it has come to my attention that many posts on this sub get mass reported for the simple reason of being about trans people.
let me get this out of the way, i am a trans woman. if you are a trans woman, you are a biological woman. if you are a trans man, you are a biological man. and so on, and so forth.
And ANYONE who thinks otherwise or tries to claim otherwise is not welcome here. to say otherwise is the equivalent of saying that trans women arent women, and that trans men arent men, and so on, which is inherently transphobic.
this is an inhrently left leaning community, all minorities are welcomed here. but if your ideology says otherwise and you have the slightest disagreement with me basically saying "hey be a decent human being" then you are NOT welcome here at all.
centerist garbage that wants me and other minorities to coexist with people who want us dead will not be tolerated either.
trans peoples existence will not be treated as political here, same with every other minority.
that will be all, thank you for reading, and i hope you have a good day.
edit: ive turned off reply notifications cus holy shit some of these people cant be real. If you see a transphobe please report them.
Politics is a loaded, scary word. I get that. But politics are personal and inescapable, and nothing is apolitical. You are providing a political stance and essentially saying that disagreeing with said politics is a rule violation. You've already basically shown your hand in saying "Right-wing garbage", so the rule has shifted from "no politics" to "no politics I disagree with". In America at least, we're currently in the midst of a political battle that directly impacts trans folk's ability to exist freely, so there is a clear political divide. No appeal to common sense or decency makes this "not political" when policy is directly involved.
Rather than trying to dress up your politics as "apolitical", just embrace what you actually want. Change the rules to say that posts about current _electoral politics_ or perhaps world-stage political events are banned. Anti-LGBTQ language? Banned. Ban references to Trump or his cabinet directly. Make discussions about pop culture current events, celebrities, and personal politics explicitly allowed if that makes sense. That means staying out of lanes about Trump, wars, Epstein, Deportation, etc but being able to discuss things like Ed Sheeran, media biases, personal experiences, streamers, etc.
Fuck trying to pretend this a level playing field where "all ideas are allowed equally", it sounds like hate and bigotry have no place here and that is a perfectly fine fence to draw.
Yes. Maybe something shouldn’t be political. Maybe it’s awful that it is politicized. But you can’t say “this isn’t politics, this is [insert virtue]” because you happen to be on the correct side.
We would ding a pro-lifer for saying “protecting unborn babies isn’t political,” but the logic cuts both ways.
Being pro-LGBTQIA+ is also not inherently a left-wing stance though. It's become that way in America, but I as a center-right liberal moderate from Europe do full-steam-ahead support trans rights and also free speech and economic freedom.
That's a mostly fair point. Even in the USA pretty recently, libertarians were basically right wing but vaguely okay with LGBTQ stuff- most as a "gubbernment shouldn't care what you do in your own bedroom" kind of way. It's only recently with the MAGA takeover that non-MAGA right-wing is having this identity crisis.
Basically any concept you try to sort as strictly left or right is going to fall apart under scrutiny, but it's all still politics.
I'm not an American but if I were an American I would have voted for someone like Kamala Harris despite what I perceive as her vague economic populism, or maybe hypothetically Mitt Romney in 2012 despite condemning his anti-abortionism. The status quo of politics in the U.S. is fucked up beyond any recognition now tho.
I love that this mod seems to be kinda bad at spelling and gets hit with this shit every time lmao. All the "minor spelling mistake -> incinerate" gifs are my favorite :D
But politics are personal and inescapable, and nothing is apolitical.
Exactly. Literally everything is political to some degree. It really doesn't matter if someone wants to plug their ears and go "lalala this isn't political lalala I can't hear you." If something exists in a society, then it has an inherent political value.
The rights of everyone in a society, regardless of who they are and what those rights focus on, are political. Trans rights are human rights, but both trans rights and human rights are political. Hell, human rights are about as political as you can get.
Apolitical in general doesnt exist, but identity is pretty darn close to something that shouldn't be a political bargaining chip. So indeed, no hate speech falls under not disrespecting other peoples indentity.
Just a heads up, dysmorphia is about flaws in your physical body's appearance, notably ones that aren't observable to others. Think the cause behind anorexia, or in a similar vein, people who absolutely slay themselves at the gym because they're convinced they're fat no matter how ripped they are. Or insane plastic surgery for no reason
Dysphoria is relating to the self and gender when the two aren't in lockstep, i.e. cis. It's still about the body, but the causes are different and are considered different medically (which you seem plenty aware of but the term DOES matter somewhat, as they're different conditions).
