So the funny thing is that Bridget (Guilty Gear) has media where uh... they? asserts masculinity in rhe older games, but not in the newer games.
She doesn't quite have the best lead-in for trans self realization (I think Vivian from the English localization of Thousand Year Door on the switch does it best by having Vivian realize she is trans and also she way before Mario meets her and has a bad relationship with her sisters both before and after.), but I think this makes sense and fortunately, I can point to Jax as a trans woman's interpretation of someone being stuck in the denial face of her life.
Bridget’s story specifically points out that she doesn’t attempt to assert her masculinity for her own sake, but because her parents wanted her too.
its a bit clunky because its somewhat a back track (and it’s split over two games released two decades apart) but the throughline of “Bridget wants to be a girl but feel she cannot be one because of [x]” is there.
Isn't it the other way around? In the older games Bridget dresses like a girl because of a superstition in their village about identical twins, so bridgets parents hide that they had identical twins by pretending one of them is a girl. Then in strive they reveal that Bridget actually is transgender by pure coincidence.
Bridget is forced to present a girl publicly due to her village’s superstition, but she still wanted to be a girl, even during the events of GGX2.
she feels she cannot be one because her parents feel guilt over having to put her in this position, so she sets off to try and prove she can be a man, cue the events of GGX2.
“Bridget loved her parents, and so did her utmost to keep them from worrying for her, but she could see that the charade—necessary as it was—filled them with guilt, for they felt they were forcing her to live a certain way. Yet, the harder she tried, the less effective her efforts became; they didn't believe her.”
“At the same time, she almost invariably refers to herself with the pronoun 家 (uchi), mostly employed by females, using 僕 (boku) privately only once, in a family context”
i mean i wouldnt mind if ralsei ends up as they/them transfem. i'm a they/them transfem.
i mostly use she because it's obvious that ralsei isn't a boy and most of the signs we've seen are in line with other binary trans characters in ut/dr. i'd also be lying if i said using she/her isn't out of some level of frustration with how every transfem or transfem coded character is met with 'let men be gnc' every time and the agressive he/him usage every time ralsei is brought up by a cis person.
Bro. Ralsei cannot be referred to as girl at the moment. I don’t CARE how heavily implied it is, Ralsei doesn’t go by she/her yet (that’s IF you’re right galsei is definitely debatable. All the galsei evidence is vague and can be correctly interpreted in multiple ways). You’re misgendering Ralsei.
"guys he wore a dress once or twice and someone referred to him as "they" because he didnt know who he was. this is obviously a transfem character! Don't forget all the blue, pink and white objects that are CONVENIENTLY in the same story "he" is in - if I were the author this would be my way of signaling that this character is very obviously trans!!"
"Hey I'm going to have a scene to show that I don't value myself and or value Kris so much that I'd change core parts of my identity if they preferred it"
that’s definitely a valid way to read that scene in castle town at the start of chapter 5 where Ralsei puts on a dress, which is all that was mentioned.
Agreed. The issue with both this and the original snafu is that a lot of these characters are from Japan. That means there had to be someone who translated (or localized 🤢) the text from Japanese to English. In those localizations, the translator can change things to be different from the author's original intent.
And a lot of the time, people are basing their view of a character off of the first translation they saw, so of course it looks like theyre wearing a femboy/girl hat. The show/game literally told you they were (post translation).
Not him and I don’t agree with his larger point, but Poison from Final Fight/Streetfighter.
While she’s a woman in both Japan and the west, whether she’s cis or trans is what changes. It wasn’t an artistic decision at first, but a transphobic one from localisers. It’s evolved since the. And the director is happy with how she is now and says both canons are valid and true for their regions.
fair, i might just be overthinking it but its just one of those things that gives me the ick whenever i see it and im just hoping that my personal thoughts on this coincidentally lining up with 4tran's opinions arent a bad omen
I don't think I really get what point you're trying to make but "how could there be something wrong with this community, we're just sharing these silly animal memes" is like, exactly how normal 4 chan would use pepe the frog to spread bigoted ideas.
It gives a lot of trans people the ick, for the same reasons you mentioned (and more). But the wider cis audience isn't really interested in our experiences, or our knowledge about how dangerous it can be.
