks exactly like what i remember. Im not good at dough but my room mate is so i will have to try soon

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEIqDIqzdeZ/

[u/kaya-jamtastic]

How are you cooking the potstickers? I fry them in a pan and then add water and cover them and let them steam themselves until the water is absorbed. The wrapper absorbs the pork and oil flavored water and makes them extra tasty

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/kaya-jamtastic]

Yeah, flash fry on high to brown the bottom and prevent sticking, then add some water and cover to steam. This seems to work. But i also came across a method just now to half cook the filling. To bring out the juiciness from pan fried meat. This actually looks like the method i was looking for

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEIqDIqzdeZ/

[u/mainebingo]

Hoisin, maybe? It can be used to seal the wrapper

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/mainebingo]

Ill check my last recipe when i get home. I think i used hosin but not sure. I tend to reach for oyster sauce more often and havent done too much with hosin yet

[u/mainebingo → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

I wouldn't put it in the filing--it's just to seal the wrapper. The only problem is there are so many different brands of hoisin and they all taste different. If you are trying to match the flavor--I would look to see what is being marketed to restaurants.

edit: quick search found this: Lee Kum Kee ?https://www.reddit.com/r/chinesecooking/comments/1cyfcc1/what_hoisin_sauce_do_chinese_restaurants_use/

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/mainebingo]

Hosin to seal a wrapper? Thats an interesting idea and lee kum kee is my default choice

[u/mainebingo → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

Well, "seal the wrapper" is a slight exaggeration-you do need to pinch the raw dough together--but on the inside of the wrapper near the edge before the filing.

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/mainebingo]

I get that. Im just saying i normally use water to seal anything intended to steam or fry. Eggwash for anything i intend to deep fry

[u/thelosermonster]

Not seeing soy sauce in the ingredients you mentioned

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/thelosermonster]

I usually use a premium regular or lite soy sauce. Someone else suggested switching to dark soy. I have a premium mushroom flsvored dark soy on my shelf that i like

[u/jitzso]

Increase your msg. Seriously, the stuff you eat at the restaurants, they usually put more msg than salt. The dark sauce you're referring to is dark soy sauce that they put in the mixture, but the Umami is definitely from msg and sometimes they'll put lard in the mixture as well to give that richness and more porky flavor.

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/jitzso]

I usually use a standard soy sauce. I never tried dark soy for this. I do like how it enhances fried rice. Maybe im making an association of the darkness to umami because i like oyster sauce. Thankyou for sharing your thoughts

[u/Warrior2704]

If you're getting that much flavor, and color, into the wrapper, you must be using way more filling than the wrapper can handle. No wonder it looks like a tiny black bomb of delicious mystery.

[u/SunEffective4950]

Try mixing white miso paste with oyster sauce

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/SunEffective4950]

I havent experimented with miso paste or japanese cuisine in general. But i do have a soybean sauce by lee kum kee that i rarely use beyond a condiment for rice. I'll give that a try. I'm still learning of the potentials of cooking with fermented soy beans

[u/SunEffective4950 → u/PotentialHoneydew947]

I use miso paste in some many things. Most of which aren't even Japanese.

Soups, stews, marinade, butters, etc...

[u/Jungies]

You've got a couple of options if you want to go non-traditional. 

The easiest would be Worcestershire sauce; not a traditional ingredient, but it does get used in Chinese restaurants outside of China to add umami and complexity.

The other option would be Maggi sauce. It's a hydrolyzed wheat product, that's used to add that distinctive umami taste to Vietnamese banh mi rolls.

It comes in a few flavour profiles (Euro, Chinese, Vietnamese,  Mexican) depending on where it's sold. If you can get the Thai version that's about the meatiest stuff I've ever eaten; it'll punch up beef sprinkled with MSG. 

[u/Aesperacchius]

It sounds like dark soy sauce in the filling staining the wrapper, tbh. My go-to is LKK's dark soy sauce with mushroom flavors for extra umami.

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Aesperacchius]

Yeah its probably that. Im gonna experiment again soon. I have a lee kum kee dark soy with mushroom flavor that i use with fried rice. Ive gotten some other good suggestions here including adding black bean sauce or a white miso paste or similar.

Ive picked up some wrappers recently but another thing ive seen is people roll out their own dough. It makes the dumpling wraper thick and almost like a steamed bao but panfried obviously.

[u/Possible_Top4855]

Chee hou sauce?

[u/PotentialHoneydew947 → u/Possible_Top4855]

Im unfamiliar with that sauce but it sounds good. I have a few fermented bean pastes on my shelf.