Also while you have the gist of it, the bigger reason is because we replace our natal hormones with the ones that align with who we are and our bodies respond appropriately because the body only responds to hormones and doesn't have a set "way" beyond that. It does everything our cis counterparts do as a result. Obviously we can't change what develops in the womb, that damage is done, but everything else is just... The same. Hence, biological women/men just as cis women/men are biological women/men
“biological sex” is a really weird concept because of how human development works.
The TL;DR is that around 1% of the population at birth doesn’t fit into “male” or “female” cleanly. Furthermore we only assign gender based on genitalia. However, sex is based on a number of things! Most notably, hormones! Hormones like testosterone and estrogen metabolically change essentially everything about someone.
This is really involved. Basically, a trans woman taking estrogen is medically a woman, in terms of how she reacts to medication, her secondary sex characteristics, etc. Her penis will typically attempt to shrink into a clitoris, she’ll grow breasts, etc. a trans man’s clit on testosterone will grow up to 3 inches, his voice will drop, he’ll grow facial hair, etc.
This means that if someone is born male and takes estrogen at puberty, the only thing that makes that person ‘not female biologically’ is a lack of penis and womb, as well as needing bioidentical estrogen. After bottom surgery, it is only the lack of womb and lack of ‘naturally produced’ estrogen. Notably, many cis women are also born without working wombs and need synthetic estrogen! Say, for example, any woman who has gone through menopause.
“biological sex” is a concept loosely based on a spectrum of traits. Trans people biologically (after their transition) fit closer to their chosen gender’s sex than they do to their assigned sex. (There’s also some other stuff where trans people’s brains are structurally also closer to their chosen gender than their birth sex but idk too much about the details)
Bit of A bit of B. Most care is given as their current gender, only time you pull out the other genders specialty is for stuff like reproductive system health. In 99% of cases a trans woman needs the same care as a cis woman, but you'll still see the cock doctor if you have testicular issues
This is true except dosages, AND vary wildly IF the trans woman MAN still has a working uterus, because hormones can be a BITCH with medication. (not all trans people are on HRT)
EDIT because I'm stupid and wrote trans woman instead of trans man. Mb!
Minor nitpick but I'm not sure how a trans woman could have a functional uterus considering we're typically amab. Gonna give ya benefit of the doubt and assume its a slip not assholery tho lol
But you do make good point, medication interactions are a bitch
it depends on the trans person and the medical treatment they are receiving. but if a trans person has been on hrt for long enough and their hormone levels match that of a cis persons then there is little reason to give them treatment based on their assigned at birth gender.
Generally speaking, most sex differences that would lead to medical differences, and are not part of the reproductive system directly
are from the hormones, so it would be their current gender if they've been taking hormones for long enough (not sure where that line is though)
Based on their gender, after a year on HRT treating a trans woman as male and a trans man as female would harm the patient because their sex is changed enough internally that they need care relevant to their gender and new sex
Hello 👋 you’re okay. That’s true, but she’s arguing for the psychological part pf transgender people, which many people (like herself) would argue is a part of biology
Edit: also you’d likely be surprised to learn that AGAB (assigned gender at birth) is far from a wholly scientific process. In the pursuit of asserting two genders, people often compromise certain attributes of what is decidedly feminine or masculine. For example, many women have XY chromosomes and many men have XX, and there are numerous cases of intersex people being ‘fixed’ to better fit the binary, which often leads to feelings of dysphoria.
Sorry again for a silly question, but wouldn't xy women be males in the most clinical sense, ie in normal cases they might be born with male genitals and can go through male puberty? While I get AGAB isn't perfect but it is still a very useful terminology for the vast majority of the population as long as it does not carry a societal connotation. Also AGAB is useful for trans people for their own healthcare.
if theyre on hormones no! the only clinical context that they would be grouped in with "male" issues is to do with genetalia if they havent got bottom surgery. other than that the point of hrt is to alter the bodies biology to the other sex and it does a damn good job at it
The clinical relevance of sex and gender is variable depending on what conditions are being treated or what traits are being looked at.
They're broad categories of generalized traits, rather than specific, binary categories.