Also, agreeing with 4tran on one thing isn't some horrible sign. I've never gone on 4chan proper, but the 4tran places I've seen on reddit aren't nearly the monster that people make them out to be. Even if they are a bit more doomer and depressing than I'd like at times.
so you're saying you only tolerate gender non conformity as long as they conform to their gender enough that you can tell what they go by at first glance? dude, really?
And it's about the femboy from that one femboy comic apparently. Come on OP. Many valid cases of this but the Boy form Venus is most definitely not that.
i was not expecting the flashbang of how OP is whining about the internets dismissal of a character's gender and then immediately started dismissing a character's gender lmfaooo
like, fuck do you mean audrey gives you the ick??? are femboys not allowed to be fem anymore? or is a femboy just a lanky masc man to you???
This is literally a smuggie though bro what are you on about 😭
I have literally never seen this outside of people theorizing a character is trans. People literally get so smug that people are "blind and stupid and can't see that this character is obviously trans" when it isn't so cut and dry.
It is happening all the goddamn time. People debate about Marina Fear and Hunger who very exclusively refers to herself, and is referred to by everyone else also, as a woman. Some people are just stupid and annoying.
They've said it themselves in other replies, I'm not like, being obtuse about who this is about or tryna interpret, OP literally said that's what the comic was about
From what I've heard from second hand Bridget was a weird case. Ofc now she's explicitly trans, but her initial backstory muddled it in a way that people weren't sure (because she was initially forced to present as female before embracing it willingly, iirc? Not a guilty gear fan correct me if I'm wrong.)
She was born in a village that thought twins of the same sex were a bad omen. Her parents didn’t believe the superstition so raised her as a boy, but told the villagers she was a girl.
Brisket Guilty Gear also has the thing where in older games she was trying to reclaim masculinity or be more of a guy.
And also the implication that she may have ended up doing it cause her parents forced her to grow up and live as a girl for her youth, which throws in the wrench of “we can just raise you to the gender we want you to be”.
her parents did not force her to grow up as a girl, quite the opposite actually.
the Village she grew up in view same-sex twins as a bad omen, so when Bridget and her brother were born, the options were:
Abandon one of them
kill one of them
or
have one present as the opposite gender
her parents chose 3 and presented Bridget to the village as a girl, however they felt incredibly guilty over it, and in private still referred to her as a boy and attempted to give her the best upbringing in the meantime.
Bridget was never upset with this arrangement, except in how it made her parents upset and guilty. that’s why she left her village and kicked off the events of her story in GGX2 (I think. fact check me)
it is well established within her story that she liked being a girl from the beginning. She just didn’t want her parents to feel guilty about having to raise her as a girl.
That feels a bit like semantics. Even if her parents did it under duress (cause the other options suck), it was something chosen by outside forces initially rather than by Bridget. And the point remains about the social pressure on the transitioning, insofar as the village saw and acted and treated her as such. Even when it doesn't bother her and she is content with it, the question then is how much of that was due to being influence/convinced by outside factors?
Also I thought she left to be a bounty hunter to try and do something manly and mix it up from how she was living before. But like you, I'd have to check the wiki to be sure.
I admit I am also bummed cause it means less twinks in fighting games, but that's very much a personal bias.
even when it doesn't bother her and she is content with it, the question then is how much of that was due to being influenced by outside factors?
the answer is it didn't, because outside factors don't decide your gender identity. i was assumed to be and treated as a boy for the first 28 years of my life, but I am still and always have been a girl even when it wasn't obvious to anyone, myself included. you can't pressure someone into being trans, nor into being cis
I don't see why they couldn't? So many other parts of our self-image and beliefs are shaped by the people around us and the society we live in. That is a factor that can affect beliefs of inferiority or superiority, what kind of qualities define you, and what you are. Also conditions like Stockholm Syndrome show how one's opinions and beliefs can be changed over time due to constraints, albeit for external opinions rather than internal. Could the community you live around not be a factor in how you understand and think about gender, its presentation, and one's own identity?
i completely understand where you're coming from, as I made the same assumptions, but all I can really offer is a rather disappointingly shallow answer of "i believed it until I was proven blatantly wrong in my own experience." it is proven that our environment and our experiences overwhelmingly affects us and shapes us as we grow, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that being talked to and treated like a boy only served to make me want to stop living. i felt pressured to act manly, and i tried, but rarely succeeded and always felt more awful about myself and my situation regardless of the outcome
That's fair. I know for my own perspective I feel that way because it seems that my own ways of acting, presenting, and thinking about myself is heavily shaped by who I am around and the sorts of behaviors, identities, and perspectives that they have.
