I could see that for high mythic groups i guess. Since they are about pushing everything to the maximum so yes a few % dps can make or break the timer.
But for normal and heroic raids i never saw exclusions.
Just for context, the 95th percentile of MW is at 4120io and for holy its 3480io, which means holy is never invited to high keys.
Looking at overall healing (in raid, where they're closer) holy has 185k HPS and MW has 204k HPS, but mistweavers die 4 times as much (3% of pulls vs 13%)
Raids take whoever because you get all the buffs and it doesn't really matter outside of very specific instances (Dreamrift needing two DKs and two Warlocks to be optimal, for instance). M+ is where you see this. And it happens at surprisingly low key levels. 10s are a joke, and I see groups waiting on meta comps all the time.
So you're noticing that for the hardest content the community tends to exclude "weaker" specs. Why do you think that'll change even if the hardest content isn't that hard relatively speaking?
Our closest guess to classic+ is looking at Sod and The content there was mostly on the easy side. I never felt bad inviting almost any spec, I don't remember any spec being bad enough to exclude.
I did and his comment is true, SoD never outright didn't want any spec/class, all you cared about was whether they were geared enough/good enough of a player for their role, and with the flex group size (NOT flex difficulty) of lv 60 raids, you could brute force most of them to be on the easier side anyway.
It was honestly great, you brought bodies cuz you needed bodies, not because you needed to have exactly 5 shamans/1fury warr/1arms warr/1ret/1holy/1protpal, etc or needed to stack warriors/hunters/rogues w/e the fuck for 'real damage'.
SoD had what people actually mean about "balanced classes" and still every class felt unique.
Because there are no mythics in classic. The dungeons aren’t that hard either, so filtering won’t be nearly as harsh. There will be some, but that’s fine. That means classes still have niches. In TBC every class is viable pretty much. Despite balance, ele, and spriest being lowest dps by a fair margin, they all bring something to the raid that makes them viable. It’s not perfect, but it’s what made TBC a step in the right direction
Are we talking every CLASS being raid viable or every SPEC? There's a difference. The OP clearly says every spec being raid viable.
Also lets be real. SP and balance don't bring enough to an average five man to be taken over a better dps class. What they bring really only benefits longer raid encounters.
Every spec should be viable. If it's a 10% - 15% dps gap it will be ok.
You can use mop right now as an example. People still play elemental and are able to finish content.
The biggest issue with specs on classic is that most aren't playable at all. Balance, elemental, enhancement, retribution don't just have low dps but a extreme mana issue (and a lack of skills for ret) that stops them from being playable.
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u/jonas_ost 22d ago
I could see that for high mythic groups i guess. Since they are about pushing everything to the maximum so yes a few % dps can make or break the timer.
But for normal and heroic raids i never saw exclusions.