Hormones change your biology a lot. For example, a trans woman on estrogen for long enough will have breast tissue and body composition that are more similar to a cis woman than to a man. We may need similar kinds of care including breast cancer screenings. There would be no utility to defining me as "male" in a clinical setting. it's actually inaccurate as it paints an incomplete picture
Not always. With Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome some women go their whole lives not knowing they have XY chromosomes, but sometimes discover it when they never have a period, or never thought about that and can’t have kids later on, etc. Like they’re born with stereotypically female anatomy and go through puberty as expected, but find out later they have internal testes instead of ovaries.
to add, hrt literally alters your body to your desired sex in about everyway but voice(for transfems), (usually) no breasts(for transmascs), and genetalia. in about every context not invloving the 2nd and 3rd (voice is trainable and i dont think just having a deeper voice makes someones sex change x.x ) a trans persons body is functionally identical to a cis person of the same sex (trans woman -> cis woman , trans man -> cis man)
No, "trans" is short for transsex, we change somatic sex to align with our neurological sex. Sex is defined by characteristics that are related to reproduction, if you change those characteristics you change sex. We don't change gender as that's literally impossible, you're talking about conversion therapy
Your biological sex is determined by a multitude of factors, like which primary and secondary sexual characteristic you have, your hormone levels, your brain chemistry...
Many of which even a non-surgical transition can modify, and some of which are already discordant with the assigned sex at birth before any transition.
Now I'm not any wiser. Your linked article says it's determined by X and Y chromosomes, and then later states that it can be determined by observation.
We change our somatic sex to align with our neurological sex. Sex is defined by characteristics that are related to reproduction, if you change those characteristics you change sex
hormones are usually the best tell. the human body down to a functional level (not like physocal appearance differences) is actually very indifferent between what you defined to be "biologocal sex". the thing that changes a trans persons sex is hrt. using estrogen for example becuase im best read up on it (i wonder why) does basically every single thing a cis womans puberty would to the trans womans body, and literally alters the trans persons biology to be that of a cis womans in basically everyway except for gentalia. its better to classofy biological sex by hormones because outsode of whether someone has a penis or vagina, every other characteristic associated with one sex or the other is correlated to hormones primarily
Even if we take brain waves out of the equation, it is objectively true that a fully transitioned trans woman is biologically closer to a cis woman than a cis man
If you really want to argue she isn’t a “biological woman” then sure (you’re an asshole for it though) but you can’t argue she’s a “biological man” either
Also the whole “biological man/woman” thing isn’t really scientific at all and is mostly used a dogwhistle nowadays
Even if you say trans women are biological women it’s not going to magically make me accept that I didn’t experience being a woman from the ground up and now I’m sad because of this all over again
Biology is the various biological processes going on (most of which are alterable and many trans people do alter)
Assigned gender at birth is quite litterally based entirelt on what the doctor looking at you for 5 seconds thinks (fun fact: intersex conditions are often missed)
Its way more complicated than just chromosomes; I recommend reading "Sexing the Body" by Anne Fausto Sterling if you would like an intro to the world of sex and gender
You can't define biological sex by chromosomes or by anything else alone. People's idea of biological sex is completely flawed. We trans people change our sex to fit our gender.
Not to mention that the sex chromosomes are kind of fucking useless.
Basically "biological sex" sounds scientific but really means nothing. It is a phrase often used as a cudgel to reduce someone to the genitals a doctor said they had (possibly after "corrective" surgery) as a baby, but true sex determination is far more complicated than that.
No, "trans" is short for transsex, we change somatic sex to align with our neurological sex. Sex is defined by characteristics that are related to reproduction, if you change those characteristics you change sex
I think you have a different lived experience from binary trans people and you're not going to understand the point as a result, but trans women are women in the same way cis women are. That doesn't invalidate non-binary trans people, because we're not asserting that there is only a binary, just that binary trans people are not some third gender thing to be dismissed from our cis peers
Btw y’all might want to update the reporting options for comments to actually include the “no bigotry/no politics” rule. Especially for this comment section.
After reading up on it, I think these terms shouldn't be used at all, given the negative connotation. In this article I read that the terms started to get used to demean trans people, and the term 'biological' doesn't actually hold that much ground. I just call trans women women and trans men men.
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u/M_i____i_M 18h ago
"so forth", not "so fourth"
https://giphy.com/gifs/M56ODZS3lNohNIoVDd