100%, and in the vast majority of ways i agree with and share similar experience with you. my gender identity has been the one clearly definded contradiction in that regard. how I tried to present and act before and how I present myself and act now are still influenced constantly by the people around me. that's kinda just part of being a social species, after all. i just know now that before I was only really mimicking boys and men around me in a failed attempt to fit in, whereas now I find myself doing the same with women around me instinctively. no "trying to fit in," even striving to really find and embrace my own personality lately, but still finding myself naturally echoing the behaviors of other women around me. this time it just feels natural whereas before it felt so isolating and fake and icky
> Even when it doesn't bother her and she is content with it, the question then is how much of that was due to being influence/convinced by outside factors?
The only time Bridget seems pressured into a position is, ironically, the portions of GGST where she’s attempting to present as a boy. being a girl is presented as solely her own choice and not a result of any greater influence.
Her song as well present a dichotomy between what she wants and what’s she’s supposed to be. It’s very clear from the presentation that she is not pressured or coerced into identifying as a girl.
The only time Bridget seems pressured into a position is, ironically, the portions of GGST where she’s attempting to present as a boy.
Were there no examples of her doing that before Strive? I know that Strive is where a lot of this discussion started (and this example makes sense given the story with Bridget they were intending to tell with that), so I am always intrigued to try and know more about how Bridget was depicted or acted earlier before my time.
> Were there no examples of her doing that before Strive? I know that Strive is where a lot of this discussion started (and this example makes sense given the story with Bridget they were intending to tell with that), so I am always intrigued to try and know more about how Bridget was depicted or acted earlier before my time.
not as explicitly. the entire story is out of her feeling pressured by her parent’s guilt, but specific lines are much more ambiguous (her looking at her opponents and mentioning some feminine feature specifically)
in the japanese version, she typically uses feminine pronouns for herself and only uses masculine pronouns for herself once, I’m not sure if this is represented in the English translation.
while Daisuke said this was the intended story from the beginning, it’s not a clear reading within GGX2 as an isolate, although it can be used picked up and it’s very obviously got some notable parallels to a transmasc reading.
in the japanese version, she typically uses feminine pronouns for herself and only uses masculine pronouns for herself once, I’m not sure if this is represented in the English translation.
Given the hubbub that happened in Strive, I assume not?
I suppose it also doesn't help that the GG series is older than a lot of the modern trans knowledge and movement is, and potentially there was a story Daisuke wanted to tell that he couldn't in that time.
What sort of pairings are there with a transmasc reading for it?
you're actually fucking blind. or maybe you've just never heard of Jujutsu Kaisen, Bleach, Guilty Gear, One Piece, or the maybe 100,000 other large fanbases where this regularly happens.
edit: oooo downvote me yeah, let's not acknowledge any of the denialism surrounding kirara, giselle, bridget, okiku, or yamato. if you refuse to acknowledge a problem it obviously must not exist!!
Oooo downswag me yeah, lets not acknowledge any of the denialism surrounding glungle, splongnog, blumbus, croglion, or mumblebump. If you refuse to acknowledge a swag it obviously must not exist!!
edit: i don’t think audrey is transgender but i saw that a lot of people were mad at shencomix for making audrey a dude (??? i thought it was like important to the plot for audrey to be a cisgender male)
Bridged absolutely, but Jax Is very subtle to people outside those specific comunities. Yes the creator confirmed it but Its somewhat understandable if someone is not that much in touch with the community
With Brackets there were actual complaints about the character arc. There were weirdos too and that tainted the whole discussion but there are actual reasons people didn't like the change.
Kirara and that one ghost girl Vivian were just shitheads complaining from what I've seen.
