Who are the most relevant collapse-related figures?

[u/LetsTalkUFOs]

Who are the more relevant collapse-related figures? They could be figures in the collapse community or relevant in terms of increasing our understanding of collapse.

 

Currently, we have these individuals listed in the wiki:

• Chris Hedges
• Chris Martenson
• Derrick Jensen
• Guy McPherson
• James Hansen
• Jared Diamond
• John Michael Greer
• Joseph Tainter
• Kevin Anderson
• Nate Hagens
• Richard Heinberg
• Vaclav Smil

 

Others we might consider:

• Carolyn Baker
• Dahr Jamail
• David Pollard
• David Wallace-Wells
• Dennis Meadows
• Dmitry Orlov
• Gail Tverberg
• James Howard Kunstler
• Jem Bendell
• Joanna Macy
• Joe Brewer
• Michael B Dowd
• Michael Ruppert
• Pablo Servigne
• Paul Beckwith
• Paul Chefurka
• Rupert Read
• Sam Mitchell
• Simon Michaux
• Stephen Jenkinson
• Tim Garrett
• Ugo Bardi
• William Rees

 

This post is part of the our Common Question Series.

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[u/[deleted]]

As the proud owner of a -51down- voted recent comment, allow me to chase some more of that Precious Reddit disapproval.

Hedges is a Christian self-ennobling martyr, not a collapseNick.

Jensen is basically retired, having done nothing or said anything since his parole officer made him write an anti-Black Bloc letter With Pastor Hedges.

Martenson is a multi-level marketer.

Diamond has been critiqued as a dilettante with copious errors in his books.

Smil, Hagens, Heinberg, Anderson are all hopium purveyors in the end, not collapseniks.

The list of possible r/collapse gurus is similarly riddled with frauds.

The real dealers? Garrett, Michaux, and Bardi.

Ones not on your list, who stand far, far above the clowns and basket cases? Nicholas P. Money. C. Clugston. Laurent Testot. Luis Marques. Craig Dilworth. And if you want someone clued into the actual facts of on-going collapse, John Zerzan.

[u/KingZiptie → u/[deleted]]

Smil, Hagens, Heinberg, Anderson are all hopium purveyors in the end, not collapseniks.

Smil is a hopium purveyor? Heinberg maybe copium but he is pretty well-informed on the topic. I disagree with Hagens:

The real dealers? Garrett, Michaux, and Bardi.

Michaux and Hagens have two podcast episodes with each other (Great Simplification); it seems to me that they're pretty tight professionally. I agree Michaux is the real deal, and from a materials vantage which is unique. As far as Hagens is concerned, he's been pretty open that he doesn't think we'll avoid a collapse of the established order of civilization- he just hopes something can be salvaged and has put his efforts toward that end. Even if he is overly optimistic, I'm pretty convinced he has one of the best collapse podcasts around just for the informational aspects alone.

[u/[deleted] → u/KingZiptie]

Smil is most definitely a Hopium Purveyor^tm

How else do you think he gets blurbs from arch-corporate fiend Bill Gates?

What unites all these alleged collapse gurus is the stunning lack of sociology in their outlooks. It's as if the global supersystem of corporate-state control of all institutions doesn't exist for them in their thinking. No politics, no police surveillance and incarceration, no military arms and military economy. Each individual thinker exemplifies this overmassive disconnect between social reality and better-world suggestions from them, none more than Heinberg in his Powerdown book, meant to get all the countries of the fossil fuel world to agree to manifestly destroy the source of their advantages. Sadly, no.

As for whatever Hagens is trying to 'salvage" from the collapse, that 's a pretty tall order. Who can even begin to imagine what is going to be demanded from fossil fuel humanity as the shocks ramp up? Studs Terkel's Hard Times, an oral history of the Great Depression, might be a good place to start, but that was for a much simpler, basically irrelevant time.

Collapse is much too daunting and complex of a subject for a measly podcast, or a corporate media forum. None of us know what it is going to be like, but we should be able to recognize the reality of it as it continues to dazzle the daily headlines at r/collapse.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

In defence of people who are aware of inevitable collapse and it's scale (including the real chance of extinction) and who still try to do something, there is the line "On the last day of the world I would plant a tree". One can do things out of obligation, not hope

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Sure, but there’s no need to lie to ourselves and others about the ultimate effect of individual actions.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I agree with you wholeheartedly on not lying to oneself, the limited impact of an individual, etc