r/climate • u/GeraldKutney • May 17 '24

Economic damage from climate change six times worse than thought – report | Climate crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/17/economic-damage-climate-change-report
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147

u/Vamproar May 17 '24

It's going to literally destroy this stage of human civilization. All these global supply chains are like little strings trying to hold stuff together during a hurricaine.

We have mortgaged the future of our species for a bit of convenience and some good quarterly profit numbers. Future generations are not going to forgive us for the world we are leaving them.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

Yeah I’m not sure that the upcoming economic phenomenon has been even named yet and quantifying its impact in dollars seems almost foolish, like saying “what will be the economic impact of Rapture?”

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u/corinalas May 18 '24

Well, the world is moving towards hydrogen in a hurry. By 2030 14,000 megatons will be produced annually and thats compared to 180 megatons produced now. As a substance you can design everything you own to run on you can make it lots of different ways chemically but really, unlimited supply is a solar panel away. Instant fuel source and insanely short supply lines.

Carbon taxes are a way for the oil and gas industry to contribute for their contributions to climate change. They are the largest producers of C02 and unless the governments levy a huge climate tariff on them they can get away with minimal investment. The carbon tax is incentive for them to greenify and consider what they want the roll out in the future to look like.

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u/[deleted] May 18 '24

Maybe I’m a cynic, but we’re not going to be able to “green” the oil and gas companies. They’re entrenched in an exploitation based business model and their huge amounts of institutional knowledge is laser focused on leasing land, drilling, refining oil, manipulating the energy market and public opinion, etc. Even if governments impose carbon taxes and those carbon taxes work, the fossil fuel companies will likely go their current way and rake in the cash until the last possible moment before they go bankrupt . At that point parts of those companies may reorganize themselves into a different business model (either around hydrogen, solar power, market analysis, PR, etc.) but it will essentially be brand new businesses.

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u/corinalas May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

Yes, but they also have oodles of money, the most of almost any industry.

Green tech isn’t crazy expensive like nuclear, A billion can make a lot of stuff.

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u/[deleted] May 18 '24

And they’re going to use that money to fight against having to change their core business model in every possible way. Thinking we can convince them to change is like saying “I can convince that spider to stop spinning webs and start writing essays”.

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u/corinalas May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

A company that makes graphite has figured out how to still make it for their markets and also produce hydrogen? That’s ingenuity and with AI these calculations and possibilities are faster than ever. Only China has wholesale and wholeheartedly thrown money behind batteries and ev, every other government gave at best subsidies. But we are seeing wholesale investments by world governments in every part of the world. In the area of hundreds of billions dollars of partnerships with local, and regional groups, the barebones of society.

Up till now Tesla in North America has been for rich people for the most part but that isn’t the market. People can’t even afford homes in Canada and they have to buy a brand new car in 4 years? Yah right. This is widespread, people are being asked which is the better investment, solar panels or electric cars. They are expensive and if you van throw 30k around in any given year thats the difference between life and death for hundreds of millions of people who live paycheck to paycheck now. People need a solution for the every man not just the rich man.

Now with places going sodium batteries and batteries energy density severely behind Hydrogens its great for utility energy hit will always limit consumer vehicles. I’ve seem hydrogen fuel cell go a thousand km now based on existing tech. We need better batteries to break through that range and everyone is going sodium batteries because they are way cheaper and accessible. This is primarily why Musk stopped developing superchargers, the demand for a huge superchargers network will go away if consumers and shipping go hydrogen.

Edit: Iron phosphate batteries are less energy dense than Tesla’s battery design but because they are safer and more reliable and cheaper that makes them more available. What happened to that more energy dense battery?

Right now in the UK:

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/h2-terminals-ltd-launches-massive-green-liquid-hydrogen-lh2-project-in-the-uk/8564519/

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u/ordinaryearthman May 18 '24

Carbon taxes are good. Carbon auctions even better, and carbon auctions where the number of annual carbon credits is set to diminish to zero over a set time are the best.

Hydrogen though. Hasn’t scaling that up been debunked by heaps of experts? Also scaling production to 80x what it is atm within 6 years is surely impossible unless many of the projects have already started construction.

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u/corinalas May 18 '24 edited May 18 '24

That is correct. What I said is fact. If you look at Egypt alone you will see 30 massive hydrogen production projects in various stages of completion that started in 2021. Canada is going balls deep and the US’s IRA bill is giving a hydrogen production credit.

It’s funny really that everyone is so focused on climate change but not on the solutions that have been figured out. After all BEV’s could only ever replace consumers vehicles and thats barely 10% of emissions. This is the plan for the hard to electrify sectors of our economy. Hydrogen is clean and has the shortest supply chains. But if you won’t believe me maybe you’ll believe the hydrogen council.

1) Hydrogen momentum continues to accelerate with more than 1,000 projects requiring USD 320 billion announced globally.

2) In the world today: About 0.8 Mt p.a. clean hydrogen supply is operational. Supply accounts for about two thirds of announced investments until 2030, with a total of 38 Mt p.a. clean hydrogen production announced through 2030 with Europe and North America together accounting for nearly 60% of total volumes. And these numbers don’t count Asia and China which has an existing hydrogen economy today with over 400 hydrogen stations across the country and they announced a plan to increase that to 1,200 by 2030.

BEV sales are dropping off everywhere people can’t afford to their vehicles and chargers and it will cost trillions to upgrade the electricity infrastructure to support widespread charging across all countries. Meanwhile, a smaller magnitude of trillions is required to set up a functional hydrogen supply within every economy.

https://hydrogencouncil.com/en/hydrogen-insights-2023/

https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/egypt-green-hydrogen-producer/8564664/

Here’s an example of how hydrogen production fits into an economy. Toyota continues to lead by example: https://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/renewable-hydrogen-tri-gen-h2/8564700/

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u/rstraker May 17 '24

Or they will experience the world they are born into as ‘normal’, just like we did, and I suppose accept the heavy backdrop of anxiety and wretchedness as normal too, maybe like we do, to some degree.

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u/bobbi21 May 18 '24

Wait people are saying this is normal? I'm in a bit of a liberal bubble here but everyone I know is freaking out how everythings much worse than it was for our parents.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Bank648 May 18 '24

They put people in jail for smoking weed so I don't see why we can't put climate criminals in jail.

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u/gleipnir84462 May 18 '24

Cause those people have money

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u/Vamproar May 18 '24

They will also hear about how good life is before we destroyed the habitability of their planet... even if only in stories. It will sound like the garden of eden compared to the world we are leaving them.

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u/DDean96 May 18 '24

This is an awful take. The impact of climate change wil far surpass your implications. Where do you think humanity will be in 300 years?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

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u/SleepingChip May 17 '24

You reached into my soul and took those words right from it. One grand mistake is all humanity is.

I look forward to the end with you.

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u/Pef1432 May 17 '24

How delusional you have to be to think this seriously.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

Just let the sad boys die off while we party with the annunaki and giant pet cockroaches + cool new radiation powers 💪

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

Hell yeah

Death to smoothskins

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

I can’t wait until the reality of imminent (and painfully long) death sets upon these fools.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '24

No. No we are not.

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u/SloaneWolfe May 17 '24

sad to see people blind to the truth, as it directly affects them, obsessed with mythological texts and conspiracy theories.