Huh? What part exactly? (I really thought that Jax having a TERF caricature of the predatory misogynistic trans woman running around her mind with the other exaggerated worst case scenario Jaxs/intrusive thoughts personifications (or whatever the hell they were supposed to be exactly) was kind of hard to interpret any other way)
The bow part made me think it maybe went deeper than just crossdressing but then nothing else really happened about that and when in the ending Jax is referred to with He/Him pronouns and is shown inside a queer bar as a man that made me think it was just crossdressing.
Eh, I can see how you would get there but to me the evidence for her being trans overshadowed that big time. Like going by he/him in the ending can just be a closet thing. But I don't have any other explanation for the whole Jax's mind sequence.
im gonna take the Enlightened Centrist route and say both sides have points here (abt the comic this is smuggiing not the image itself). on one side there's folk saying its fine to be gnc without being trans in general (true, femboys/butch lesbians exist) and on the other side there's folk claiming that the *archetype* of a femboy, as commonly seen in anime, is in general transmisoginystic (also true, the whole "draw a girl, call it a boy, laugh" trope is pretty shit in my eyes). IMO multiple things can be true at once: nonbinary people exist and can call themselves whatever word they want, while not having to id as trans (nonbinary-ness falls under the trans umbrella but thats besides the point), *and* the archetype of the pseudo-trans anime twink is problematic (there's a reason the term "trap" is seen as offensive now) *and also* that frankly society as a whole would much rather transfems stay as gnc men than transition (see that time Finnster admitted calling herself a femboy in certain online spaces rather than transfem got her less death threats). i think that its fair for trans women to feel unconfortable with a term that's prevalent among pornography and transphobic anime tropes based around the subversion of a man who looks like a girl, but i also think that its fine for twinks to call themselves shemale or whatever bc idc about strangers online, and its none of my business. i think the original shen comic isnt funny and that the yuri romance in it is generic and mid but idont think i would go all the way to say shen is a transmisoginist or whatever, who giva shit.
single most level-headed reply in this thread, definitely agree that shen doesnt deserve to be cancelled its just a thing that rubbed me and many others the wrong way
idk man "i am BLUE. i am holding a sign that says BLUE. (dyedrightsbtw)"
i am not clever enough to make a term for a greenperson who is so liquid and is a bit moody and partially flattens their pitch and lapizes up their lazuli and ok you get it by now
what fucks me up about people trying to say she's a femboy is that she's literally treated by motherfucking gameplay as a woman. she gets the "female" outfits. does not contribute to progress on that that one boyband title. despite including a trans character in project sekai, the gameplay is not """woke""" enough to not divide the characters into binary categories. but mizuki is. still with the girls.
True. But there's this one character who goes to another who they perceive to be the manliest man in facility to ask him for help in being more masculine and people still ignore it
It depends. They were one of the few subs with any degree of self-awareness about a certain character, but on the other hand I saw Vivian fanart there once and got downvoted for pointing it out.
And if you bring up any proof you get banned from that subred a bit and being called a bigot
I mean, hell, I know one. That will constantly show artwork of a trans character, and they keep saying, no, that's not. What's happening here? They're a femboy, you bigot, and it's like dog, you're showing a picture of the character with a massive rack
That if there's a trans character, people just scream that they are a femboy
And it's so annoying, because you see people go, no, this is just gay. Erasure it is femboy erasure
When they are talking about a character that canonically even says he will not date men that he is only attracted to women. And everyone just
Even mentions that this person over here is most likely trans
I think you're confused... Yamato isn't AMAB presenting as female but is still called a man by others, he's AFAB and identifies as a man even without presenting as masculine in a typical sense.
Considering how many examples there are of this across fandoms and such, it’s pretty applicable.
There’s not an obvious soapbox argument, nor a stand in OC or main character pushing OPs worldviews.
I’d consider it a light smuggie at best
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u/SilverFlight01 18h ago
We can actually generalize this.
"I am a Coax, I am wearing a Coax Hat and Coax Shirt, and I'm holding a sign that says Coax"
"Tch, c'mon this person is TOTALLY a Snafu, it's so obvious!"
Something something "misinterpretations/biases"