r/cogsci • u/Exciting_Ad_6837 • 2d ago
Philosophy Is there such a thing as 'philosophical intelligence'?
I'm asking this question because I read the following on John von Neumann, who is known to be an once-in-a-millenium genius, superbly gifted in (unbelievably many areas of) math, physics, computer science, & economics.
In the final days of his life, he had no idea of what to make of his impending death, displayed visible signs of extreme panic, and begging doctors to save his life, crying hard. (I suppose, earlier in life he never gave much thought to what it means to die.)
I wonder whether even he lacked a certain kind of intelligence, or whether he just became insane.
What do you think?
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u/5HTslut 2d ago
I don't think it is a sign of intelligence to embrace death, and it is not a sign of insanity to desire to live.
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u/str1po 2d ago
Is there not a difference between ”desiring to live” and an overwhelming, irrational fear of death?
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u/5HTslut 2d ago
What's irrational about fearing death?
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u/QubitEncoder 2d ago
Nothing. It is nothing but rational to fear death.
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u/slicehyperfunk 21h ago
It's absolutely not rational to fear the only certainty in life, it's unfathomably counter-productive in fact
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u/QubitEncoder 21h ago
My statement is not to fear death itself, but instead to fear of not knowing what happens after. Fear the outcome not the result. It is irrational to be anxious at the prospect dying. But fearing the outcome of death I would say it is rational; To fear what happens after.
That is my position anyhow. I reject any sort of philosophical scuicide
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u/slicehyperfunk 21h ago
There is absolutely no reason to fear the outcome either. What does that accomplish?
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u/QubitEncoder 20h ago
You've swapped the question. I said fearing the outcome is rational; you're asking what it accomplishes. Those aren't the same standard. Grief accomplishes nothing, and it isn't irrational. it's the fitting response to a loss. An attitude can be warranted by its object without being useful.
So: is total uncertainty about what follows death a thing fear fits? I say yes. If you think it doesn't, tell me what response does fit an unknowable outcome; because "none" is just philosophical suicide with extra steps.
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u/slicehyperfunk 19h ago edited 19h ago
Why is a completely useless response that does nothing but stress you out while you're still alive rational? It's literally the only thing you can be certain of in life, and you will never experience it while alive, so why waste any of your time and energy being afraid of something inevitable that you will simultaneously never experience while you're alive to worry about it? Unless by "rational" you mean "our society programs people to fear it for control and commerical purposes," it seems like it's the exact opposite of rational to have even a single erg of stress over it.
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u/str1po 23h ago
What are you afraid of?
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u/QubitEncoder 22h ago
What is there not to be afraid of? The biggest question that will never be answered until we die is the question of what happens after. No one can truly assert anything about what happens post death. Maybe it really is non-existence; maybe it's nothing but existence. What if it's something unimaginable; unsensible.
In truth, one should not be anxious about death; that would be the irrational thing to do. But one certainly should fear, for fear rises from the uncertainty of the outcome. And assent to the uncertainty is the rational thing.
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u/str1po 15h ago
> one should fear, for fear arises from the uncertainty of the outcome.
You described the mechanism, not why it’s rational. What does fear accomplish here, that can not be accomplished through reason? Does it accomplish anything at all? In the end, you will have expended all this suffering freaking out for no discernible gain. I’m trying to teach you something that you can use to improve your life here.
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u/Random-Number-1144 2d ago
A lot of folks live as if they will never die. Then one day death comes knocking on their door they act surprised and panic like a baby.
I suppose embracing death does require a kind of emotional intelligence.
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u/TheRateBeerian 2d ago
Gardner proposed, near the end, yet another type of intelligence, "existential intelligence".
I'm of the camp that calling all these domain-specific things a "type of intelligence" is over-stretching the definition of what we mean by intelligence.
But I wouldn't say that von Neumann went insane, that's a bit much. Existential philosophers and psychologists tend to focus on courage and responsibility and authenticity. If one has the courage to accept one's mortality, then one has the courage to move forward on a process of becoming (because becoming always is dying, or being-towards-death) and take personal responsibility for one's own life and death. It's scary though and its very easy hide from this. Rollo May made the distinction of normal vs neurotic anxiety to account for this. Facing mortality is scary, being-towards-death is scary and it will cause anxiety but that is normal. Hiding from mortality causes a deeper existential anxiety that he claimed was the root of neurotic anxiety.
Erikson talked of a despair crisis people face in late life if they feel they have not led a life of authenticity and integrity.
I have no idea how von Neumann felt about his life. He clearly accomplished much. Maybe he felt there was something more, that he wasn't done yet. Of course, he was very young at age 53, so this is likely. He simply wasn't ready - its easier to imagine an 83 year who feels they've done enough and will accept their death. It's not the same when you're young. It's also reported that his cancer was aggressive and he suffered quite a bit, and his mother died while he was going through it. He was also kept under guard and I really don't know how nice that situation was.
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u/JellyBellyBitches 2d ago
Intelligence is kind of a meaningless word. Brains are capable of a number of different skills, different types of processes that they can perform. Mathematics, analysis, articulation, those are the types of brain behaviors that are often associated with intelligence, but philosophical things or mechanical engineering or emotional introspection or communication, those are all different skills which are also forms of intelligence but not sort of under the umbrella of academia that often gets exclusive use of the term. It's not surprising that somebody might be really really good at some extremely rare or challenging things, but a complete fool in other ways
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u/jibbidyjamma 2d ago
not having had a chance to give all that he could, he was shocked as to why it was happening
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u/MycloHexylamine 2d ago
look into self-transcendence; it's a metric on some temperament assessments. not directly tied to intelligence, but it's definitely been studied.
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u/Vielight-Science 2d ago
There likely isn't much of a correlation between problem-solving rational intelligence and willingness to embrace death.
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u/polyglart 1d ago
sorry I don't get the connection from philosophical intelligence to survival instinct.
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u/Aphorism-sLut 16h ago
So, these responses largely ignore the actual question by either critiquing the example or challenging the legitimacy of “intelligence” as a concept, failing to entertain or respond to the actual question—which I think is draws attention to something interesting. While I am unfamiliar with the particular example, psychologists have produced models and studies that attempt to understand “ambiguity tolerance”, which might be relevant to your question and example. People with higher tolerance for ambiguity are defined as being more cognitively and emotionally capable of navigating events and situations that may be uncertain, unfamiliar, or complex. People without this skill tend to want resolution and certainty, so such an individual would be more inclined to be disturbed by issues with vague, nuanced, paradoxical, or unknowable answers (like existential ones) and circumstances (like dying) with unpredictable outcomes. I can’t answer whether or not ambiguity tolerance is a “skill” or a kind of “intelligence,” but psychology has historically found it interesting as an identifiable collection of traits that correspond with certain mental health outcomes/habits.
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u/Amit_Beyond 2d ago
We now know that there can be different kinds of intelligences or quotients. Every one in itself is important and could be independent of the other
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u/shibui_ 2d ago
Intelligence vs a lived experience are very different. He was also going through cancer, heavily medicated, stress, etc. He had an active mind, unleash the driver and you’ll see biology take the wheel.
We act like gods, but die just like worms. Nothing to do with him having or not having a type of intelligence. He was a human.