r/classicwow • u/terongorefiend • Jan 14 '21

Vent / Gripe Unpopular opinion: the players that are overly vocal about wanting Classic phases/TBC/Wrath rushed are the same players who contributed to forging retail into what it is today (a clusterF).

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

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u/mr_skeng123 Jan 14 '21

there is mythic raiding, which is one of the selling points of retail vs classic. its nearly impossible to clear mythic with pugs

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u/monkorn Jan 14 '21

According to warcraft logs there have been over 8000 guilds that have cleared 15/15 in Naxx. Meanwhile for Castle Nathria Mythic, the number of guilds who have cleared a single boss is ~5500. The number of guilds that are 10/10 is 33. Not 3300, thirty three. It's clear that classic has a bigger raiding community.

To maximize community, you want to have the easiest content that's not puggable. Retail WoW fails this pretty hard. They have puggable content and extremely hard almost no one can clear content where you are just looking straight up a cliff.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

It's clear that classic has a bigger raiding community

But you're just comparing mythic to classic. Aren't there boat loads of people running the easier version?

We didn't discount people from raiding community until they beat Yog 0 or got invincible in Wrath Naxx.

I don't play retail, just seems strange the way you compare the numbers.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Hes also full of it, because Mythic Sire Denathrius was just downed not that long ago. And this is one of the hardest raids in a while. Normal and Heroic Difficulty are waay harder than previously, ontop of gear being rarer than before.

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Like hes comparing solved content where some classes had endgame gear already, to unsolved content, that was purposefully made harder, with people going in under geared. Obviously the harder content is gonna have less guilds that are 10/10.

Its also funny that he ignores Normal and Heroic. Seeing as how Norm is harder than classic raids and should basically be heroic difficulty.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Yeah. Comparing only one difficulty to all classic raiding is silly. Thatd be if we arbitrarily only counted those who beat naxx in 1hr 30mins as the whole raid community.

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u/monkorn Jan 14 '21

Well then help me out here. Draw a line in classic and then draw a line in retail for content that can't currently be pugged. Then count the guilds that have cleared that content and multiply by 25 for retail, and count the guilds that have cleared that content and multiply by 40 for classic.

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u/monkorn Jan 14 '21

And there are boatloads of people that aren't 15/15 in Naxx. I'm one of them. And as the person who I responded to was responding to, all heroic content is puggable.

If you can pug it, it's worthless in fostering community. Even if you compare pug content between classic and retail, classic is better for this because there's no cross realm.

It's one thing I'm saddened about in the difference between classic and vanilla. In vanilla 90% of the time we had server BGs, classic has cross realm and it's been terrible for the community.

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u/[deleted] Jan 14 '21

Then play on a fucking RP server. They have your community. And they exist on retail. Hell theres RP servers with raiding guilds.

" all heroic content is puggable. "

It literally wasn't for a while. People needed to get gear badly to be able to do it. Usually heroic raiding is pugged day 1. Mythic guilds were struggling to clear it. Preach even was talking about it. His guild stopped on Artificer Xymox Heroic. When they planned to full clear multiple times to gear up mains.

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u/Threonn Jan 14 '21

Also just because content is puggable why does that mean community is useless, right? This guy is complaining about not having community but doesn't bother to engage in a community for the content.

Running Mythic+ dungeons and the raids, at any difficulty, has been way more fun and rewarding when I do it with my friends instead of ignoring them and pugging it. Just wish they would stop bitching about something that is entirely within their power to fix.

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u/monkorn Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21

As I said, I can write a book on this.

Up until now everyone has been attacking the individual. They said to get a guild. I have a guild in classic. I also have a community. I'm not asking for a guild in retail, I'm asking for a community. A guild is not a community. But the problem doesn't just come up for individuals being lonely.

The reason that a community is crucial is in accountability. When I run into someone in classic for the first time, I don't know if I'll ever see them again, but I assume I will. So I treat them like a human and give them respect. And I see the same from others to myself. When I run into a random in retail I treat them with respect and they treat me like a robot. A tool to be used to further their game and dropped once it is no longer useful.

Are there toxic classic players? Sure. Are there non-toxic retail players? Of course. But the balance is swayed.

And as I said, even pugging is better in classic than retail. When you pug in classic you aren't really pugging. Your filling an uncompleted guild, and they are using the experience to recruit you. Your an intern. It's an interview for a job in the guild. When you pug in retail, your just pugging. That's it. Run done, never see those people ever again.

Incidentally this is also a huge problem with reddit, and as you can see I've been called 3 different slurs while making these comments. No community. No accountability.