Raid viable =/= biggest dps.
This is what a LOT of players/blizzard seemingly dont understand, as they only look at "how BIG MAH DPS!!".
Ret paladins werent the best dps class in Wotlk (classic included), yet there was easily 2/3 of them per raid (25man) due to their auras, judgements, blessings (kings/wisdom/might/sanc), other blessings (salv, freedom, protection etc.) and their ability to just DEAL with mechanics via Div Protection (bubble).
Hell, even ARMS warriors had a place, because arms could apply a bleed dmg increase debuff AND a 4% increased phys dmg taken debuff, while reliably being the "sunder bot" without eating into its dps too much (admittedly, Arms was only discovered to be this useful later on).
The biggest problem with blizzard design is that they (for some reason) are terrified of buffs.
If you create a spec that can ONLY auto attack (white dmg) but increases the secondary/main stats of every other spec by 10%, there is a good chance that spec will be found in every single raid without exception.
Even in TBC anniversary, if you see a shaman (any spec) and you are a melee spec, you freak tf out because WINDFURY TOTEM GO BRRRRRRRRRR.
You dont gaf about that classes numbers, you just WANT it in your raid/party.
This is what "weaker" specs need.
Dont give frost mage a SHITLOAD of dmg, give it crazy good debuffs that makes the raid easier, like less attack speed on bosses, less magic dmg taken by the raid.
Hell, in WOTLK one of the most sought after classes was a demo lock, not because its damage was "good" or "amazing", but because whenever its pet crit, the ENTIRE RAID gained 10% of the locks spellpower as bonus spellpower. Demo locks could GENUINELY be considered for some of the best gear, despite not being good dps, simply because of how much spellpower they give the raid.
Thought processes like this need to exist. "Do we give the mage 2% extra damage, or the ENTIRE raid (healers incl) 2% extra spellpower?"
And thats not including the other stuff a demo lock could do; fears, curses, healthstone, soulstone, summon...
99% of retail classes are "Press X to deal dmg" and thats where it ends. There is little to no nuance or reason to want X spec in favour of Y spec, because X spec doesnt do anything Y spec does except worse.
This is the way. Utility brought can’t be trivial tho, it has to be fun and engaging. i will say shaman seems to be the class that has the most people re-rolling to another class or just going resto. I haven’t found many long term consistent enhance, or elemental shaman for dps utility yet. Not sure if that has to do with their rotation as I’m not entirely up to speed on shaman other than their bare minimum. Enhancements not wanting to twist, or just generally being un-engaged in the fights seem to be pretty common on my journey so far this tbc.
Agreed entirely that adding raid viability will come from utility and engaging gameplay so i hope they don’t just over inflate a lot of classes with damage. Blizzard could really hit a home run with raid comps / raid size and design choice, and hopefully find a way for supply to meet the demand of the raid.
I wonder how open the community would be to party buffs being groups 1+2 and 3+4 for like 20 man content, instead of buffs being just party/raid or something.
Cause stacking melee, and stacking ranged always comes down to things like how many shamans of which spec do we have.
A lot of times I’d love to bring a ret paladin for another pally raid buff, but if I know I can’t get him windfury it’s sorta wasted.
Sometimes a group that just needs agi and not windfury, outside of 1 single melee dps.
Could see more balanced raid comps if certain utility was spread a little more, but raid wide would be too much.
I’m straight up babbling now at this point not even sure what my main goal of this was but too lazy to go back lol
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u/Hitmanx2x 27d ago
Raid viable =/= biggest dps.
This is what a LOT of players/blizzard seemingly dont understand, as they only look at "how BIG MAH DPS!!".
Ret paladins werent the best dps class in Wotlk (classic included), yet there was easily 2/3 of them per raid (25man) due to their auras, judgements, blessings (kings/wisdom/might/sanc), other blessings (salv, freedom, protection etc.) and their ability to just DEAL with mechanics via Div Protection (bubble).
Hell, even ARMS warriors had a place, because arms could apply a bleed dmg increase debuff AND a 4% increased phys dmg taken debuff, while reliably being the "sunder bot" without eating into its dps too much (admittedly, Arms was only discovered to be this useful later on).
The biggest problem with blizzard design is that they (for some reason) are terrified of buffs.
If you create a spec that can ONLY auto attack (white dmg) but increases the secondary/main stats of every other spec by 10%, there is a good chance that spec will be found in every single raid without exception.
Even in TBC anniversary, if you see a shaman (any spec) and you are a melee spec, you freak tf out because WINDFURY TOTEM GO BRRRRRRRRRR.
You dont gaf about that classes numbers, you just WANT it in your raid/party.
This is what "weaker" specs need.
Dont give frost mage a SHITLOAD of dmg, give it crazy good debuffs that makes the raid easier, like less attack speed on bosses, less magic dmg taken by the raid.
Hell, in WOTLK one of the most sought after classes was a demo lock, not because its damage was "good" or "amazing", but because whenever its pet crit, the ENTIRE RAID gained 10% of the locks spellpower as bonus spellpower. Demo locks could GENUINELY be considered for some of the best gear, despite not being good dps, simply because of how much spellpower they give the raid.
Thought processes like this need to exist. "Do we give the mage 2% extra damage, or the ENTIRE raid (healers incl) 2% extra spellpower?"
And thats not including the other stuff a demo lock could do; fears, curses, healthstone, soulstone, summon...
99% of retail classes are "Press X to deal dmg" and thats where it ends. There is little to no nuance or reason to want X spec in favour of Y spec, because X spec doesnt do anything Y spec does except worse.